Brandon, you are welcome. I always love to save folks money and from going to the dark side.

I would much rather continue to be honest with what I do, and what I think. I have nothing to hide.
And, I have no problem finding out I am wrong. But, I do have a lot more respect for folks who are
willing to try new things in life. Since sport is all about fun, and new things to try. Why some get
so so hung up on they could "lose" something. What is there really to "lose".
I bet on your death bed if you were to say I got brain washed, tried PC's, they did not work and it ruined
the rest of my life, that would be ..... Or, I got brain washed, tried PC's, and they actually "worked" for me.
Is either case going to really make any difference? I just know I enjoy being the type of person who
is never will to accept the status quo. Life would be very very boring if I was just a lemming.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

"Just for fun, see if you can do five posts in a row without using the word ' I '."

Or "me", my", etc. He uses those just as ineffectively and often. :-)

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

Again why? I love to be different.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

"I have nothing to hide"

That's VERY clear with as often as you use the word "I"

"I have no problem finding out I am wrong"

No? Well you're wrong in saying PC's made you faster for sure, since you have no idea. Did they make you faster? Maybe, but we don't know since you changed too much in your training to KNOW.

"But, I do have a lot more respect for folks who are willing to try new things in life"

Are you implying I don't try new things? If so, you're WAY off base.

"Since sport is all about fun, and new things to try"

Interesting, I've never heard sport defined as "new things to try".

"Why some get so so hung up on they could "lose" something. What is there really to "lose""

Because we don't want to waste our money, we are hung up on it? How about this: you buy me a set, I'll ride the hell out of them, then if I don't like them I'll send them back. If I do, I'll pay you. That reduces the possible loses of PC's by one. And I've already (as have others) told you what there is to lose, stop asking that question.

"I bet on your death bed if you were to say I got brain washed, tried PC's, they did not work and it ruined the rest of my life, that would be ..... Or, I got brain washed, tried PC's, and they actually "worked" for me."

You're nuts if you think I'll be talking about anything triathlon related on my death bed, not to mention PC related. Let me also mention that neither of those sentences make sense. Luckily, I've learned how to read "Dave".

"Is either case going to really make any difference?"

Yes, one case leaves me $1k poorer.

"I just know I enjoy being the type of person who is never will to accept the status quo"

Nor have I. But that doesn't mean I rebel for the sake of rebelling.

"Life would be very very boring if I was just a lemming"

And this has what to do with PC's again? How many thousands of set has Frank sold? Trust me Dave, you aren't breaking any new ground by getting them. In fact, I think you are MORE of a lemming by trying them because people like Dev say they work. You have yet to do (from what I can tell) and honest assessment of their usefulness. Crap, you ARE a lemming...go follow the other PC users off the cliff Dave, blindly following what they say, because if Dev claims they work and are kept in his training schedule they must work for you!

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

Off the cliff I go.....................

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

It is possible to suggest certain outcomes or theories from anecdotal reports but it is not possible to "prove" anything using anecdotal reports. You will find that very little that is discussed here at this forum has ever been proven despite the fact that people believe in the product or technique deeply.
Corrupted
adj 1: containing errors or alterations; "a corrupt text"; "spoke a
corrupted version of the language" [syn: corrupt]
2: ruined in character or quality [syn: debased, vitiated]

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Considering your extraordinary claims, the above standard to which you hold yourself, and your product, really speaks volumes. So does the fact that Joaquin's story is still on your website.



Phooey.

The only thing that bothers me about this is the personal attacks on Joaquin. While the corruption of the file may seem to be deliberate to many of you there is no proof that this occurred. The file is clearly corrupted but corruption can come about through both error or manipulation. There seems to be a great amount of glee associated with demaining the person here, probably simply because he has spoken positively about my product. The purpose of this "test" was simply to "prove" he was capable of doing what he said he was capable of doing. The file is useless to this purpose. The observation of the witness who started this thread also supported this contention. Why on earth would someone take a great deal of effort to modify a file to show what they are doing anyhow (or close thereto)? The motivation to manipulate the file makes no sense to me and there is no proof it occurred so I support someone who is, imho, being "unfairly" pilloried because he is seen as being somehow associated with me.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Until there is some evidence to suggest that his claims are false I think we will let them stand. He does have a series of testing done by an experienced third party to support his story. This one "corrupted" file does little to suggest the whole story is false. Is the doctor made up? I don't think so. Has the doctor denied running the tests or that the test results do not reflect what was done? I don't think so. We are doing some stuff to independently verify things because of the controversy, like having him tested at another center. If that testing shows a substantial inconsistency I would probably remove it. I won't do so just because of your suspicions. What on earth do you know?

