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IM prep long ride options
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If I only want 1 or 2 really long days in prep for an iron distance race, lets say more than 4.5 hours, what should I be doing on those shorter 3-4hr regular rides? What kind of intervals will make up for the lack of volume?

Would 3-4 x 30 minute intervals at 80-85%?
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Re: IM prep long ride options [teichs42] [ In reply to ]
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Depends on a couple things I think. Is this your first Ironman? Are you a stronger runner or cyclist during a triathlon?
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Re: IM prep long ride options [TMR] [ In reply to ]
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TMR wrote:
Depends on a couple things I think. Is this your first Ironman? Are you a stronger runner or cyclist during a triathlon?

Second full distance. First since IMMT ‘14 where I went in quite unprepared having barely run that year. In my long course career I am not necessarily strong in either but would give a slight edge to the bike.
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Re: IM prep long ride options [teichs42] [ In reply to ]
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I would definitely make an effort to do more 4 hour rides if that is the case, but it shouldn't have too big of an impact as long as you do a couple longer rides.

Something that has worked well for me is to add intensity the last hour of my weekly long ride. Depending on if you ride with power/HR I would spend the last hour at tempo effort. This will get you used to some (mild) intensity on tired legs but not burn you out too much. If you do a couple longer rides with that you should be set. Good luck!
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Re: IM prep long ride options [teichs42] [ In reply to ]
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I think you can do well with that approach, you don't need more than a couple of rides over 4 hours if the 3-4 hour rides have the right quality. Depending on terrain, I would do 2 X 1hr at HIM power with the rest in upper Z2. If you're riding in the hills, try and get a climb that's at least 30min and try and hit 4 X 30min at HIM power.
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Re: IM prep long ride options [teichs42] [ In reply to ]
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Reading between the lines then you're a 6+hr rider?

So the big challenge with what you suggest is less bike fitness that you can probably cover with the sessions above, but the nutrition and position 'testing'. What seems to be fine after 4 hours can suddenly become very not fine after 5hours. I'm not really sure how you can synthesize this.

Please don't be offended by this question, but you've got one IM medal, so that is 'ticked off', if you've got a good balanced life that means you only have 4 hours to put to training, why not focus that on 70.3/half where you can nail the training.
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Re: IM prep long ride options [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Duncan74 wrote:
Please don't be offended by this question, but you've got one IM medal, so that is 'ticked off', if you've got a good balanced life that means you only have 4 hours to put to training, why not focus that on 70.3/half where you can nail the training.

This is really good advice that I think more people should heed. I think too many triathletes think Ironman is the only real triathlon and end up forgetting about the shorter races.
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Re: IM prep long ride options [TMR] [ In reply to ]
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TMR wrote:
I would definitely make an effort to do more 4 hour rides if that is the case, but it shouldn't have too big of an impact as long as you do a couple longer rides.

Something that has worked well for me is to add intensity the last hour of my weekly long ride. Depending on if you ride with power/HR I would spend the last hour at tempo effort. This will get you used to some (mild) intensity on tired legs but not burn you out too much. If you do a couple longer rides with that you should be set. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely keep that strategy in mind.
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Re: IM prep long ride options [rock] [ In reply to ]
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rock wrote:
I think you can do well with that approach, you don't need more than a couple of rides over 4 hours if the 3-4 hour rides have the right quality. Depending on terrain, I would do 2 X 1hr at HIM power with the rest in upper Z2. If you're riding in the hills, try and get a climb that's at least 30min and try and hit 4 X 30min at HIM power.

That's what I'm shooting for, getting some quality into the long ride so that lower race power feels easier come race day.
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Re: IM prep long ride options [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Duncan74 wrote:
Reading between the lines then you're a 6+hr rider?

So the big challenge with what you suggest is less bike fitness that you can probably cover with the sessions above, but the nutrition and position 'testing'. What seems to be fine after 4 hours can suddenly become very not fine after 5hours. I'm not really sure how you can synthesize this.

Please don't be offended by this question, but you've got one IM medal, so that is 'ticked off', if you've got a good balanced life that means you only have 4 hours to put to training, why not focus that on 70.3/half where you can nail the training.

7:32 at IMMT actually. But I didn't have great training leading in and I'm hoping that having structured training can help me get around 6:30. I went 3:02 at Eagleman 70.3 last year, again with not great training and taking it easy, so I think 6:30 is possible with the structure.

