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IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal?
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Good day all,

I was just wondering who is also in this predicament.

I'm registered for 70.3 Musselman in July, and although I feel the race will be a go, I have a strong feeling that the borders will still be closed for us Canadians for crossing via vehicle.
Has anyone been in contact with IM regarding this situation? I've sent them an e-mail regarding this scenario but have not received a reply. I'm sure this also affects many Americans looking to race Tremblant or Muskoka, in Canada as well.


Yes, I know you can fly over and skirt the rules, but that's not an option in my case, and I don't feel IM can think that's a viable option for many athletes.

Let me know if anyone has had any luck receiving dialogue from IM on this scenario.

Thanks team!!

Quinner
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [Quinny98] [ In reply to ]
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There are rumors (more than rumors really) going around that NY state will not allow any special events permits on NY State Park property for 2021 due to COVID. Mentioned in a thread on here yesterday. I also reached out to someone else who "knows" people and that's the story they're hearing too. Who knows if it ends up being true.

Swim, T1/T2, finish, and some of the bike and run course are in the state park.

So your concern may be a moot point.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks GMAN.
If you hear anything more, would love the updates.
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [Quinny98] [ In reply to ]
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What does this New York State permit situation mean to events like Lake Placid?

Janyne
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [Quinny98] [ In reply to ]
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In a Covid world, 6 months is a really long time out to be looking for specifics on a race. Nobody really knows what is going to happen. Any predictions now would be subject to change, we probably just all need to be patient and wait and see.
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [jmkizer] [ In reply to ]
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jmkizer wrote:
What does this New York State permit situation mean to events like Lake Placid?


I don't think any of the IMLP course goes through a state park but I might be wrong.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Last edited by: The GMAN: Jan 26, 21 14:27
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
In a Covid world, 6 months is a really long time out to be looking for specifics on a race. Nobody really knows what is going to happen. Any predictions now would be subject to change, we probably just all need to be patient and wait and see.

Exactly this. NY could say no permits in 2021 and then reverse course if cases drop to nothing in five months (extremely unlikely but used for argument sake).

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
jmkizer wrote:
What does this New York State permit situation mean to events like Lake Placid?


I don't think any of the IMLP course goes through a state park but I might be wrong.
Would think there are some sort of mass gathering/other permits that are issued by NYS?
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [SayHey Kid] [ In reply to ]
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SayHey Kid wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
jmkizer wrote:
What does this New York State permit situation mean to events like Lake Placid?


I don't think any of the IMLP course goes through a state park but I might be wrong.

Would think there are some sort of mass gathering/other permits that are issued by NYS?


I would think it's mostly counties and towns (certainly using state guidelines) unless something touched NYS owned property. That's the issue with Musselman. The race is held at a state park.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Last edited by: The GMAN: Jan 26, 21 14:42
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
jmkizer wrote:
What does this New York State permit situation mean to events like Lake Placid?


I don't think any of the IMLP course goes through a state park but I might be wrong.

Technically the entire course is in a State Park as the Adirondacks are the largest state park in the Contiguous US. However I believe that all of the permits for the race are from the towns and none are from the state. But I could be wrong.

------------------------------
The first time man split the atom was when the atom tried to hold Jens Voigt's wheel, but cracked.
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [BigDig] [ In reply to ]
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BigDig wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
jmkizer wrote:
What does this New York State permit situation mean to events like Lake Placid?


I don't think any of the IMLP course goes through a state park but I might be wrong.


Technically the entire course is in a State Park as the Adirondacks are the largest state park in the Contiguous US. However I believe that all of the permits for the race are from the towns and none are from the state. But I could be wrong.

I was specifically thinking of Mirror Lake and who manages that.

Janyne
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [Quinny98] [ In reply to ]
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Any option of just racing local in Canada at local events (none Mdot)?

Unfortunately, I don't think it is Ironman's problem if people from one country are not able to travel to another country and as much as I would like them to cater to us, that's something tough for them to accomondate. How do they decide who to refund if you can't get into race in New Zealand for example? You may find that because of this you may be able to get into some Canada based 70.3 IF they happen and they open up registrations to locals.
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [jmkizer] [ In reply to ]
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jmkizer wrote:
BigDig wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
jmkizer wrote:
What does this New York State permit situation mean to events like Lake Placid?


I don't think any of the IMLP course goes through a state park but I might be wrong.


Technically the entire course is in a State Park as the Adirondacks are the largest state park in the Contiguous US. However I believe that all of the permits for the race are from the towns and none are from the state. But I could be wrong.

I was specifically thinking of Mirror Lake and who manages that.

Mirror Lake is controlled by the village of Lake Placid (or the greater Adirondack Park Agency) as best I can tell.

