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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
1. There are no glaring inconsistencies. I said there would be glaring inconsistencies IF YOU CHANGED ONLY THE POWER NUMBERS BY 16%. THAT IS NOT WHAT WAS DONE TO THIS FILE. DOES IT MAKE IT EASIER TO UNDERSTAND IF I TYPE IN ALL CAPS SINCE YOU SEEM TO HAVE TROUBLE WITH BASIC COMPREHENSION OF WHAT PEOPLE ARE WRITING.

2. THE FILE DOES NOT SHOW THE CORRECT DISTANCE IN THE CORRECT TIME. IT SHOWS A GLARING ERROR BETWEEN THE speed*time DISTANCE AND THE distance-recorded DISTANCE. THAT IS THE MOST DAMNING BIT OF EVIDENCE, SINCE THAT PROBLEM DOESN'T SHOW UP ANYWHERE ELSE.

3. "Now why someone who is trying to make his power numbers look "better" would manipulate the speed numbers, when they cannot be used to compute the power, is beyond me." BECAUSE THE CLIMB IS A KNOWN DISTANCE AND DURATION. IF HE DID THE CLIMB IN 35:00, THEN IT WOULD BE OBVIOUS HIS POWER WASN'T 355, SINCE THAT WOULD BE ABSURDLY SLOW.

4. "
It would be incredibly easy, without changing one other thing in the file and no one would be able to know. Earlier in this thread it was determined that for this distance and his weight at the time that the power number of 355 was reasonable. Here is what Rappster wrote in post 53 of this thread: " EXACTLY. YOU JUST DON'T GET IT. IN ORDER TO LIE ABOUT POWER OVER A GIVEN CLIMB, YOU NEED TO FUDGE THE POWER AND THE SPEED (OR THE DISTANCE).

Simply put, Frank, you just don't get it. It really does take a certain amount of power to make it up La Morcuera in 29:00. So if you are trying to fake a climb up La Morcuera, then you need to fake power and speed (or power and distance/time). The point was not simply to make a file that showed a 30min effort @ 355w, which would easier (though still not easy) to fake. It was to show a climb up La Morceura at a given pace (i.e. a given time for the distance) and a given power.
Look at the file. Column A is minutes, B torque, C speed, D watts, E distance, F cadence, and G HR. If you look at the data in columns A and E he did 8+ km in just over 29 minutes or something. If you go to analytic cycling and calculate the power required to do that on that climb at his stated weight on that day it turns out to be almost exactly what the average wattage was for this period found in column D. What is inconsistent is the data in column C, which says he actually went faster. To go faster would have required substantially more power than registered in column d. So, this problem with the data makes the data suspect but it does not indicate that Joaquin manipulated the data to make it look like he rode up the mountain faster than he did. It simply means the data is corrupted. If he manipulated it in such a fashion one would have to ask why because it is better than he is claiming.

In Reply To:
You just don't get it. Everything about the file is wrong. If it only took 300 watts to climb La Morcuera in 29:00, then yes, you could simply bump the power number up and get the file you were looking for. But, since it takes more power than that, you can't simply modify the power numbers.

Let's make it simple. I go ride a 40k TT. It takes me 60min at 300watts. I lie and tell everyone I did it in 53:00 at 375watts. I can't just bump up the power number from my file. \
You could bump up the power but it wouldn't change your time, it would simply make it look like you aren't very aero. There is no indication that the power numbers have been manipulated because they are confirmed by analyticcycling.com, assuming the weight and aerodynamic assumptions are correct

In Reply To:
EVERYTHING IS WRONG. That is what you don't get. The only reason the file says he climbed 8.whatever km in 29:whatever is because someone changed it to say that. They had to change everything, because no part of the file supported the claim that is being made.
No, some things are wrong. Everything is not wrong.

In Reply To:

EVERYTHING ABOUT THE FILE FOR THE CLIMB IS FALSE. Given that the rest of the file is totally normal, that implies that someone doctored the file.

IS THIS CLEAR???????????????????????????????????????


I have analyzed the file and everything is not abnormal in the climb data. If one takes the torque and multiplies it by the speed and then devides it by the wattage for each interval one gets a conversion factor. This is normally pretty close to 0.81 before the climb but there are instances of "substantial" deviation in this data as well, for instance time 0.273 has a ratio of .794 and time 2.604 has a ratio of .783 and time 3.528 has a ratio of .730. So, the numbers in the other parts of the file are not "totally normal" as you assert. However, during the climb this ratio is all over the place being sometimes over 1 and sometimes as low as .6. We know the speed numbers, on average are well off. But, they are off in a direction that would make his power numbers even higher than they are. We don't know about the other numbers. Well, as I stated above, it is not possible for some things in the file to be normal and EVERYTHING in the file to be false. There are inconsistencies in the data that do not make any sense. Therefore, this data should not be trusted. So, now you can choose to believe his time or not. I suspect I know what you will choose even though you were not there. Next time why don't you show up and climb with him, if you can, so you can expose him for the fraud you think he is. Kendall made his observation. You can make yours next time.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [KendallF] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Kendall. It was also very nice for me to ride with you up La Morcuera. And I do also exist. Did you receive my file the same day we did the climb? Did you look at it? Is it the same data these people are discussing about? (I cannot open the file posted in the forum, since I do not have my Cycling Peaks software installed in my office computer)

Are you coming back in December to Madrid?

I hope to see you soon. Enjoy Thanksgiving!
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]There is no indication that the power numbers have been manipulated because they are confirmed by analyticcycling.com, assuming the weight and aerodynamic assumptions are correct[/reply]

Of course there are indications that the power numbers have been manipulated. Along with the rest of the file. the number for analyticcycling may provide a reasonable approximation (assuming that the profile of the climb, rolling resistance, and whole host of other variables are correct). Power, speed, distance, and time have all been manipulated. I don't see why you fail to grasp this. That was my point about trying to fudge, for example, a 40k TT. You can't just change ONE set of parameters. You need to change power, and speed, and time. The problem is that faking all of this is very hard. It's hard to fake the file so that it all adds up. As you are seeing.

[reply]
Next time why don't you show up and climb with him, if you can, so you can expose him for the fraud you think he is. Kendall made his observation. You can make yours next time.[/reply]

Well, whenever I go do IM Lanzarote, which will be at some point in the next couple years, I'll be sure to add Madrid to my list of stopping points on the way home. Of course, if you want to start up a collection to fly me over to Spain, I'd be happy to race Joaquin up his climb. Or you can fly him out to Dan's, and I'll race him up to Wrightwood.

I also never accused Joaquin of being a fraud. I merely accused the file (if you can accuse an inanimate object, or collection of bytes) of being fraudulent. There are certainly plenty of indications that the file is deliberately fraudulent, rather than corrupted. But you keep ignoring them.

The problem is that, as you often seem to do, you are taking for granted that any of the claims made are true. There is no proof that Joaquin rode the whole climb in the time he specified. None. So why do you keep assuming that is a truism?

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
Last edited by: Rappstar: Nov 21, 07 15:13
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [brandonecpt] [ In reply to ]
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First, some has suggested it would come back bad, who what would that give folks.

Second, I thought I heard Joaquin say there was at least one person who ALREADY is there, was supposed to meet
and ride, but never showed up.

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Now, I continue to ask this question. I read all the time that folks should do one legged drills on the bike. So, what is the reason for this?
I assume there is a good reason, so I just get one legged drills, 2 at a time, all the time on the PC's.
Sometimes in the pool, I use a pull buoy, or paddles, or a kickboard, or fins, or I do stroke drills. Does that mean I should do them all the time?

Sometimes when I run, I do high knees, or butt kickers, or pull backs, or shuttles. Does that mean I should do them all the time?

(playing the devil's advocate here....)

by comparing single leg drills with swimming and running drills, are you implying:

a) Single Leg Drills are valuable to use for drilling purposes but not for full time use
b) drilling is useful for swimming and running but not for cycling
b) drilling is useless but folks still do them anyway

note: My assumption that you agree with Dave in that PCs and single leg drills are essentially used for the same purpose (and hence PCs/Single leg drills are interchangeable above) could of course be wrong...

-----------------------------------------------
www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [brandonecpt] [ In reply to ]
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On my CT, I only road it Ergomode. Never kept data. I did notice I was getting my power up. When I first started, I was doing like 220.
Towards the end I was able to hold 270 for like 20 minutes. Thats as much as I remember.
Again, I have not seen anything to say I have or had gotten faster on the bike because of the PC's. Longer cranks on the hills, YEP.

Now, I just ran my 2.33 loop again. Just set another PB by 1 second. So, I am clearly seeing riding the PC's, with faster running, no question.
And, at my age, I will take it.

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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I have to admit, I sure wish I had a PM starting a year ago when I changed the cranks, and now the PC's.
But, oh well, just have time data on the same course. Faster running. No real change on bike times.

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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" First, some has suggested it would come back bad, who what would that give folks."