I'm not offended at all, and I've done a lot of thinking and come around to the fact that as much as I love IM and would love to become fast, I want more life balance with triathlon. So after this I'm going back to sprint/oly but I already paid for this race last year and deferred it to this year, so I want to see if I can get ready. I can drop down to the half option if I feel like I'm not ready for the full.
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Re: IM prep long ride options [teichs42] [ In reply to ]
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Totally get where you are coming from. My first IM I trained well, and whilst I did way better than I planned, and enjoyed the build up and apres event, the actual day I was very much 'in the zone' and not sure I actually enjoyed that. Fast forward a few years, I'd booked IM New Zealand as part of a 5 week tour of the country, and unfortunately picked up an injury that pretty much prevented me from training at all. I'd not ridden my bike for 9 months until the wednesday before. That bike was hell on the second of the two laps. i forced myself to do 30seconds on tri bars, 30 on hoods and 30 bolt upright holding the pads. However, I had great fun that day chatting to all the marshals and supporters. My slowest ever, but no pressure at all. For me I couldn't cancel as the rest of the trip was booked.
Back to this year, and I'm 12 days away from the next one with more training under my belt than I've ever done and I'm shitting it. I enjoyed the training, but am 'scared' by the race.

So what the ramblings above are saying is get joy how you want. Some will get it from trophy hunting, some from being a 5 to midnight finisher, others somewhere between. I have to say though that I think 70.3 is the sweetspot distance. Sprints and standard are way too much faffing for a 1 / 2hr event. But a half you can train as a hobby and not a lifestyle.

Good luck.
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Re: IM prep long ride options [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Duncan74 wrote:
Totally get where you are coming from. My first IM I trained well, and whilst I did way better than I planned, and enjoyed the build up and apres event, the actual day I was very much 'in the zone' and not sure I actually enjoyed that. Fast forward a few years, I'd booked IM New Zealand as part of a 5 week tour of the country, and unfortunately picked up an injury that pretty much prevented me from training at all. I'd not ridden my bike for 9 months until the wednesday before. That bike was hell on the second of the two laps. i forced myself to do 30seconds on tri bars, 30 on hoods and 30 bolt upright holding the pads. However, I had great fun that day chatting to all the marshals and supporters. My slowest ever, but no pressure at all. For me I couldn't cancel as the rest of the trip was booked.
Back to this year, and I'm 12 days away from the next one with more training under my belt than I've ever done and I'm shitting it. I enjoyed the training, but am 'scared' by the race.

So what the ramblings above are saying is get joy how you want. Some will get it from trophy hunting, some from being a 5 to midnight finisher, others somewhere between. I have to say though that I think 70.3 is the sweetspot distance. Sprints and standard are way too much faffing for a 1 / 2hr event. But a half you can train as a hobby and not a lifestyle.

Good luck.


Wow! That's impressive you even finished! I agree 70.3 is a great distance and I do hope to do more in the future, but I'm still 6+ hours, so I'd love to get that down quite a bit. I see a future where I just try to get 4-5 hours a week throughout the year and when I want to race, I've got a great foundation to build from where I could just focus for 6-8 weeks and crush an olympic or 70.3!
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Re: IM prep long ride options [teichs42] [ In reply to ]
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Basic suggestions on the "longs" by week; separate days of the week, ideally not back to back but can be done because the sports alternate priority in terms of distance. I like alternating "longs" every other week to focus on proper intensity. This is just an example, adjust to your ability and schedule:


Weeks to race:

10*: 3.5-4 hours ride, 3x 20 mins 80-85%; 2-2.5 hour run easy

9*: 5+ hour ride + 2 miles run off bike; 1.5 hour run, 40-60 mins tempo pace

8*: 3-4 hours, second half 3x 20 mins 80-85%; 2.5 hours run easy

7: rest week; longest ride 2-3 easy spin, 1.5 hour run easy all the way

6*: 4 hours; 2.75 hours run easy, build to upper z2 HR in last 20 mins.

5*: Expected ride duration + 15 mins (mostly race intensity, last 30-60 mins upper z2HR) + 2 miles easy jog off bike; 1.5 hour run, 40-60 mins of tempo pace

4*: 3.5-4.5 hours, last hour HIM pace steady, 4 mile run off bike, easy; 3 hour run "forever pace" easy, build to HIM pace last 20 mins.

