IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann

bluefever

Nov 3, 19 2:49

Post #1 of 17 (2529 views)

Interesting result from IMFL this weekend.

Both Skipper and Hoffmann went really well, three weeks after top 10 places in Kona.

Wurf did well in Kona three weeks after IM Italy.

This despite the huge amount of posts in the Wurf thread criticising him for doing that, including a lot of coaches, which I found really bad.

I think it's interesting how fixated triathlon is on generalized rules or 'conventional wisdom' as it was called in the Wurf thread.

It's great to see some racing strategies that are not conforming to the generalizations.

I hope we see more next year.

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [bluefever] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 19 3:27

Post #2 of 17 (2462 views)

Interesting remark, indeed.

Wurf made this move (race an IM 3 weeks before Kona) as it worked previously for him (what he said in interviews).
On his recent blog he said (my understanding) maybe it was not the smartest move. But whatever, he was 5th in Kona !

And here Skipper and Hoffman performed very well 3 weeks after performing very well in Kona. First (and race record in a very good time) and 2nd, after 6th an4th in Kona, giving all they had...

Interesting, yes.

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [bluefever] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 19 3:45

Post #3 of 17 (2431 views)

Kienle also made mention of it having worked for Wurf. I think due to 70.3 worlds being after Kona next year, he was now considering an additional Ironman in his prep closer to Kona. Mainly I seem to remember as he enjoys racing.

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [bluefever] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 19 3:51

Post #4 of 17 (2393 views)

You need to check but I’m sure skipper raced just before kona too. I think he might have done 3 Ironman’s in about 8 weeks.

His first one wales I think he go a DQ for littering but still ran a marathon off the bike leg and did a 2.40. Listening to imtalk podcast

Rhymenocerus wrote:

I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [PJC] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 19 4:59

Post #5 of 17 (2284 views)

Skipper has thrown down some amazing Time Trials in the UK this year, then went to Ironman Wales and got a DQ for littering the course after he would have won. He has been on awesome form all year. Not surprised he did well at Florida - but I am guessing he needs a really good rest in the 'off season'.

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [bluefever] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 19 5:41

Post #6 of 17 (2226 views)

They all talked to Wurf/Kipchoge's coach!!!!!

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

bluefever

Nov 3, 19 9:20

Post #7 of 17 (2100 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

They all talked to Wurf/Kipchoge's coach!!!!!

Not sure what to make of that.

You mean they actually have been? That’s interesting, as Wurf clearly has fresh eyes on how to do things. Any more details?

Or you mean some kind of foul play insinuation? Or something else?

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [PJC] [ In reply to ]

bluefever

Nov 3, 19 9:21

Post #8 of 17 (2097 views)

PJC wrote:

You need to check but I’m sure skipper raced just before kona too. I think he might have done 3 Ironman’s in about 8 weeks.

His first one wales I think he go a DQ for littering but still ran a marathon off the bike leg and did a 2.40. Listening to imtalk podcast

Oof that as well... good point. Four weeks out I think?

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [bluefever] [ In reply to ]

Nov 3, 19 13:46

Post #9 of 17 (1926 views)

bluefever wrote:

devashish_paul wrote:

They all talked to Wurf/Kipchoge's coach!!!!!

Not sure what to make of that.

You mean they actually have been? That’s interesting, as Wurf clearly has fresh eyes on how to do things. Any more details?

Or you mean some kind of foul play insinuation? Or something else?

I was joking that they talked to Wurf/Kipchoge's coach. In any case that coach said he found his guys did really well after a really really tough session 3 weeks out from an A event. I was not insinuating anything. Kipchoge and Wurf both and break out days on Vienna/Kona weekend after big training days 3 weeks out.

Dev

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 19 8:40

Post #10 of 17 (1732 views)

Typical taper for Marathon and IM is apparently around 3 weeks.

So making a strong training 3 weeks before a race is usual.

However, Kipchoge is doing only 2 marathons a year.
Most marathons pro do a tune-up race before a marathon, but generally 6 weeks before, and generally a half. And a long run is not a race.