Huh? I don't understand this sentence.

"
Second, I thought I heard Joaquin say there was at least one person who ALREADY is there, was supposed to meet and ride, but never showed up"

Who? Is this person there now? If not, then sending the CPU would be MUCH easier.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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"No real change on bike times"

This is going in my sig line...


--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [brandonecpt] [ In reply to ]
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What can I say, I am honest from what I have seen so far, and heard from some others.
But, you need to add more to your tag line, I HAVE seen real change in my run times, or do you
only take part of paragraphs?

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I quoted what you said ;-)

I'm just messing with you Dave, calm down.

And yes, I only quote parts of paragraphs from you, because a number of your sentences don't make sense.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Frank,

I am back home now. Almost time to go to bed. I have opened the file with Cycling Peaks and it certainly looks quite strange. Fortunatelly enough I keep all the data in the PT CPU since I have not cleared it yet. I think the best thing to do is sending the unit to Saris for them to check since I have already sent it to them three times before. It doesn't look like a corrupted file (during the race I did in August I experienced many data drops, which is not the case now). But the numbers look like the unit or the hub got crazy. Thats why I never take the PT data (or even the cateye or polar data) as reliable for my improvement. The best inidcator is the time it takes me climbing La Morcuera or my doctor's VO2 Max test.

I remember Kendall was coming back to Madrid before Christmast, and Alvaro, who I do not know, lives in Madrid. I have started training again on the bike and I was planning to do some hill climbs with my team in the next few weeks. I think that it won't be difficoult to meet Alvaro and Kendall with my teammates and do a climb altogether. I will agree with Alvaro the starting point and the finish line, so it fits exactly with La Morcuera gradient that is publicly available (which is from the centre of Miraflores town up to the La Morcuera sign stating 1.780 m above sea level). We can take a scale to weight ourselves and our bikes and equipment, and I will be sure to use a new chain, new tires, which will be inflated to 125 psi. And then take time, and calculate the Power. This is something cheap and feasible to do. And I guess it should be gathered as a real proof, as people over here like to say (I never wanted to proof anything to anybody, specially when almost nobody train with powermeters over here and none of my team mates know the meaning of climbing at 330 or 370 watts; they just know if they ride faster or not; a good Pro rider over here can do La Morcuera climb in about 25,5 minutes, and I guess Alvaro agees with what I say)

But even with all this, nobody here will believe the result. Still it will be a fun ride to do. But I will never again state anything here. If Alvaro or Kendall want to state the results it is up to them.

Joaquin
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [donm] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
The simplest explanation for what happened is that the file was doctored. Anything else would have to involve a series of fantastically unlikely coincidences. Wouldn't you agree that the most likely explanation is that the file was tampered with?

The following point has already been made, but you've thus far failed to address it. If this were, as you suggest, the result of a malfunctioning PT, what are the odds that:

1. Only the data relating to the climb in question were affected by the malfunction; and
2. The data were affected in such a way as to exactly support the claim made by the "victim" of the malfunction; and
3. The data were affected in a way that is consistent with a botched attempt to fake a PT file (e.g. repeating identical numerical sequences consistent with a "cut-and-paste" approach, etc)?

Seriously, ask yourself what the above question, and see if you still want to try to defend the position that it's just an innocent malfunction.
No, I disagree with your assertions. While 1 is essentially correct, similar problems exist throughout the file, they are only more frequent and larger during the climb.

Regarding #2, the errors are such to actually inflate the claims even greater than his claimed average of 358 watts. If he were to ride an extra 1 km in the same time with the same elevation gain his power most assuredly would be over 400 watts.

3. If this were an attempt to make a fake PT file it was indeed botched. However, the fact remains he did climb the mountain as witnessed by Kendall and the file supports he did it in the time that analyticcycling says would take about 350 watts.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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Did you actually look at the sections of the file that I posted earlier? Did you actually look at the raw data? Did you see the constant repeating patterns?

Your refusal to take a critical look at the file speaks volumes to the conformation bias that you exhibit with respect to every anecdote and piece of 'evidence' regarding your product. I think pretty much everyone here sees that except for you.

Since I know you're thinking about your argument/response before you even finish reading this sentence, I'd implore you to give pause and think a little more on the issue--and give some thought to the possibility that your own passion for your product clouds how you interpret things related to it.
Quote Reply
Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [joaco21] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Hello Frank,

I am back home now. Almost time to go to bed. I have opened the file with Cycling Peaks and it certainly looks quite strange. Fortunatelly enough I keep all the data in the PT CPU since I have not cleared it yet. I think the best thing to do is sending the unit to Saris for them to check since I have already sent it to them three times before. It doesn't look like a corrupted file (during the race I did in August I experienced many data drops, which is not the case now). But the numbers look like the unit or the hub got crazy. Thats why I never take the PT data (or even the cateye or polar data) as reliable for my improvement. The best inidcator is the time it takes me climbing La Morcuera or my doctor's VO2 Max test.

I remember Kendall was coming back to Madrid before Christmast, and Alvaro, who I do not know, lives in Madrid. I have started training again on the bike and I was planning to do some hill climbs with my team in the next few weeks. I think that it won't be difficoult to meet Alvaro and Kendall with my teammates and do a climb altogether. I will agree with Alvaro the starting point and the finish line, so it fits exactly with La Morcuera gradient that is publicly available (which is from the centre of Miraflores town up to the La Morcuera sign stating 1.780 m above sea level). We can take a scale to weight ourselves and our bikes and equipment, and I will be sure to use a new chain, new tires, which will be inflated to 125 psi. And then take time, and calculate the Power. This is something cheap and feasible to do. And I guess it should be gathered as a real proof, as people over here like to say (I never wanted to proof anything to anybody, specially when almost nobody train with powermeters over here and none of my team mates know the meaning of climbing at 330 or 370 watts; they just know if they ride faster or not; a good Pro rider over here can do La Morcuera climb in about 25,5 minutes, and I guess Alvaro agees with what I say)

But even with all this, nobody here will believe the result. Still it will be a fun ride to do. But I will never again state anything here. If Alvaro or Kendall want to state the results it is up to them.

Joaquin
If the only abnormality in your file were the HR, which looks much too regular and repeating for a biological system, I would have said there was some sort of electrical interference. Perhaps those other repeating sequences everyone seems fixated on as proof of a cut and paste manipulation are coming from the "same" electrical interference.

Someone asked here why I believe you. Well, I try to believe everything I am told unless I have a reason to not believe it. You have never given me a reason to not believe anything you have told me. The inconsistencies in this file are indeed strange but deliberate manipulation makes no sense.

Did I read your response to Kendall that you gave him a copy of the data file at the time you did the ride?

Frank

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [brandonecpt] [ In reply to ]
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Thats fair.

Yes, my writing takes an engineers brain to understand. Smile

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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"I try to believe everything I am told unless I have a reason to not believe it"

That explains A LOT. You really aren't a scientist. Think if scientists really thought this way....we'd never learn ANYTHING.

"
The inconsistencies in this file are indeed strange but deliberate manipulation makes no sense"

To you. It seems to make A LOT of sense to everyone else.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [roady] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Did you actually look at the sections of the file that I posted earlier? Did you actually look at the raw data? Did you see the constant repeating patterns?

Your refusal to take a critical look at the file speaks volumes to the conformation bias that you exhibit with respect to every anecdote and piece of 'evidence' regarding your product. I think pretty much everyone here sees that except for you.

Since I know you're thinking about your argument/response before you even finish reading this sentence, I'd implore you to give pause and think a little more on the issue--and give some thought to the possibility that your own passion for your product clouds how you interpret things related to it.
While repeating data could be from a cut and paste manipulation of a data file. It could also be from an electrical interference pattern from some repeating outside source when the data was collected. If one only fixes on one potential answer one may miss the correct answer. I don't know what happened to this file but deliberate manipulation and faking doesn't make much sense to me for already stated reasons.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
Quote Reply
Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [t2k] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Now, I continue to ask this question. I read all the time that folks should do one legged drills on the bike. So, what is the reason for this?
I assume there is a good reason, so I just get one legged drills, 2 at a time, all the time on the PC's.
Sometimes in the pool, I use a pull buoy, or paddles, or a kickboard, or fins, or I do stroke drills. Does that mean I should do them all the time?

Sometimes when I run, I do high knees, or butt kickers, or pull backs, or shuttles. Does that mean I should do them all the time?

(playing the devil's advocate here....)

by comparing single leg drills with swimming and running drills, are you implying:

a) Single Leg Drills are valuable to use for drilling purposes but not for full time use
b) drilling is useful for swimming and running but not for cycling
b) drilling is useless but folks still do them anyway

note: My assumption that you agree with Dave in that PCs and single leg drills are essentially used for the same purpose (and hence PCs/Single leg drills are interchangeable above) could of course be wrong...
No, I am challenging the assumption that it is good to do a drill "all the time," as you are forced to do with powercranks, which are constant "one-legged drills" (sort of).

