Classic! : )

Sorry to interrupt, but this looks very interesting.

My data is the following:

My Current Weight: 70.2 Kg
Bike weight (with PCs and PT powermeter): 10,2 Kg
Weight of other equipment (clothes, shoes, helmet, waterbottle, spare tub, punt) 1,4 Kg aprox
Grade of La Morcuera (taking out the first 870 meters which are almost flat): 7.8%
Distance covered: 8.870 m.
Time: 28 min 38 sec.

What is the power for this ride? Where do you calculate this? I am very interested in having a programme that calculates power from this data.

http://analyticcycling.com/ForcesSpeed_Page.html

Putting in your total weight as 83kg, this gives a time of 29:09 for the climb (8800m @ 7.8% grade), using the stock CdA. So pretty much exactly what you rode.

The big difference is that your weight is 70kg, as opposed to 62kg, or even 64kg, which is what had been presented here. 5.11w/kg is vastly different from 5.77w/kg (same power if you weighed 62kg). At a weight of 70kg, your power numbers make a lot of sense.

From the first post by KendallF "...at a body weight of 62k."

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I didn't weigh him either. ;-)

Who knew all of the equipment I needed to bring along on this trip...now where'd the damn monkey get off to...

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Kendall Frederick

Orange Park, FL

It wasn't your fault. 62 or 64 kg (one of the two) was the weight that Frank presented way back in the Liar, Liar thread. So I'm sure that's where you got that number from...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Thanks you much. The web page looks really interesting.

My current wight is above 70 kilos (over here we are in the middle of the off season). By springtime, when the reces start, I reach something around 66-67 kilos.

My recing bike is a Colnago Extreme power, with Full carbon wheels, and campagnolo Record grouppo. It weights 6.8 kilos sharp.

So accorthing to that page I should be able to do something like 26'50" by springtime. That's great! And if my doctor is right, when I peak in the middle of the racing season I am supposed to do something close to 25 minutes! Well at least I'll try!

Interestingly enough, plug in my total weight (me + bike) of 94 kg, estimate my power at 285 watts, and I come up with just shy of 41 minutes. It's 12:15 AM here and I'm playing with cycling geek calculators and I'm riding in the morning. At least the time changes over here and I get an extra hour's sleep.

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Kendall Frederick

Orange Park, FL

Well...something doesn't compute anyway with the % grades and distances between what he's saying and what Alvaro posted. If I add on the 870m he says are basically flat, that ends up with a distance of 9.74 km (not 9.2 km like in Alvaro's post) and a grade of 7.1% (not 6.9%). Now do you guys see why an altitude sensor in a power meter is so valuable? ;-)

Oh yeah...speaking of powermeters, where is that power file???

A couple of other things don't make sense. Does that Cannondale really weigh 22.4 lbs? I've got an old steel Bianchi (with steel fork) that weighs that much.

(BTW, 67kg matches what you get from his VO2max values taken from the Pez article...I was using the 62kg number as well...)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Using what distance and what grade?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Quick question...have you ever tested the torque output of your PT hub? As described here:

http://midweekclub.ca/powerFAQ.htm#Q23

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Tom, do you have a life? I'm picturing you sitting in a cubicle somewhere, papers meticulously stacked parallel to the desk's edge, mumbling about your stapler like the guy in "Office Space"...

I was using 8.87km and 7.8%, gave myself an effective frontal area of .6 (I'm not a small guy).

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Kendall Frederick

Orange Park, FL

Aha! So YOU took my red swingline!!!

Seriously, as I sit here at home on a gloomy Saturday sipping my home made latte and contemplating what design to carve into my Halloween pumpkin, I was just wondering what values you used so that it's all clear what we're talking about.

IMO, half of the problem in these types of discussions is that people aren't accurate and/or specific enough in what they write.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Yeah, but who knows where the climb starts. I find that people often take different times for a climb because they start at different places. Perhaps Joaquin time for the climb is just the climb part. I dunno.

A Cannondale with PT hub, two full bottles, and spares (not sure if he counted spares or not in that weight) could weigh 22lbs easily. Though maybe there is generous rounding! ;)

Anyway, at least things are starting to become more pedestrian in terms of w/kg...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

If you had the power file you could calculate the elevation gain.