I do not know equivalent to the 2x IM at 3 week interval in the Marathon area.
Lelisa Desisa ran NYC Marathon yesterday few weeks after his win in Doha WC.... and stopped after 7 miles

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [PJC] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 19 8:59

Post #11 of 17 (1694 views)

PJC wrote:

You need to check but I’m sure skipper raced just before kona too. I think he might have done 3 Ironman’s in about 8 weeks.

His first one wales I think he go a DQ for littering but still ran a marathon off the bike leg and did a 2.40. Listening to imtalk podcast

That's right. He ran and finished the race no matter what. I personally think he's the best triathlete England got, not Brownlee. I've been following him and he's incredible.

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [Pyrenean Wolf] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 19 9:00

Post #12 of 17 (1693 views)

Pyrenean Wolf wrote:

Typical taper for Marathon and IM is apparently around 3 weeks.

So making a strong training 3 weeks before a race is usual.

However, Kipchoge is doing only 2 marathons a year.
Most marathons pro do a tune-up race before a marathon, but generally 6 weeks before, and generally a half. And a long run is not a race.

I do not know equivalent to the 2x IM at 3 week interval in the Marathon area.
Lelisa Desisa ran NYC Marathon yesterday few weeks after his win in Doha WC.... and stopped after 7 miles

2 marathon races a year, but kipchoge does a lot of 35-42k tempos in training

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [bluefever] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 19 9:05

Post #13 of 17 (1683 views)

I listened to an interview with Joe shortly before Kona where the interviewer discussed Cam Wurf’s Italy performance and asked Joe how he felt it may impact Cam’s race in Kona. Joe said that he had found a race a few weeks out often helped as he would taper for the first race and then taper again for the second one and that the impact of the race in the middle was negated by the two tapers - he explained it far better than I just did though.

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [The_Exile] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 19 9:59

Post #14 of 17 (1646 views)

‘You can’t do an Ironman to prepare for an Ironman’ slowly going by the wayside??

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [thatzone] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 19 10:16

Post #15 of 17 (1615 views)

thatzone wrote:

‘You can’t do an Ironman to prepare for an Ironman’ slowly going by the wayside??

Apparently, yes.
Do an Ironman to prepare for an Ironman was somewhat a success to Wurf, and did not hurt Skipper and Hoff.
Probably some other past exemples.... and some others to come.

However, I guess you still need to prepare for the first one... in some other ways...

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 19 10:25

Post #16 of 17 (1598 views)

Wurf did a 7,45 hour workout 3 weeks before a 8 hour race and Kipchoge ran a 2 hour workout 3 weeks before a 2 hour one?

They are both trained by the team sky sdvisor, Tim Kerrison, but the programs they are on are totally different.

Having a early season qualifier race 3 weeks after top 10 kona still seems different to going 7,45 3 weeks before trying to podium in kona. Either way still beastly

devashish_paul wrote:

bluefever wrote:

devashish_paul wrote:

They all talked to Wurf/Kipchoge's coach!!!!!

Not sure what to make of that.

You mean they actually have been? That’s interesting, as Wurf clearly has fresh eyes on how to do things. Any more details?

Or you mean some kind of foul play insinuation? Or something else?

I was joking that they talked to Wurf/Kipchoge's coach. In any case that coach said he found his guys did really well after a really really tough session 3 weeks out from an A event. I was not insinuating anything. Kipchoge and Wurf both and break out days on Vienna/Kona weekend after big training days 3 weeks out.

Dev

Re: IM three weeks apart, Wurf, Skipper, Hoffmann [The_Exile] [ In reply to ]

Nov 4, 19 11:14

Post #17 of 17 (1548 views)

The_Exile wrote:

I listened to an interview with Joe shortly before Kona where the interviewer discussed Cam Wurf’s Italy performance and asked Joe how he felt it may impact Cam’s race in Kona. Joe said that he had found a race a few weeks out often helped as he would taper for the first race and then taper again for the second one and that the impact of the race in the middle was negated by the two tapers - he explained it far better than I just did though.

I lied, it was an interview after Kona - the specific bit is at about 58-60 minutes
https://podcasts.apple.com/...1034?i=1000453417042

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