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [brandonecpt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Brandon, what would be cool is if someone took my data points from my bike loop and run course.
I can then say when I made changes on longer cranks and PC's. Then, the experts can see
if the data shows a change in control limits. I talked to our stats guy at work to do this with me,
but decided, why invest the effort when I would told all the data was messed with anyways. Smile

If someone wants to loan me a PMer, I would be willing to put it on the bike(s) and gather some PM data.

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]
the file supports he did it in the time that analyticcycling says would take about 350 watts.[/reply]

You keep saying this, but this is not actually the case.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
Quote Reply
Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [brandonecpt] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
"I try to believe everything I am told unless I have a reason to not believe it"

That explains A LOT. You really aren't a scientist. Think if scientists really thought this way....we'd never learn ANYTHING.

"
The inconsistencies in this file are indeed strange but deliberate manipulation makes no sense"

To you. It seems to make A LOT of sense to everyone else.
Well, as a physician, one is taught to listen to the patient. Medicine is both an art and a science. Sometimes the patient tells you the answer when the laboratory data is inconsistent if one will simply listen to what they are saying. Sometimes a patient will tell you they are in pain to get drugs. Other times they tell you they are in pain because they are in pain. There is no test for pain so what is a doctor to do. I chose to believe my patients and occasionally those who were lying would reveal themselves in other ways with time. Most, I believe, were telling the truth. The better doctors, I believe, tend to believe their patients although looking for secondary gain issues are always a possibility. That is the art of medicine, not the science. I see no secondary gain potential here to suggest lying is a reasonable possibility. Just my training I guess.

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
[reply]
the file supports he did it in the time that analyticcycling says would take about 350 watts.[/reply]

You keep saying this, but this is not actually the case.
It's not? What time does the file say it took him to cover the distance? Or, what is the time for interval 1 and what is the distance covered as logged (not as calculated by the average speed)?

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Frank.

Indeed if I had a reason to manipulate things (and spend all the time I would need to do so) I would surely chose a much simpler way as I suggested before: I would ask one of my teammates who are stronger than me, and let him my PT wheel, and send over his file.
Since I do not try to demonstrate anything, then there are inconsistncies. Because when someone wants o manipulate something for any purpose I think he would take care to do it in an unnoticeable way.

So again if someone witnesses a ride, or if I do a race, or if I send 2 years of PT files, or If I ride again with more witnesses, it doesn't matter. I am no one to advice you, but here, in this forum, I think you lose your time. None of my teammates who are now willing to use PowerCranks have ever heard of this forum at all. But the have all seen my improvements. And they do not now if my improvement was 10%, 20% or 40%; if it was my FTP, or my anaerobic power; they do not care. They just think the results they saw deserve trying Powercranks.

But people here are really crazy.

Joaquin

PS Kendall PM me and he said that neither he received the file the day I sent it out. But the file was probably the same. I told him the results I saw on my CPU when I met him after he finished the climb. Maybe the number were not right. I told you I thought that the weight difference was the explanation for the fact that even if my time was 1 minute off my PB my power was up.But maybe the power number was not right. But again 28 minutes 38 secs for La Morcuera during the off season is excellent for me (I used to ride up La Morcuera in 33-34 minutes during winter rides before). (Kendall told me his FTP was 280 Watts , and he did more than 40 minutes up La Morcuera, being his weight above 80 kilos.)

I am not peaking now for the racing season. I will do so in February/March. And I will take my time up La Morcuera then.
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Re: I got my ass beat by Joaquin riding his Powercranks up La Morcuera with a Powertap [Frank Day] [ In reply to ]
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A few points:

1. Joaquin isn't your "patient" and you're not treating him.
2. "Sometimes a patient will tell you they are in pain to get drugs". I don't think that applies here either
3. "
I chose to believe my patients and occasionally those who were lying would reveal themselves in other ways with time". Which seems to be the case here.
4. "
I see no secondary gain potential here to suggest lying is a reasonable possibility". There is our underlying problem. Someone "called out" Joaquin in a previous thread. If someone called me a "liar", even in jest, I'd want to prove them wrong. If I had made statements about how strong I was, and someone called me on those, I'd sure as hell want to prove them wrong and myself right. Now, in the off chance that I claimed I was stronger than I actually was, and someone called me a "liar" on that claim I'd be doing something, anything, to redeem myself.

Now, if your training leads you in the way you say, "I believe everything I am told unless I have a reason to not believe it" truly removes you from the possibility of being a scientist.


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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08
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