Thanks FB.

ITU racing seems to be in great shape heading into the Olympics and it's great that it's on Universal Sports here in the US. The races are entertaining, well packaged with generally pretty good commentary.

A couple of discussion points:

A few years ago there seemed to be more of a push to find tougher, hillier bike courses, but this doesn't seem to have happened. Does wanting a tight, multi-loop city circuit trump the desire to find a couple of decent hills?

The women's bike leg tends to be pretty boring. I get that if Gwen is front-pack then the race for 1st is effectively over, but surely there are weaker runners who should still want to chase a podium spot by pressing hard on the bike? Rarely seems to happen.

Are biological passports being used for PED control? If so, when and how is an athlete's 'base' determined? How often are random OOC tests being conducted? Maybe some pros could chime in on this. It seems a lot of people believe there is very little doping in triathlon. I don't understand this. It's an elite, professionnal endurance sport so of course there's doping!

I live less than a mile from the ITU Leeds venue, so am over the moon about this news.
Between the Grand Depart last year, the Tour De Yorkshire a few weeks ago and now this, it's such a great time to be a cycling/tri fan living in Leeds.

Any info yet on date and the course for Leeds? I'd assume it will be a multi loop city centre course - are there any decent hills that could be used? I'd love to see an Auckland style bike course.

The swim will be in Roundhay Park, but T2 will be presumably in the city.

I don't know Leeds geographically (I know the Yorkshire countryside though!) but I'm wouldn't expect it to be significantly hilly. But hopefully someone knows.

The support will be unbelievable! The only snag is that I suspect it will be a sprint race ...

ETA - just seen a UK press report and it says it will be an Olympic distance event...

The swim venue is a few KM outside the city centre - for anyone interested search for "Roundhay Park" - the swim will be in Waterloo Lake. The bike course will head from there into the city centre.

They should have the swim in Eccup Reservoir and have a lapped course including Black Park and Creskeld Lane.

What are your thoughts on sprint distance races? I thought at one point there were rumours the ITU was looking to replace the standard distance and use the sprint distance for the Olympics?

I'm kind of on the fence as I can see some real positives for the sprint distance particularly if there is a desire to try and increase the profile of triathlon to a broader market.

I also think the sprint distance *might* encourage more attempts to break away on the bike. A 30-40sec gap off the bike in a sprint race is significant but at Olympic distance it generally doesn't mean much. If I have a criticism of ITU racing it's that the bike is generally pretty dull to watch for an hour. Obviously hilly / technical bike courses could make it more interesting but wondering if going more towards sprint distance format would help.

I will definitely be following this thread. As a younger guy who races short course, ITU is what keeps me connected to the sport.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

The proposal was for Roundhay Park to be the swim and transition venue, unsure about specifics re: bike and run loops.

That I can think of, there is only one uphill road that could make for a decent selection on the bike.

To some degree, bio passports are being used. It's what got Mark Fretta a couple years ago. The extent to which they're used, I'm not sure. I know ITU maintains a list of the athletes it requires to be in the OOC/whereabouts testing pool that's about 30-50 athletes across both genders, but then each country might designate some more of its own for testing. That still doesn't guarantee there's a bio passport for any of them, but again, Fretta was popped for it a few years ago, so it's being used to some degree.
This is all in addition to the fact that even at Continental Cups, the athletes all but assume they'll be getting in-competition testing.

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IG: idking90

I don't share your cynicism. And it isn't really an elite professional sport, it remains a niche event (although growing) with only a few athletes make a living from it.

In the end, I don't know for a fact that there is little doping. But as someone who has spent an unhealthy amount of time studying doping in cycling and some forms of athletics, I have to say I see none of the tell tale symptoms: we don't see ridiculous changes in form nor do we see indifferent juniors suddenly emerging with a different skill set as adults. It seems it is possible to cheat the system with microdosing etc, but for that, you need medical expertise to get it right and I don't see where that is happening, if it is.

I have some insider knowledge of what goes on in Leeds and it is a surprisingly healthy, almost amateurish set up and if they are world beaters, then I don't think the people they are beating are doing anything too evil... Perhaps that makes me a naive idiot but there you have it!

I'm curious about this as well, I wonder if sprints will become the default Olympic distance - I think the push for the distance had to do with including team relays in the Olympics. I've noticed more sprints on the WTS calendar. I think it's a great format.

Also, some related points regarding format. I was hoping that Kitzbuhel 2013 (super hilly bike and run) would become a bit of a trend, but it seems to have been a one-off race. I also wonder about super-sprints, I think they're used at the club level in Europe, but I don't know anything beyond that. The US had a super-sprint series for pros, but I haven't seen anything this year.

Some really great footage has been posted here before from the F1 Grand Prix in Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WeFYHa6uTU.