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

It's funny--the manipulation makes plenty of sense to others. But, as I said earlier, we're all out to get you........

The fact that something makes sense to people, even lots of people, does not make it true. Just like many here believe that training with a power meter is more effective than training without one. It may be true but their belief that it is true does not make it so. Until there is proof, there is doubt.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I have to agree with you. Until there is PROVEN data, I would think removing any comments from the website
would be the correct thing to do at the moment.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

ok, just a thought.
you say that there isnt any evidence to prove that they work so to you that means they dont. i cant think of any single thing that is proved to make you faster can you, does that mean nothing is gonna help you?

at the opposite end of it can you think of anything that proves they dont work?

impossible to put improvment or lack of it down to one thing. Training with PCs is just as likley to make you 2 or 20mph quicker than training with anything else

Frank, why do you so feverishly pimp your product here? I mean seriously, do you even have a life aside from these forums?

You know, I'm sure that powercranks could be a useful training tool akin to single legged pedalling (not that I've ever done that in all my years of cycling). But you come and put forth nutty claims of massive improvements with no evidence whatsoever over.and.over.again. Why? Because of the ridiculous price tag, that's why. Most people won't pay that much for a marginal training aid and so you need to push your device as literally the holy grail of triathlon training. Sorry, but most reasonable people want evidence over blind faith in the pusher of some gimmick.

When a pretty damning piece of evidence comes forth in this thread (and data manipulation is VERY BAD), you do your best to obfuscate the conversation away. What you should be doing is removing all association with Joaquin, assuming that only you two had access to that manipulated file. Not doing so only reduces your credibility further, if that is even possible.

One thing I'd like to see is just one photo of a pro cyclist out training on powercranks. A real training photo -- not just posing with them as (most likely) part of the deal to receive a free set from you.

there is/was a whole pro team that trained on them i believe, just cant remember who. Will try to find out.

" there is/was a whole pro team that trained on them i believe, just cant remember who. Will try to find out"

You're right, but I don't remember what team either. I wonder why this team didn't win the TdF though? I mean, a team full of CAT 1 guys getting a 40% increase in power should put them off the charts! ;-)

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

how many people have to gain 40% for the quote to be true??

zipp say 30sec in a 40kn TT for thier wheel, ive tryed it and so have many others and has anyone gone 30sec faster??

for me to go 30sec's faster would be a hugh increase in power proberly not short of the 40%gain PC claim. Rmur could proberly work out how much extra power i would need as he has my data

"how many people have to gain 40% for the quote to be true??"

Let's look at the claim: first, Frank says "most increase cycling speed 2-3 mph (that is about 40% in increased cycling power)", so if we need a number, that would be "most". Second, it's not a number of people we are looking for to make the claim true. We are looking for the evidence behind the claim (that isn't corrupt/manipulated) that proves PC's do what Frank says. So far, he's had a tough time producing that information.

"zipp say 30sec in a 40kn TT for thier wheel, ive tryed it and so have many others and has anyone gone 30sec faster??"

I don't know, you tell me. 30 seconds faster that what? A set of box-shaped rims? On foot? I need more information on their claim. Although, I've never bought a pair of Zipps and probably never will. This whole thing bugs me because I almost bought a pair of PC's on Frank's claim.

And for God's sake man, check your spelling/grammar. Mine surely isn't perfect, but wow....

"for me to go 30sec's faster would be a hugh increase in power proberly not short of the 40%gain PC claim"

Then get PC's and take those 30 sec off your time, we'll call it a day.

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

so if i got a set and went 30sec's faster would it just be down to the cranks, or could it be that maybe a did a bit more training, changed my position a bit, did less training so was better rested, faster day, better diet, the list goes on. Impossible to pin down just the one thing that made the difference, BUT if you think that PCs are the reason then they are, simple. If you ride your bike more because youve spent the money on them and what to make sure you get your moneys worth and you go faster then its still the cranks that have done it because they gave you the reason to train.

Just like all the aero kit you buy, how much of it is the fact its areo and how much it is your head telling you that you will be quicker now. Amazing how putting a new set of wheels or a new pair of bars on your bike enables you to put out a few more watts the first time out with them

Tell you what, if you don't trust your ability to judge the worth of these in 3 months, for an extra $100 I will give you a 12 month money back guarantee. That still puts our price at less than a CT and it will still be an unconditional guarantee, no need to keep track of anything.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Or, you can do all that training and not see the improvement you wanted then all you have is an opportunity lost. Life is filled with tough decisions.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks