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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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The whole religious/political protest thing likely came about as a result of the finish of the Olympic marathon in Rio (I forget the specifics whether it was a flag, an armband or a salute in that incident, but the jist was that ultimately the athlete had to seek asylum to not return home where there was a fair chance that he would be executed...)...

How the sexual orientation line item got amended into the rule this year I have no idea, other than that some could argue that in several countries it could indeed be a political statement. I know that since the political protest rule came in, there may have been incidents at races, where people have grabbed Pride flags or protest banners relating to sexual orientation crossing the finish line, that have led to some people in attendance pressure to have this rule applied. In the cases that I am aware of, the head referee did not issue a DSQ. In a discussion with a number of officials, there was not a unanimous consensus as to how the rule would apply to such cases, this uncertainty may have contributed to why this was explicitly included in the rule?

The arguments about colors on the race suit are moot, given ITU uniform rules, in order to get into the whole pride rainbow situation, it would literally have to be the countries official kit design (which if it were to happen, would be an incredibly fascinating situation to see whether the kit was or wasn't approved). Now in terms of sponsor logo spaces, with sponsors potentially being religious or politically minded groups, I have no idea what might happen here, currently the only logos that are banned are companies producing tobacco, spirits or products containing substances on the WADA banned list, so based on that, my guess would be nothing at the moment (the next revision will be after the Tokyo games in 2020, so it'll be interesting to see what happens between now and then). In terms of grabbing a flag at the finish, I personally see no issue with that (political protest banners relating to sexual orientation on the other hand are already covered by the prior rule), although could see the political protest angle on it if said race were in a country where it was illegal. It'll be interesting to see how this is applied in the coming season.

So I'm not sure that this rule actually changes that much. I can certainly see how the wording raises some eyebrows, but in terms of how things are officiated, I suspect very little will change. What the wording will do is provide some clarity to competition juries, should there be any decisions in races against this rule, and protests or appeals relating to them.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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you talking about this?

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-rio-summer-olympics/feyisa-lilesa-ethiopian-runner-makes-defiant-protest-gesture-rio-olympics-n635761

Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
So I'm not sure that this rule actually changes that much. I can certainly see how the wording raises some eyebrows, but in terms of how things are officiated, I suspect very little will change. What the wording will do is provide some clarity to competition juries, should there be any decisions in races against this rule, and protests or appeals relating to them.

in one sense, of course it won't change much, because there's nothing to change! other than this 1 case i point out, where has there been any case of a sexual orientation "progagandist" display that would fall under the purview of this rule? so, as well as i can tell, this rule take the 1 case of this in the ITU's 30 year history and reduces it to 0 cases. you're right. it won't change much. but in another way...

this rule will change everything. in a good way. here's my prediction: the ITU will walk this all the way back. but the "damage" is done, and we're going to see an outpouring of support for the LGBT community in triathlon. you watch. we'll see if i'm right.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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I actually only used rainbow flag in protest at one race. It was at the Raleigh 70.3 in 2016 because it was the height of the HB2 issue here in NC and I live here. I also had a newspaper article about my foundation that weekend and had high visibility at two races that weekend so I used it. Otherwise, my rainbow kit, rainbow Mohawk, rainbow tutu were all originally meant to represent EVERYONE I was racing for that was battling cancer. There are many colors used to represent different kinds of cancer and my foundation name is Dream In COLOR.... get it. I had nothing but praise all weekend from hundreds of athletes and folks everywhere I went and I helped educate and raise thousands of dollars that weekend and 100% went to family battling cancer. I also did not just grad the flag at finish line, I put it on as cape and tutu and wore during entire run, no outside assistance. Again, athletes and spectators loved it as it also entertained them from the normal look of racers in spandex. I also took thousands of photos with every Tom, Dick, and hairy and it wasn’t at a sex party at finish line. Heard soooo many cancer stories folks shared and it was an honor to be a becone of happiness and hope for them.
Now... again... the rainbow flag represents freedom, peace, and Love for ALL people straight and gay or whatever. It is not a political statement cuz being gay is not political. The gay community has used this symbol to welcome ALL folks and show people they are safe under it. I have been gay since born and have fought in this community since the eighties and NEVER have we thought of this flag as a political symbol. The heterosexuals have made it a political symbol.
Why add this to rule... should I shave my Mohawk now? What about my kit and rainbow tutu? What about my rainbow tattoo on my arm that might offend folks if I raise my arms at finish? Or my pink triangle tattoo on my arm that represents my fellow gays being executed in holocaust, yes we got pink triangle symbol by Hitler... What if I fart a rainbow at finish cuz I’ve been known to leave a rainbow trail everywhere I go?... I also shit skittles!
I really want to say thank you to Dan and the folks on here in support... I never expected to see this cuz it can be kinda harsh on here sometimes. I’ve always been proud to be in this sport because it’s so inclusive to everyone. You all ROCK and thanks for still making me feel like it does. It’s one of the only arenas I can be in where my being gay is not an issue cuz we are all just athletes and family in triathlon. For those that don’t understand, it’s okay, just keep turning your head when the Ironsissy runs by with his rainbows. I promise I won’t touch you and give you gay cooties... your it!
Last edited by: RUNNER86: Jan 21, 19 11:51
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RUNNER86] [ In reply to ]
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And yes I race in age group ITU races, Ironman races, and been to 3 ITU Duathlon Worlds. The race director and everyone at ITU Worlds in Zofingen where completely supportive of my look and interviewed me, and made we welcome all week. They had no problem with it, nor did my Team USA teammates, that I’m aware of, so why does a ITU all of a sudden.... bet if I go back to Zofingen it would still be non issue.
Last edited by: RUNNER86: Jan 21, 19 11:32
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]
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ecce-homo wrote:
It has not banned rainbow flags in particular. “Athletes will avoid displaying any kind of demonstration of political, religious, sexual orientation or racial propaganda.”

This means rainbow flags, but also homophobic flags, nazi flags, Ku Klux Klan flags, etc. Personally I think it makes sense.

Of course it makes sense. But the opportunity for an SJW click-bait title was just too much to turn down, apparently.

I don't care what you do with your genitalia; I suspect the vast majority of ITU race spectators agree with me. In fact, I watch sports specifically as a diversion from politics. You know what's never crossed my mind when someone crossed the finish line: "I wonder if that guy is gay?"

Because, as I said, I simply don't care and it has nothing to do with the activity at hand. Triathlon racing is a competition to see who can swim, bike, and run the fastest. There is no political activism portion of the race last time I checked. There are a billion and one ways to tell the world your sexual orientation/political affiliation/dietary choices/etc - how about during a race you just, ya know... race.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [rossi46] [ In reply to ]
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When will you get it.... being gay IS NOT POLITICAL.... you might think so but it’s a human not a policy... wake up... is being straight political?? Nor is the rainbow flag... it represents freedom, peace love and equality for all... which includes YOU. Think of it like the Olympic flag that represents ALL
Last edited by: RUNNER86: Jan 21, 19 12:10
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Replying to you because there's no "general" reply.

I keep using the word "status quo" and I believe the people who don't understand our point of view aren't internalizing how dramatically the status quo can change. Certain people are now talking about gay athletes being "obsessed with making a big deal about it". I can't imagine those same people using similar language in defense of segregated pools, bathrooms, restaurants, and water fountains, but half a century ago many people used very similar language abut that very thing. Was Rosa Parks "obsessed with sitting in the front of the bus, and not in a good way"? I doubt anyone would dare to say so on this forum today. Were the people who staged sit-ins at segregated restaurants "obsessed with where they ate, and not in a good way"? I again doubt anyone would say so now. Getting there (here) meant years and years of struggle and fight against those who thought the status quo at the time was ok.

That's what I (and I believe others including you) are saying is so important about this. Gay people should have fully equal rights. Not being a protected category should not be used as an excuse for why they're repressed or silenced (and that's exactly what this rule is, make no mistake), it should be a motivation for all the rest of us to help our LGBTQ friends, families, and strangers to get their rights enshrined equally into law. That means fighting, not accepting it as status quo or part of another culture.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RUNNER86] [ In reply to ]
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RUNNER86 wrote:
it represents freedom, peace love and equality for all...

I'm sorry, what?

And if you're going to deny that a flag has a political message then there's not much to discuss.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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Yeeper wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
Yeeper wrote:


So this whole thing is a bit of a double standard if its acceptable to suppress religious and political demonstrations but its oppressive if the LGBTQ can't. Why are their exceptions to the protected? <-- this is where I think most people scratch their heads.


one of these things is VERY different from the other two... think about it.


You're right, religion is the only federally protected class in that lineup. LGBTQ can be covered under Civil Rights Acts and Political affiliation discrimination is defensible legally as well. But religion is federally protected for us in the US.

If one is more protected than the others then I don't know that and I genuinely don't know how to tell that. Which is why I said that may be a different discussion. Im playing devil's advocate. Why should sexual orientation be given a free pass over religious or political statements? Thats what needs answering for people who don't see an issue with this rule change.

Being LGBTQ is immutable, being religious is not.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [rossi46] [ In reply to ]
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What don’t you understand... the rainbow flag IS NOT POLITICAL.... you want it to be and you want gay rights to be political... they are humans and born that way... so it’s a Humanity issue. Is the Olympic flag political?
And does a kid think a rainbow flag is political or means someone’s gay? Or the person who is straight with rainbow flag cuz they just like rainbows?
And if you don’t get it then you are right... get out of it and don’t discuss
Last edited by: RUNNER86: Jan 21, 19 12:32
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Well here's something interesting.
This is from the ITU website and is the official ITU competition rules
https://www.triathlon.org/uploads/docs/itusport_competition-rules_2019_%281%29.pdf (dated 25/11/18 in the text but 15/1/19 on link)
"Avoid displaying any kind of demonstration of political, religious or racial propaganda;"


and


https://www.triathlon.org/uploads/docs/itusport_competition-rules_2019.pdf (dated 25/11/18 in the text)
"Avoid displaying any kind of demonstration of political, religious, sexual orientation or racial propaganda;"

So there has potentially been a change since the outsports article, or that was uploaded in error. Not sure but the ITU rules as they show (including the November 18 changes) do not refer to sexual orientation.




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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [rossi46] [ In reply to ]
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rossi46 wrote:
ecce-homo wrote:
It has not banned rainbow flags in particular. “Athletes will avoid displaying any kind of demonstration of political, religious, sexual orientation or racial propaganda.”

This means rainbow flags, but also homophobic flags, nazi flags, Ku Klux Klan flags, etc. Personally I think it makes sense.


Of course it makes sense. But the opportunity for an SJW click-bait title was just too much to turn down, apparently.

I don't care what you do with your genitalia; I suspect the vast majority of ITU race spectators agree with me. In fact, I watch sports specifically as a diversion from politics. You know what's never crossed my mind when someone crossed the finish line: "I wonder if that guy is gay?"

Because, as I said, I simply don't care and it has nothing to do with the activity at hand. Triathlon racing is a competition to see who can swim, bike, and run the fastest. There is no political activism portion of the race last time I checked. There are a billion and one ways to tell the world your sexual orientation/political affiliation/dietary choices/etc - how about during a race you just, ya know... race.

The fact that you don't see, for example, female participation in the race and their outfits as political just means that it's about what you're comfortable with, not with it being "political". You are fine with the status quo, which includes (for you) not being forced to understand that a certain athlete is gay. In history much the same thing was said about black people, Jews, women, and a variety of other disenfranchised groups. Or did I miss the part where everyone was fine with Jackie Robinson playing baseball? Warren Moon being a quarterback? Kathy Switzer running Boston? Those were all "uppity <somethings> shoving it in my face" to people at the time.

I've spoken with people who are annoyed at "all the interracial couples in advertising - why do advertisers have to push this agenda?". In my peer group, it's downright common, not least with me and my wife. Is it a political statement if I hug her after a race? Why or why not?

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [rossi46] [ In reply to ]
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I also know a BIG race company that displays the rainbow flag along with all country flags from around the world at their races... is that a political statement or to let EVERYONE know they are included?
THANK YOU CHALLENGE FAMILY EVENTS AND RACE DIRECTORS
For including EVERYONE and especially for the extra attention and comfort you have given me personally at many of your races around the World!
Last edited by: RUNNER86: Jan 21, 19 13:54
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Toby] [ In reply to ]
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A lot of us are fine just doing a triathlon without being required to attend a political rally or an equal rights protest at the finish line. Can someone explain to me why I have to be made aware of someone’s sexual preference as they cross the finish line. It’s important to them but I could care less. I read the swimmer story on that website and he finally came out and guess what he learned....nobody really cared cause they already knew.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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But your MAGA bumper sticker makes it kinda hard
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Duncan74 wrote:
Well here's something interesting.
This is from the ITU website and is the official ITU competition rules
https://www.triathlon.org/uploads/docs/itusport_competition-rules_2019_%281%29.pdf (dated 25/11/18 in the text but 15/1/19 on link)
"Avoid displaying any kind of demonstration of political, religious or racial propaganda;"


and


https://www.triathlon.org/uploads/docs/itusport_competition-rules_2019.pdf (dated 25/11/18 in the text)
"Avoid displaying any kind of demonstration of political, religious, sexual orientation or racial propaganda;"

So there has potentially been a change since the outsports article, or that was uploaded in error. Not sure but the ITU rules as they show (including the November 18 changes) do not refer to sexual orientation.


Wow - it does look like they have removed it from their rules already. I navigated there from the home page (doesn't mean I don't trust you!) and yeah... it's gone.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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Gonefishin5555 wrote:
A lot of us are fine just doing a triathlon without being required to attend a political rally or an equal rights protest at the finish line. Can someone explain to me why I have to be made aware of someone’s sexual preference as they cross the finish line. It’s important to them but I could care less. I read the swimmer story on that website and he finally came out and guess what he learned....nobody really cared cause they already knew.

It's not about you. Read that again: it's not about you. It's so that other LGBTQ people realize they're not alone. You don't need to worry about it.

