One random person's advice - ditch the Stryd and find a way to run at least 40 miles/week BarryP-style. If you start feeling pre-injurious, be conservative and ease back. And definitely stay closer to the 15 hours/week (more if you can) than 10. Good luck!

Another random person's advice which is quite the opposite... perhaps your bike volume isn't sufficient enough to carry you through the second half of the run. I train up to 20 hours per week for an IM but don't run any more than you (due to being injury prone), just bike up to 12+ hours per week and run a consistent IM run.

Check out this article from Jesse K. http://kropelnicki.com/...fic-training-blocks/

Totally agree with this random advice...

Funny, I know this sounds like a cop-out, but i'll have to sorta agree w/ both previous points... As one who came to IM w/ running as the weakest link, I ended up chugging the BarryP kool-aid and found that to be the simplest 'non-plan' plan to just build run volume w/ minimal added fuss or investment. I don't think I ended up actually running that much more in terms of total mileage, but by increasing frequency and not being afraid of easy filler/'junk' miles I was able to sustain a relatively high volume (for me), without the kinds of injury issues that came up when I tried to do a more conventional program w/ fewer but longer runs and/or trying to mix in too much intensity. At the same time, I biked substantially more; 5-8 hours/wk is barely more than just the IM ride itself. I did several long weekend training rides that were near that long alone, in addition to shorter/faster weekday rides, so by the time the actual IM rolls around the ride is nowhere near the biggest/hardest ride of the season.

The other thing you didn't mention is the whole nutrition aspect. I also found it helpful to do a few long bricks just to make sure I dialed in something that worked for me to stay fueled that long w/o crashing, especially when it came to running after (had plenty of experience w/ eating on longer rides, but less so w/ trying to keep my stomach from rebelling while running after that length of total exertion time).

Still Trying:

Doing the math you run 40 minutes a day, six days a week (3.5-4 hours/week and run 18-20/21 day block (that's 6+ days a week on average). Training on 40 minutes (3.5 hours/6 days) a day for the marathon leg after 112 miles on the bike would be a huge achievement. Generally you can race at 3x times training (but at slower race pace) and that would be 2 hours (3x40 minutes) which is way short of your PR. Not sure of your time line to race day, not sure of race time goals, not sure of the math on the bike, and unknown about weight/strength training. You should consider grouping more miles in 2 longer runs per week spaced out 3-4 days apart. These should ramp up to no more than 16-18 mile runs otherwise your breaking down muscle mass at your age (that's unknown but probably north of 30 based on the standalone marathon statement) would be detrimental to your body and life in general. To keep miles steady consider 20-40 minute short runs pre-swim for warm-up on the days between the longer runs. You don't really need the run speed to prevent the 2nd half run bonk. You would need the speed for quicker times and possible KQ, if in your goals. However, if want the speed introduce it about 5 weeks out from race day when you start dropping total run mileage. When mileage drops, throw in some fartlek on the runs. Go faster to about 10 days out from race day. Consider some weights for overall strength. And, yes to what the others commented about adding bike mileage. Stronger bike legs build stronger overall legs for a stronger run foundation.

Doug

https://www.palmtreesahead.com/

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.

djmsbr: What do you mean by racing 3x training?

Due to work (which has changed completely for the better) I had been massively undertrained for every IM I've done in the past. Each of the last three years I've focused on specific parts. Swim/bike in 2016, bike in 2017 and now run this year. In the past I had focused on higher intensity biking and running (with much more biking than running) such that my average weekly run duration was about 2.25-2.5 hours during the IM build. Coupled with it was my terrible sense of running based on how I felt coming out of T2 and disaster has seemed to strike. My run has always been my weakness so I've worked on it by (wait for it) biking more which seems intuitive if you are a stubborn dumb as like me ;) This year I've really focused on running and it has already made a huge difference.

For goals, I am shooting for low 11s and maybe high 10s. Swim should be around 1:03-1:05. For biking my w/kg at race day will be close to 3.85-3.92 w/kg depending on whether I get to my race weight which should get me a conservative 5:30-40 bike split at LP. I'm hoping to get the marathon at 4 hrs (I did 4:13 in 2013 on the same crappy volume of 2.5 hrs per week running. I split the first 1/2 @ 8:39 and the 2nd 1/2 @ 10:39 pace which leads to the Stryd usage).

I am 45 with no history of injury. I've gone with something very similar to the BarryP style though not exactly (based on Jim Vance's book). I have some higher intensity runs which consist of a total of 15-20' once per week. I use the Stryd mainly as a governor of my activity so that I can pace hills better and begin to associate my RPE with course conditions better as I have proven to myself that I cannot race purely on rpe d/t my unconscious need to sabotage myself.