True dat ;-)

Aye...but there's the rub. That would require the file, now wouldn't it?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Sorry joaquin, but I dont get it... from the brown sign at the miraflores-canecia crossing wich says 'Puerto de la Morcuera Abierto' to the sign at the summit which says the Altitude (1796m) I've consistently meassured 9,2km, which is exactly what the climb meassures in www.altimetrias.net, so if you take off 870m it doesn't meassure 8870m.

the % i've always obtained from my polar is 6,9%, and in altimetrias page it says its 6,77% the first km is 4%, I dont know if getting it out would result in 7,8% someone else will have to do the math, anyway, length, inclination or both, dont match....

I cant post the link, once in the homepage, you have to go to 'Listado por Comunidades' on the left, slightly above half screen, then go to 'Madrid' on the right, slightly below half listing, and finaly to 'Morcuera por Miraflores de la Sierra'

using that data, I have climbed in 29m16, with 75kg total weight, 309w and using 0,75 FA (I spend a lot of time out of the saddle when climbing) it comes quite close

Frontal Area 0.75 m2 Coefficient Wind Drag 0.50 dimensionless Air Density 1.056 kg/m3 Weight 75.0 kg Coefficient of Rolling 0.004 dimensionless Grade 0.069 decimal Wind Resistance 5.4 kg m/s2 Rolling Resistance 2.9 kg m/s2 Slope Force 50.7 kg m/s2 Cadence 100. rev/min Crank Length 170. mm Pedal Speed 1.78 m/s Average Pedal Force 174.0 kg m/s2 Effective Pedaling Range 70. degree Effective Pedal Force 447.5 kg m/s2 Speed 5.24 m/s Power 309.8 watts

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This is how the interval looks like. Please let me know if anybody is interested in getting a copy of the original file, and I will send it via email.

The summary of the data is:
Duration: 00h 28 min 38 sec
Norm Power: 362
Min Max Avg
Power 160 571 359
Cadence 55 100 78
Speed 14.3 21.7 18.6
Heart rate 121 186 182

I do not know why I read 358 Watts avg when I finished cimbing, and when I downloaded the file it shows avg power 359 Watts

BTW My training bike is a CAD4 white cannondale with PowerCranks, PowerTap wheels, Dura Ace 9 sp, and I carry 1 water bottle, 1 spare tubular (with cage), 1 pump, a Lazzer Helmet, sidi genius4 shoes, sunglasses, and I was wearing winter clothing (including globes and rain jacket), plus mobile phone, car & home keys...

Hello Alvaro,

do you live nearby Madrid? Instead of waisting our time exchanging messages, why don't we meet and do the climb together. I am sure you will enjoy it and you will check personally where I start taking time and where I finish the climb. And if you want we can invite Antonio Alix who I am sure will be very much interested in witnessing the climb. Let me know when this fits in your training programme and I will adjust to your needs.

See you soon

Joaquín

I just wrote a long reply and it vanished when I posted it...

that would be cool, I'm not trying to say you are lying, just to make sense of the numbers posted, maybe you are using really bad tires...

I'll talk to my coach and to Antonio, lets hope the weather holds for a while

Great! Please email me when you are ready

This is excellent....a good old fashioned ST Hillclimb smackdown...Madrid Edition!!! Throw in Powercranks and Powertaps and you have everything that is important or unimportant on ST :-)

Oh, I've helped write about 11 grant applications over the last 4 months, so I've got a reasonably good idea of how expensive it would be. Mostly, I just wanted to see how Frank would respond.

In all honesty, I'd like to see ANY independent data where the data analysis was performed by a- someone without an agenda (but to be safe let's say the researcher doesn't know who is in the PC/non-PC group), b- someone who wasn't a subject in the trial themselves. I've been training for a short time for triathlon, but a long time for track and field, and I think very few people are good at identifying which aspects of their training cause fitness gains. Which is why I like data...

-Dave

Yes, independent testing and some research data would be nice but who is going to pay for it? I can see a decent study costing $100K easily. I just don't see anybody having an interest in funding that kind of study. Frank is not making enough money on powercranks to shell out that kind of dough and there is no other group with that much of an interest in getting that data.

This is not a problem that is unique to powercranks though. Lots of products out there that have not been validated with research. How about Spinscan (computrainer)? Actually, validating that one would not cost too much money....

Mike

Using your 6.9% number for 9.2 kms, if the first km @ 4% is removed, that would make the rest of the climb an average of 7.3%. Using the altimetrias numbers of 6.77% for 9.2 km, leaving out the first km would result in an average grade of 7.1% for the remainder.

You're right...something doesn't match up.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

So, how did I do?

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks