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I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me?
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/...-cyclist-BANNED.html

Seriously? This is what people study now? Does anybody here want to be called "people who ride bikes?"
Last edited by: Rothman: Mar 29, 19 13:04
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [Rothman] [ In reply to ]
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You do realize why they are suggesting that right?

This is a scary stat from that study:

The study found that one in five drivers deliberately blocked cyclists on roads, while one in ten admitted to using their car to cut off a cyclist.

-USAT L2 coach, M.S. Exercise Physiology
https://www.instagram.com/alloutmultisport
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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I did read the article and then post it, so yes I do realize why they are suggesting that.
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [Rothman] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Rothman and All,

Yes ..... and if it will cut down the 'people who ride bikes' kill rate ..... let's use those words or similar ..... words count ....

We can probably use some other word or words that are a little more catchy .... but signify a fellow human

For instance use 'Crash' not 'Accident' .... crash implies responsibility, cause, and cure.

https://www.bicycling.com/...-aggressive-drivers/

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [Rothman] [ In reply to ]
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Are you complaining at the suggestion of the name or the info they found and thus the "reason" why they want to not call us "cyclists"?

ETA: Take out what we should or shouldn't be called and look at the stats of that study....it's beyond stupid and seriously scary how drivers see and behave towards cyclists/people on bikes/whatever we are to be called.

-USAT L2 coach, M.S. Exercise Physiology
https://www.instagram.com/alloutmultisport
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Mar 29, 19 13:34
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [Rothman] [ In reply to ]
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When you call people by just one name, you forget that they are a multifaceted human as well. Sure I'm a cyclist. I'm also a dad, a son, a CAR DRIVER, a husband, an IT worker, a basketball fan, I like M&Ms, burritos, don't like tomatoes... I ride a bike, but I also drive(n) a Nissan Xterra, Ford F-150, Honda Element, 2 volvos, Civic, Prelude, Crown Vic station wagon, and a Rodeo. People need to think and wake the F up when labeling others just one thing.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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The suggestion of the name is ridiculous.
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [Rothman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm more pissed off at the actual findings of the study rather than the suggested name change. I wont ride alone and I tell my athletes not too anymore. Just too dangerous, and yes our group of 5-7 could get ran over in a week from now in a group, but atleast we are doing everything we can to ride safely. I have garmin radar that links up to all the athletes in the group that has a garmin edge, so that's been a pretty cool "mcgyver" trick that lets us all know of traffic patterns while on the road.

-USAT L2 coach, M.S. Exercise Physiology
https://www.instagram.com/alloutmultisport
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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I wasn't going to get into this as I was just posting an article for Friday afternoon reading when my mind wanted to check out for the weekend. I cycle in Chicago everyday. I live less than a mile from the loop. Drivers can be bad but "people who ride bikes" are PART the reason drivers are angry. It doesn't matter what you call them when not a day goes by that I don't see a "people who ride bikes" run a red light / stop sign, ride the wrong way on a one way street, weave through traffic, alternate between sidewalk and street and cut off pedestrians. We all need to obey the rules of the road. The article did point out that the biggest thing that could be done is improve infrastructure and I agree 100%. Chicago has built hundreds of miles of bike lanes and new traffic signals specifically designed for "people who ride bikes." Biking on those roads are significantly safer than the alternative. I don't ride on country roads and quite honestly that scares the shit out of me so I can't speak to that.
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [Rothman] [ In reply to ]
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I totally agree they should stop calling us cyclists. I think a better term is "Upstanding and Prominent Family Man Riding His Bike Safely"
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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My outside rides are on road with not much traffic, but they are high speed and no shoulder. How much is that Garmin Radar setup and how good is it? My biggest problem is needing to swerve more into the lane because of a hole, rock, or roadkill and not being to tell if a car is coming up behind me at 70 mph because I'm riding into a headwind and can't hear it soon enough.
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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I believe it's ~$300. Is it going to alert you that your about to get run over....Yep . Is it going to stop said car from running you over...nope . Will it visually alert said driver of your presence..YEP with LED flashing light.