Last week (which is typical for the pattern):
Mon: Recovery Run 30' (z1) or rest, if needed
Tues: brick 20' (z1-2)
Wed: tempo 45' total, 30' (z1-2) then 15' (z3)
Thurs: Brick 20' (z1-2)
Fri: 35' z3
Sat: missed run (supposed to be 30' z1-2) after bike
Sun: 1h40m z2 (eventually build to 18-19 miles)
Total 4h10m

I also ride 3x/week (SSB, IM pace-long ride, Threshold vs EZ depending on fatigue) and swim 2-3x.

This will slowly increase in duration (with the same ratio) to a little over 5 hour over the next 8-10 weeks as I do a 2 week build and 1 week recovery since my body can't seem to tolerate a 4 week block without letting me know it. I'm not sure that I can recover fast enough to do two long runs and still get the threshold and SSB mid week rides done effectively.

thanks again for everyone's input!!!

I managed a 4:15 run on my only IM (Wales, so very hilly) from about 15-20 miles running per week. I'm very injury prone so concentrated on the bike and kept the running focused on hill reps, intervals, easy run and maybe a long run (10-12miles). It worked out fine because i got off the bike feeling like i had 20 miles in my legs not 112. (Wales so very very hilly).

After this IM i tried the Barry P and went long and slow for 30 miles per week for 4 weeks and ruined my feet and haven't been able to run for 6 months.. That's my N=1 anyway.

I do about the same as you, but then again my IM run has not been setting course on fire. Being injury prone, mostly from the running I have chosen to bike more. My best IM run did come off running 35 mile a week avg during IM build with 2 x 45-49 mile weeks.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

"3x training" -- Take your longest run of the week and multiple times the miles and that's what a body and mind can handle on race day. Your Sunday run is 1' 40" ( at 3x = 5 hours) so you could easily handle your goal of 4 hours. Even more so when you reach 18-19 miles in that targeted longest run workout. Looks like you put together a good training plan. If you want to change, consider moving the faster Wed run workout to either Tuesday or Thursday. Add a second longer run in the week on the other day (Tuesday or Thursday). Wed or Sat become your recovery run days (either run or rest depending on need).

Good to hear work changed for the better. Your 5 years older than than the 2013 marathon split. You'll appreciate extra endurance and strength on race day if competing on the hills in LP.

Doug

Tri Coach at https://www.palmtreesahead.com/

Thanks for the comment and trust in the plan. For the record tho, I never intended that stand alone marathon plan to be an Ironman marathon preparation plan. That's not to say it won't work, especially with a few key modifications in your plan, but also based on your background. Either way, I'll be interested in hearing how it goes! Good luck!

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Jim Vance
http://TodaysPlan.com.au (Disclosure: I am contracted with Today's Plan)
http://www.CoachVance.com/
Twitter @jimvance

Consider working on the bike to set up your run.

You can train all the running you want, but if you use up your legs on the bike, your run training doesn't really matter. Your legs are cooked and you won't be at the run speed or consistency you want.

Train and race the bike to set your run up.

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

I don't know what the OP means by 'essentially failed' on the second half of the run. As a completer, failure for me would be bowing out for a DNF. I'm assuming he means something completely different than outright failure.

But, I like what you say here. I found my bike training for a full IM to be a wholly different animal than anything I've done before. If I go out for a 50...60....70...or even a 100 mile ride....at some point (multiple points even), I'm gonna hammer. Cause that's what you do right? I mean, I wanna see little ribbons on my Strava stats for this or that 'course'. Last time, I averaged xx mph, let's shoot for xx+y! This is the hill I hammer on. Oh, yeah, I love going fast here! But I'd never intended on running any further than to the fridge afterwards.

You're dead on. I had to significantly adjust my attitude on the bike. Granted I was training and racing the bike to survive the run. But for a competer, I imagine it's mostly the same as setting up the run. The difference, I would think, is just in the degree, effort, and particulars.

Yep, you can't do a bunch of Zwift races for IM training and expect to have a good day out there. :)

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

Yes! - This neat little article totally explains my little meltdown this past weekend, and last year too. I've been doing almost 90% run training over the winter and actually staying away from the bike so I don't get out of balance (posture/back).

May rolls around, have a few swims, dust off the tri-bike and go at a very demanding race. Doh - I was in shape, but not in game shape.

I didn't start full training last year until now, for races in late June and July. Did way better in those.

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