Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

I have no HR Zone 2...
Quote | Reply
Hey Team -

So, a few posts ago I asked about recovering HR mid-training. Yesterday I had another experience/experiment to try and do a zone-type run. My run was supposed to be 20-30min in Z2. I decided I was going to try to control some variables and went to the gym to run on the treadmill. I also took my phone and used the peloton app to do a HRZ run - 20 mins.

Well, 2 observations came out of this. One, to me there's almost no such thing as quick recovery. There were calls in this run to go from 'almost z3 to z1 for recovery' while still running. Obviously the speed necessarily came down, but lowering HR was the point of the recovery interval was the point - which I just can't do. Not sure what that's about.

Second thing; I can't stay in Z2 to save my life. I can walk, briskly, at the top end of Z1, but if I increase the speed of the treadmill enough to actually shuffle/jog, I'm almost immediately in the top end of Z2. Now, that said - my output ability in Z3 is pretty wide. I can shuffle at Z3 all day, and I can run all the way up to 8mph and settle in without breaking Z4.

Last thing I'll say; there's a very possible answer to this - my cardio just sucks. I'm OK with that, it just seems weird because my minimal-level running effort shouldn't require Z3 bpm, I wouldn't think...

M
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [m_hoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
How did you set your zones?

https://www.strava.com/athletes/23685202
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [TriRugby] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I used my peloton. My max is 185.
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [m_hoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
m_hoop wrote:
.....

Last thing I'll say; there's a very possible answer to this - my cardio just sucks. I'm OK with that, it just seems weird because my minimal-level running effort shouldn't require Z3 bpm, I wouldn't think...

M


I know it is not nice to hear,... but it is true. If you want to improve your cardio with running, stop focusing on zone running. Otherwise you will never really run, if you want to start with Z2.

When you're out of shape there is no way you can run and be in Z2. Because if you can run and be in Z2 your are not out of shape.

I hope you fixed your zones. Because in one of your previous threads you said you have Z2 with HR ~137-147 if i remember right.

Some basic HR zones should be (based on your max):
Z1: 50%-60% = 93 - 111
Z2: 60%-70% = 111 - 130
Z3: 70%-80% = 130 - 148
Z4: 80%-90% = 148 - 167
Z5: 90%-100% = 167 - 185

I was rounding it up, that's why 50% HR is 93 and not 92.5.

Don't stop when you're tired. Stop when you're done.

- D. Goggins

Last edited by: PinaMan: Aug 3, 19 6:13
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [m_hoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You can just ditch HR for RPE as well. Run at a conversational pace for what is supposed to be zone 2. Can't talk? Slow down. It will improve with time and experience.
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [RoostBooster] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RoostBooster wrote:
You can just ditch HR for RPE as well. Run at a conversational pace for what is supposed to be zone 2. Can't talk? Slow down. It will improve with time and experience.

+1

And don't expect some big improvements in a week or two. Unless you're super human / athlete, just out of shape.

Don't stop when you're tired. Stop when you're done.

- D. Goggins

Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [PinaMan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm supposing this is a not-in-cardio-shape-yet issue, as is discussed.

But, worth noting; I literally never warm up. I'm a time crunched kind of person and if I ever actually do warm up it's extremely short. Not sure if that's a thing..
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [PinaMan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PinaMan wrote:
m_hoop wrote:
.....

Last thing I'll say; there's a very possible answer to this - my cardio just sucks. I'm OK with that, it just seems weird because my minimal-level running effort shouldn't require Z3 bpm, I wouldn't think...

M


I know it is not nice to hear,... but it is true. If you want to improve your cardio with running, stop focusing on zone running. Otherwise you will never really run, if you want to start with Z2.

When you're out of shape there is no way you can run and be in Z2. Because if you can run and be in Z2 your are not out of shape.

I hope you fixed your zones. Because in one of your previous threads you said you have Z2 with HR ~137-147 if i remember right.

Some basic HR zones should be (based on your max):
Z1: 50%-60% = 93 - 111
Z2: 60%-70% = 111 - 130
Z3: 70%-80% = 130 - 148
Z4: 80%-90% = 148 - 167
Z5: 90%-100% = 167 - 185

I was rounding it up, that's why 50% HR is 93 and not 92.5.


I always use Friels zone calculator. If I'm not mistaken zone two for me is 142 at the top end. And I'm 40 years old with a max heart rate of 182.

if I'm looking at that correctly that would put me squarely in zone 3 on your chart. Hmmmm. Makes me wonder if I should slow down more
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [m_hoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You need to get in better running shape.

Start by using a running pace calculator like Jack Daniels VDot calculator. Do a 5K race simulation to get your VDOT and go from there.

Don’t rush it. Building run resilience takes time. Thinks months not weeks.
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Zone running, pace running.... is all BS if you're out of shape and didn't run before.

Sitting in front of computer and calculating pace or looking at zones looks nice and easy. But when you get out there and reality hits you, then you wonder WTF just happened.

Like RoostBooster said. Go out there and run with pace you feel ok. And if for some reason you want to increase your pace a bit during running, do it. But checking zones and pace when starting to get in shape, will only mess with you (i'm not in zone,.. behind my pace,.. etc.).