What all these formats have in common is that they're fast and furious (and in the case of F1, they mix up the leg order). The fast and furious approach is part of the ITU brand. Perhaps the circuit can benefit from more varied races (even if there is one standard distance for the Olympics, whether it's the current distance or a sprint distance) . So, instead of all Olympic distances, the way WTS started out, maybe more sprints (which has been happening already) and then also add super-sprints (with eliminations and finals), races like Kitzbuhel, F1 format, etc. More fast racing under varied formats.

I sincerely hope you're right! Better to be naïve or a cynic? ;)

I've always wanted to believe that the sport I'm watching is true competition, be it all those years of watching Lance and thinking the worst of doping in cycling ended in 1998 with the Festina bust, or wanting to believe those amazing Kenyan runners are the real deal... But I understand your perspective with respect to no outlier performances or rapid, unusual development.

But I would only be truly convinced with a rigorous bio passport scheme and OOC testing protocol. Maybe that's happening and we, the fans, are just not being made aware of it. Or maybe it's happening and the ITU doesn't think it's good to publicise it. Or maybe, like many sports, only lip-service is being paid to the issue to give the appearance of legislating a clean sport, but in reality they would rather not catch too many PED users because that would be bad publicity. Again, I honestly hope you're right. Meanwhile, I'll keep watching, wanting to believe it's all honest competition.

I'm also pretty stoked to see that the ITU also announced the Gold Coast as the destination for the Grand Final in 2018.

Not being from that part of the world, I'm not sure what the course will be like (besides an ocean swim I imagine), but I can't wait for it as it is a destination that I definitely want to go to.

In regards to some of the other discussion in this thread, I'd love to see a more balanced ITU world series, and by that I mean a couple courses like Auckland on the circuit with serious hills, a couple urban city courses that are fast and maybe technical, and then at least one course like Kitzbuel with a climb that blows things up. I think it should be the best all around triathlete that wins (I think this is the case with the Brownlee's and Gomez), however, I'd guess I'd just like to see more challenging bikes where you not only have to be able to run 30ish minutes for a 10 km, but you have to be able to do so after gunning it on the bike as opposed to sitting at the back of a pack for somewhat of a free ride.

is leeds going to replace london or be in addition to london? it kind of makes sense given the ridiculous amount of talent that trains there.

regarding doping, if doping goes on in IM races, which have a lot less money involved, then i have to think it goes on in the more lucrative ITU arena. i do agree that there don't seem to be any of the obvious signs (eg, someone making massive gains in a short amount of time, significant body changes (i'm thinking braces on someone who used to have normal teeth or much more muscle mass) or some small group with everyone making huge gains (eg, all russian female middle distance runners or jamaican sprinters). given how spread out over the entire globe the top 100 ITU athletes are, i think it would be almost impossible to conduct frequent OOC testing of everyone.

Good to see the strong interest in ITU racing - it's little nuanced for some, but great stories when you follow the athletes.

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JoelFilliol.com - check out the Real Coaching Podcast

I'm impressed if you really are THE Joel Filliol.

What is your take on doping in triathlon? And why is Mario Mola racing so much? And would love to hear more about your experiences at the GB National High Performance Centre...

Doping - I know from direct experience clean athletes can and do win in ITU, so that is very important for the sport's health.

Mario - it's the series, however not every athlete can, or wants, to target the world series. If you skip early races, you can't then add more later if something happens (mechanical, injuries, etc). This year we had to make a couple choices after Auckland didn't go well, and a few other small issues, however as we don't aim to 'peak' for all these events it's not as hard as it might seem.

GB - you'll have to wait for my tell all book ;-) (seriously, it's coming)

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JoelFilliol.com - check out the Real Coaching Podcast

Echoing Feketeblob, if this is THE Joel Filliol we would love to hear more. As someone who is intensely interested in the sport and athletes, but with little inside knowledge, I love every nugget about the training and mindset of these amazing athletes.

ST forum member since '02


AMA - I'll do my best to reply.

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JoelFilliol.com - check out the Real Coaching Podcast

Thanks for your replies. We know you can't spill ALL the secrets......but throw us a bone now and then :)

Great job with your athletes!

Does anyone know if testing is equitable between athletes from different countries?

Joel, when you were working for GB, did you ever coach the Brownlees directly? I've never heard them mention you, although I read others saying you coached them. I'm not trying to unearth any scandal, just curious.

"Does anyone know if testing is equitable between athletes from different countries?"

No, it's not equitable. Testing driven by the individual country ADAs varies a lot. Some like USADA, CCES, UKAD is fairly frequent OOC. Others are less frequent.
ITU and WADA can also order testing, independent of individual country ADAs - either in competition or out of competition.

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JoelFilliol.com - check out the Real Coaching Podcast

No I did not coach any athletes in GB directly.

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JoelFilliol.com - check out the Real Coaching Podcast