But it's completely changed how I ride. To be honest with you it has my "back" in terms of I never look over my shoulder anymore at the traffic. I hear the beep, know traffic is coming and we "ride smart" (IE dont swerve in traffic). Some on here will say it's worthless, but for me it's a game changer in that I actually feel "safe". But again is that little device going to save me from a distracted driver? No but nothing will. So I take a risk every day, and I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to likely get hit. I always ride in the pack of the group to call out stuff and I also cant pull through with the athletes that we ride in a group with. So I'm the first line of defense pretty much exclusively in our team rides, IF I'm not sagging the ride with my vehicle.

The garmin radar will know how fast a car is coming and lights up according to their speed. Red means they are going I believe 45mph or faster. Under 45 it's orange when it lights up and shows on the display (as well as any edge garmin if you link it).


There are some on ST that will tell you the radar is full of shit. I'll tell you the opposite and that we use it very skillful with our group rides. Of course we only ride in the "country" or atleast ride through the city to get out of the city. If you live in the city and ride in the city it would likely drive you crazy with beeping all the time...but city riding is already full of cars.

So I'm a fan of it. I have generation 1, but the 2nd generation "beeps" and flashes on it's on small head unit. Generation 1 only flashes, no beep noise. But it connects to edge garmins that allow the beep. We listen for the beep, we dont look at the unit flashing the car is coming up. We know if we hear the beep, ~3s later a car will be on our 6.

ETA: I also added an LED helmet to the back of my helmet since last weekend. 2 flashing annoying red LED lights I hope will help get me home every night....I can only hope. But as I was just bumped by an completely distracted driver not 3 months ago, imo it's only time before I'm hit (if bad will be 3rd time)- just hope I dont die from it.

-USAT L2 coach, M.S. Exercise Physiology
https://www.instagram.com/alloutmultisport
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Mar 29, 19 15:02
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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This is why I’m doing a metric century on zwift in the morning instead of getting out on the roads.
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [Terryh] [ In reply to ]
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Terryh wrote:
I totally agree they should stop calling us cyclists. I think a better term is "Upstanding and Prominent Family Man Riding His Bike Safely"

Or "Could be your neighbor or kid's school teacher or carrying a gun or all three"
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I'm a big fan of putting a blinky light as high up as possible, like on the back of your helmet. The feds mandated that high-center brake light on cars years ago because it works way better.

I just watched DC Rainmaker's video on the radar and he said exactly what you said - Some people that haven't tried it might poo-poo it. But everybody that has tried it said it's a game changer. I think I know what my next bike gadget purchase is. Thanks!

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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The radar seems like a good idea, but it's on the wrong vehicle. Should be in the car, with the beeping and visual indicator in the car. Some cars are going in this direction (being able to distinguish, in radar, between bikes and cars).
Last edited by: trail: Mar 30, 19 7:23
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Which cars/radar have the technology to only distinguish a bike or car. I don't think that technology is readily available at a *reasonable* price. So what you would then have is with the current setup, if it was in the car it would literally beep nearly every second you drove in your car cus it can't currently distinguish between bike vs car. And if you gave drivers the option to turn it on/off, they would never turn it on.

But yes your idea is correct. The drivers need the alert. I just dont think we have the technology *yet* that is availble within car v bike, that wouldn't also affect their daily commute or while speeding down the highway.

ETA: I'm sure by 2057 when every vehicle has QR codes that can communicate with one another and it can easily distinguish a biker vs a car ahead, it'll actually be a great tool. Of course by then no one will be riding on the roads as all the cyclists will be scared off or only riding in the weekly group rides. I'm getting ready for Zwift triathlons here in the next 20 years...Gotta pay the bills somehow as a coach in endurance sports.