Also, your standards for "a political rally or an equal rights protest" are very low if a single person carrying a single flag for a minute reaches your threshold. Maybe try being less of a triggered snowflake in need of a safe space.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting there are no minutes from the conference or technical comittee either. Not suggesting that there's anything dodgy, just that they are a bit slack on that stuff! I guess normally this falls into the category of them struggling for the delegates to even read the stuff, let alone 'random' athletes wanting to delve into the discussions that happened in a sub-committee of the governing body.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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If this is true, I can’t tell you how relieved I am as a human, an athlete, and a gay person.
Please people can we stop making gays political... I really am a human just like you! Just cuz I like to chase hot men in wet spandex doesn’t mean I want you, I can appreciate beauty in any shape or form, and just be flattered they find you attractive instead of butt ass Fugly. Gay men are not after straight men nor do we think you can be converted... do you... maybe that’s what bothers folks is it reminds them they question their own sexuality and can’t believe someone else can be open and proud of it because they are ashamed of their own thoughts.
Now can we go back to triathlon allowing EVERYONE out there to be welcome like we are now... no matter what age, sex, size, athletic level, country, or who you love being an issue.
Again... Thank you to those folks being supportive cuz you all ROCK!!!
Come say Hello if you see me out there competing cuz you sure as hell cant miss this Ironsissy
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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Gonefishin5555 wrote:
A lot of us are fine just doing a triathlon without being required to attend a political rally or an equal rights protest at the finish line. Can someone explain to me why I have to be made aware of someone’s sexual preference as they cross the finish line. It’s important to them but I could care less. I read the swimmer story on that website and he finally came out and guess what he learned....nobody really cared cause they already knew.

Could you really care less or do you actually have a bit of a problem with it?

ITU is a global institution. If we look at the state of rights for people at more interesting points on the sexual spectrum then it varies an awful lot. Some countries have relatively recently made legislation towards equality but it's often not perfect and people still face discrimination on a personal level. Then there are other countries (including some which host ITU races) where it would terrifying to be LGBT.

I'm guessing these issues don't affect you or anyone you care about. But there is a lot of work to do but, I hope, the direction of change is obvious and positive. Just incredibly slow.

Personally I would clap anyone with a rainbow flag a bit loader then the rest of our fellow triathletes. I want to be part of a sport that is ahead of the curve and genuinely, demonstrably welcoming.

If you could careless then just move along. If it does bother you then have a think about why that might be.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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It’s been a long battle in my life especially as an athlete and I can tell you that my heart appreciates how you just articulated that and for first time in a long while I just had tears well up. Thank You for seeing US!
Last edited by: RUNNER86: Jan 21, 19 13:58
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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To be Honest, I think this rule is small peas in this realm, and thew more problematic move in terms of the LGBTQ2 community was the awarding of the Grand Final to Abu Dhabi...

I'm not sure that the rule wording gets walked back, but I can see a clarification around the application to help mitigate some of these concerns, and agree that we'll likely see an outpouring of support around inclusiveness in our sport, which can only be a good thing.
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [RUNNER86] [ In reply to ]
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RUNNER86 wrote:
If this is true, I can’t tell you how relieved I am as a human, an athlete, and a gay person.
Please people can we stop making gays political... I really am a human just like you! Just cuz I like to chase hot men in wet spandex doesn’t mean I want you, I can appreciate beauty in any shape or form, and just be flattered they find you attractive instead of butt ass Fugly. Gay men are not after straight men nor do we think you can be converted... do you... maybe that’s what bothers folks is it reminds them they question their own sexuality and can’t believe someone else can be open and proud of it because they are ashamed of their own thoughts.
Now can we go back to triathlon allowing EVERYONE out there to be welcome like we are now... no matter what age, sex, size, athletic level, country, or who you love being an issue.
Again... Thank you to those folks being supportive cuz you all ROCK!!!
Come say Hello if you see me out there competing cuz you sure as hell cant miss this Ironsissy


Wouldn't it be nice if one day we could stop putting labels on everyone and pointing out the differences of colour, gender, race and sexual preference and just have everyone be humans...
Last edited by: dunno: Jan 21, 19 14:17
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Re: ITU bans rainbow flags - grounds for DQ. [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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Wouldn't it be nice if one day we could stop putting labels on everyone and pointing out the differences of colour, gender, race and sexual preference and just have everyone be humans... //

Yes, it will be nice once that day comes. But it is not here yet, so work to be done for sure. In an odd way, this ITU measure is certainly going to backfire on them, and hasten that day, so a silver lining to this not so well thought out change. This reminds me of some of WTC's famous policies that got hammered out in a closed room, with everyone not willing to tell the king he had on no clothes. Well not so with ST'ers, king came out naked, we laughed our asses off, and all began pointing to the silliness of those rule changes that were made insetiously. I give this one about the same life span as the pay a grand to cut in front of the entry line...
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