Don't stop when you're tired. Stop when you're done.

- D. Goggins

Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fishbum wrote:
PinaMan wrote:
m_hoop wrote:
.....

Last thing I'll say; there's a very possible answer to this - my cardio just sucks. I'm OK with that, it just seems weird because my minimal-level running effort shouldn't require Z3 bpm, I wouldn't think...

M


I know it is not nice to hear,... but it is true. If you want to improve your cardio with running, stop focusing on zone running. Otherwise you will never really run, if you want to start with Z2.

When you're out of shape there is no way you can run and be in Z2. Because if you can run and be in Z2 your are not out of shape.

I hope you fixed your zones. Because in one of your previous threads you said you have Z2 with HR ~137-147 if i remember right.

Some basic HR zones should be (based on your max):
Z1: 50%-60% = 93 - 111
Z2: 60%-70% = 111 - 130
Z3: 70%-80% = 130 - 148
Z4: 80%-90% = 148 - 167
Z5: 90%-100% = 167 - 185

I was rounding it up, that's why 50% HR is 93 and not 92.5.





I always use Friels zone calculator. If I'm not mistaken zone two for me is 142 at the top end. And I'm 40 years old with a max heart rate of 182.

if I'm looking at that correctly that would put me squarely in zone 3 on your chart. Hmmmm. Makes me wonder if I should slow down more


Those are some funky zones. I use the norwegian federation zones and z2 is 72 to 82% of max. Trying to run below 70% of max hr is pretty hard, except if you are really fit.
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [Bioteknik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Some basic HR zones should be (based on your max):


Those are Polar and Garmin HR zones. Might be funky,.. but what is your Z5 then? 150%? Unless your zones have extremely small differences.

So a lot of you going over your 100% max HR every time you train in Z5? Totally makes sense. :)

Don't stop when you're tired. Stop when you're done.

- D. Goggins

Last edited by: PinaMan: Aug 3, 19 11:22
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [PinaMan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PinaMan wrote:
Quote:
Some basic HR zones should be (based on your max):


Those are Polar and Garmin HR zones. Might be funky,.. but what is your Z5 then? 150%? Unless your zones have extremely small differences.

So a lot of you going over your 100% max HR every time you train in Z5? Totally makes sense. :)


No, zone 5 is >92% they aren't specifically my zones, but are designed to match up with a lactate profile or other physiological markers. Not perfect of course and will have individual differences, but a lot of people's threshold hr is about 90% of their max so zone 4 is 87 to 92 %.
Last edited by: Bioteknik: Aug 3, 19 14:11
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [m_hoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Did you determine that 185 through testing or a math formula?
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [m_hoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
m_hoop wrote:
I used my peloton. My max is 185.
Was this on the bike? Often you’ll see bike MHRs to be up to 5 bpm lower than running.

There’s lots of great advice in this thread. RPE is probably better until you build up a deep enough base. Then when your fitness stabilizes and you’re able to analyze trends, you’ll be able to properly define your zones and start to use that to structure your training if you find it valuable.

_____________________________________________________
George Dedopoulos | @geodee | geodee.com | Team Atomica | Toronto Triathlon Club
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [geodee] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There is no such thing as “ZONE 2.” There is only zone 2 as defined by whatever methodology you’re following. I personally use Matt Fitzgerald’s zones, which are close to Friel’s. It took me about a year of heart rate training to realize that zone 2 has no universal definition, and can often mean completely different things.

For example, my zone 2 under friel/Fitzgerald (my max is also 185) is a zone 4 in that chart above. I run all the time at 145-150 and feel almost as if I’m walking. That said, I can run at 115-120 as well (very slowly).

This calculator will compare a bunch of different methods to give you an idea: http://www.fitdigits.com/...eart-rate-zones.html
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [m_hoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
m_hoop wrote:
I used my peloton. My max is 185.

Is that^^^^^ one of those bike things??????? Bike HR and Run HR are two different animals.
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [m_hoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Before jumping to conclusions, how are you measuring your HR and do you trust the measurement?
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [m_hoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Be patient and very consistent and your pace in Z2 will improve for years. Frankly, when starting out or if you are an elite runner, z2 running should be a huge % of your training time.
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [DBF] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
To answer everyone -

Actually, pause - thanks for the great responses. I appreciate it.

Unpause - I calculated my HR zones with straight online tools. Age, resting HR, etc.

Worth noting that I find it muuuuch easier to maintain Z2 on the bike (peloton).
Quote Reply
Re: I have no HR Zone 2... [m_hoop] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
m_hoop wrote:
To answer everyone -

Actually, pause - thanks for the great responses. I appreciate it.

Unpause - I calculated my HR zones with straight online tools. Age, resting HR, etc.

Worth noting that I find it muuuuch easier to maintain Z2 on the bike (peloton).


Online tools get you in the ball park sometimes. You need to do a test to figure out YOUR numbers. A bike test and run test. Both HR zones will be different: Hint (the tests suck and if you threw up at the end you did it right).
Quote Reply