-USAT L2 coach, M.S. Exercise Physiology
https://www.instagram.com/alloutmultisport
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Mar 30, 19 7:47
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Yea I don't see why there couldn't be a small chip or tag that is sown into a cycling jersey, shorts, etc that can be used to by the car radar to detect a cyclist. I'm thinking similar to RECCO reflectors that ski patrol use for avalanche recovery. They are sewn into your ski jacket and pants and you don't even know they are there. If it is a doable option then the car would be able to recognize a cyclist over the natural environment (or car) because of the reflective signal coming from the tag.
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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Absolutely, we just don't currently have the setup for it. So yes it would absolutely help for the actual person that is *distracted* to be alerted of the obstacle. However, since we don't have that capability right now, I dont really think it's much value when discussing the capability of the radar in it's current capacity. IE- that's not a knock imo, cus that reality what yall are suggesting has a ton of hurdles to make a reality.

As I said it's helped me a ton, but people on ST have also thought it's a waste of time.

-USAT L2 coach, M.S. Exercise Physiology
https://www.instagram.com/alloutmultisport
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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cyclist.... drives car to bike ride.

person on bike. bikes from home to where ever... workout, grocery, etc.


http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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I think that capacity is down the road. You need every car to have radar/wireless communication capacity and every cyclist to then have the required transmitter. Likely more easier to just build into a bike or pedal on a bike but yes it could be built in to clothing.

I dont know the current capability of cars wireless transmitting communications currently. Maybe it's ready for that type of communications link? Idk. I just know that I dont think we have the current setup that in 6 months a car can communicate with a cyclists to alert the car of it's presence without also requiring the car to alert every other vehicle on the roads. Which at that point would be a total pain in the ass, and would never get implemented (even if likely a smart idea).

So you would need the ability for the car to *only* transmit with the cyclists, and that technology I dont think is ready.

-USAT L2 coach, M.S. Exercise Physiology
https://www.instagram.com/alloutmultisport
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [Rothman] [ In reply to ]
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"Driver" is also dehumanizing. They should be called "people who drive cars"
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [Rothman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm old enough to remember when the "N" word was in common everyday use by many people of all regions and social divisions. Very few would take any exception to its use and the inherent dehumanization it conferred. I'm not comparing the use of "cyclist" to "N" (please don't start an "it's not the same" reply thread) but I think anyone can use this example to see the huge difference that can be made by making a word generally unacceptable when it has a broadly unfavorable or undesirable connotation. Particularly when those unfavorable attitudes are often created and stoked by the actions of a small minority within the targeted group.
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [softrun] [ In reply to ]
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softrun wrote:
"Driver" is also dehumanizing. They should be called "people who drive cars"


This is true.
However, "peoples who drive cars" are rarely killed in crash with cycl... ahem ...."peoples who ride bikes"

But they can be killed by truck driver... ahem... "peoples who drive trucks"

Going up and down the road food chain, much more humanizing is necessary, indeed

#metooIrideabikesometime
Last edited by: Pyrenean Wolf: Apr 3, 19 2:26
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Re: I am a cyclist. Does that dehumanize me? [Rothman] [ In reply to ]
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Rothman wrote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/...-cyclist-BANNED.html

Seriously? This is what people study now? Does anybody here want to be called "people who ride bikes?"
I don't care what I'm called. I do care how I'm perceived, because that effects how I'm treated.

It's pretty well known that a person on a bike who's in a more upright position, in normal clothes, without a helmet or shades, especially a woman or child, is given more clearance and less abuse than helmeted, lycra clad male cyclists. I think there are two reasons. 1 - The perception is that they are "people" rather than "cyclists". i.e. the drivers identify with them as normal fellow humans just like their family and friends. 2 - There is a perception that they are more vulnerable since there is no helmet or other activity specific gear on display.

This is not just about assigning blame and saying it's ridiculous for drivers to act this way. It's a normal psychological trait. We categorise and discriminate as a matter of course. You do it too. Lack of education, a deficit of critical thinking and acceptance of social norms and knee jerk reactions all make this far more pervasive. Your analysis free criticism of the proposal is perhaps a sign that you're one of those prone to the very problem this seems aimed at mitigating ;)
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