Per the Visit Adirondacks website: The Adirondacks are partially a state park, made up of state-designated areas including wild forest, wilderness, canoe, primitive, historic, and state administrative lands. The remaining 3.4 million acres are privately owned and the land use is regulated by the Adirondack Park Agency. This area includes towns and villages, farms, and businesses.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Paul,
I'll definitely be racing local if I can. I'm in SW Ontario and just waiting to see what MSC, Subaru Triathlon Series, and other 1 off events will be taking place and when. As far as I can tell right now everything they are saying is sprint and try-a-tri's only. Any distance further are just to hard to coordinate at the moment with extra volunteers, police, permits, etc.

My concern with Musselman is I'm already registered. I registered back in 2019. Deferred 2020 race to 2021, and now we are still in a situation with our borders being closed.
I know this is hard for IM to navigate. I think they need to treat every event, and every athlete on it's own basis. If the event was in New Zealand, non-kiwi athletes were already expected to fly to get to the race. The same would go for an athlete from NA racing in Europe. That was the plan when you signed up 18 months ago.
This situation is different. I'm probably closer to the race venue than a lot of Americans, I just can't get there lol.
We will see how it plays out and if IM replies to my e-mail. If this was the old regime I'm certain they would say tough luck, the race is a go, make it here. Really hoping if it is a go and we can't cross the border, they take the border closure into consideration. Heck they even gave refunds last year so maybe they've changed their tune.
Looking at it now, Muskoka is on the same day. Maybe they'll let me switch entries with an American signed up for it. Hahahahaha.

Quinner
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
jmkizer wrote:
BigDig wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
jmkizer wrote:
What does this New York State permit situation mean to events like Lake Placid?


I don't think any of the IMLP course goes through a state park but I might be wrong.


Technically the entire course is in a State Park as the Adirondacks are the largest state park in the Contiguous US. However I believe that all of the permits for the race are from the towns and none are from the state. But I could be wrong.


I was specifically thinking of Mirror Lake and who manages that.


Mirror Lake is controlled by the village of Lake Placid (or the greater Adirondack Park Agency) as best I can tell.

Per the Visit Adirondacks website: The Adirondacks are partially a state park, made up of state-designated areas including wild forest, wilderness, canoe, primitive, historic, and state administrative lands. The remaining 3.4 million acres are privately owned and the land use is regulated by the Adirondack Park Agency. This area includes towns and villages, farms, and businesses.

Cool. I saw something about the state environmental conservation but it wasn't clear to me what that meant in terms of permitting.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/89034.html

However, it does look like the Village of Lake Placid manages it, or at least makes the rules for it: https://ecode360.com/15366115

Janyne
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
There are rumors (more than rumors really) going around that NY state will not allow any special events permits on NY State Park property for 2021 due to COVID. Mentioned in a thread on here yesterday. I also reached out to someone else who "knows" people and that's the story they're hearing too. Who knows if it ends up being true.
Swim, T1/T2, finish, and some of the bike and run course are in the state park.
So your concern may be a moot point.

Any additional rumors (or more than rumors) that NJ may follow suit as well?

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [Quinny98] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Musselman - I live in Geneva NY and know someone on the RD team. Transition has been moved and will actually be on city owned, not NYS park, property. Part of the race still uses NYS park paths for the bike and run but they are looking at potential changes to see what can be done to reroute and avoid the NYS park permit issue. Only ideas at this point but I think the RD team is meeting early Feb to discuss more.
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [stephenj] [ In reply to ]
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stephenj wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
There are rumors (more than rumors really) going around that NY state will not allow any special events permits on NY State Park property for 2021 due to COVID. Mentioned in a thread on here yesterday. I also reached out to someone else who "knows" people and that's the story they're hearing too. Who knows if it ends up being true.
Swim, T1/T2, finish, and some of the bike and run course are in the state park.
So your concern may be a moot point.


Any additional rumors (or more than rumors) that NJ may follow suit as well?

HFP in Ohio has moved their races out of State Parks. Makes me think something similar is happening in Ohio. With everything State governments are dealing with right now, I can see how approving race permits for some point in the future isn't high on their priority list.
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Re: IM race in USA, border closed to Canadians (via driving)!! What's the deal? [Quinny98] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, I know you can fly over and skirt the rules, but that's not an option in my case, and I don't feel IM can think that's a viable option for many athletes.


It's almost impossible to predict what the situation is going to be in 6-months.

Not being judgmental about this, but there seems to be a HUGE difference in the way the pandemic is being treated from Canada to the US, and then in the U.S. there is HUGE variation State-to-State!

Winter for me is usually a whole string on Indoor Track & Field Meets that I'm either doing the Live PA Announcing or Live Stream Commentary. In Canada the whole of the Indoor Track Season has been shut down, and all Indoor Track & Field Centers closed (they are treating them like "Gyms"), while in certain areas in the U.S. it seems business as usual with Meets carrying on. I received a call from a Meet that I normally work at in the U.S., and while I welcomed the possible business, I had to turn him down, as there is now talk that they may close the Canadian air border to ALL traffic possibly in the next few weeks!

Where I'm going with all of this - from where we are now, getting back to anything even close to normal by summer . . . impossible!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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