3*: Race sim: 4 hour ride race intensity, 1-1.5 hour run

2*: Race sim: 3 hour ride race intensity with HIM power last hour, 1 hour run

1*: Race week: *don't be sick or injured; "when in doubt, leave it out"

Good luck

Matt Leu, M.S. Kinesiology
San Pedro Fit Works, Los Angeles, CA
Endurance Athlete and Coach
Consistency/time=results
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Re: IM prep long ride options [ironmatt85] [ In reply to ]
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ironmatt85 wrote:
Basic suggestions on the "longs" by week; separate days of the week, ideally not back to back but can be done because the sports alternate priority in terms of distance. I like alternating "longs" every other week to focus on proper intensity. This is just an example, adjust to your ability and schedule:


Weeks to race:

10*: 3.5-4 hours ride, 3x 20 mins 80-85%; 2-2.5 hour run easy

9*: 5+ hour ride + 2 miles run off bike; 1.5 hour run, 40-60 mins tempo pace

8*: 3-4 hours, second half 3x 20 mins 80-85%; 2.5 hours run easy

7: rest week; longest ride 2-3 easy spin, 1.5 hour run easy all the way

6*: 4 hours; 2.75 hours run easy, build to upper z2 HR in last 20 mins.

5*: Expected ride duration + 15 mins (mostly race intensity, last 30-60 mins upper z2HR) + 2 miles easy jog off bike; 1.5 hour run, 40-60 mins of tempo pace

4*: 3.5-4.5 hours, last hour HIM pace steady, 4 mile run off bike, easy; 3 hour run "forever pace" easy, build to HIM pace last 20 mins.

3*: Race sim: 4 hour ride race intensity, 1-1.5 hour run

2*: Race sim: 3 hour ride race intensity with HIM power last hour, 1 hour run

1*: Race week: *don't be sick or injured; "when in doubt, leave it out"

Good luck

Wow! Thanks for all of that. I'm definitely going to keep this in mind for the last couple of months!
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Re: IM prep long ride options [ironmatt85] [ In reply to ]
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ironmatt85 wrote:
1.5 hour run, 40-60 mins tempo pace

What type of pace are you calling for when you say tempo? Certainly not the typical 10k race pace I tend to think of as tempo.
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Re: IM prep long ride options [teichs42] [ In reply to ]
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It can definitely be done, but without a strong background in biking and many seasons in you it could turn out 'interesting' come race day. I have gone with this sort of approach last season and this season. With two young kids, a full time job, and lots on the weekend, getting in those long rides can be quite a challenge if you want to be 'present' for family.

I've found that I can get in a 3-4 hour ride + 30' transition run and be done around 8:30 on the weekends. Of course, this means getting up around 3:00-3:30, but it is feasible. In training for IMLP last year I only had two rides of over 4 1/2 hours and - both were midweek days I took off from work so it wouldn't effect things on the weekend with my family.

However, this training approach has a big caveat if you aren't already a pretty strong biker. As a reference, I biked 4:51 at IMMT a few years ago. In terms of structure, I break the rides up into 30-45 minute chunks with a variety of intervals at varying intensities.

A 4 hour ride could be something like:
30' warmup with as 15' easy, then 2' @70%, 1' ez, 2'@ 75%, 1' ez, 2'@ 80%, 1' ez, 2'@ 85%, 4' ez
Then for the next 3:00: 4x (5' @90%, 5' ez, 20' @ 80%, 15' @ 70%)
Finish with 30' easy
This would roughly work out to being around 10% over goal avg power. I find if I can do a whole bunch of 4 hour rides like this, then hitting IM power goals on race day is pretty easy and the run goes well.

You could also do something a bit like this with 4 hours:
Same 30' warmup as above
2:30 split up as 3x (40' at IM effort, 10' easy)
In the last hour do 3x (15' at 85%, 5' easy)
This ride has you doing some harder HIM level efforts near the end of the ride.

I always follow my long rides up with a 30' transition run with some race pace efforts or strides mixed in.

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
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Re: IM prep long ride options [mgreer] [ In reply to ]
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Tempo is generally defined as race pace, regardless of the distance. For IM considering the marathon during the race, tempo work in training should be considered open marathon race pace (not IM marathon "race" pace).


Racing a 10-15k is typically a Function threshold pace for running, not tempo in the sense of training for a marathon. Using a race at those distances would be about a 35-60+ minute hard effort for most of us (depending on experience), being an accurate representation of your threshold pace. People more experienced and faster are probably looking at very close to threshold during a 1/2 even, maybe about 3-10 seconds slower per mile over a 15k.

Matt Leu, M.S. Kinesiology
San Pedro Fit Works, Los Angeles, CA
Endurance Athlete and Coach
Consistency/time=results
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Re: IM prep long ride options [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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natethomas wrote:

A 4 hour ride could be something like:
30' warmup with as 15' easy, then 2' @70%, 1' ez, 2'@ 75%, 1' ez, 2'@ 80%, 1' ez, 2'@ 85%, 4' ez
Then for the next 3:00: 4x (5' @90%, 5' ez, 20' @ 80%, 15' @ 70%)
Finish with 30' easy


You could also do something a bit like this with 4 hours:
Same 30' warmup as above
2:30 split up as 3x (40' at IM effort, 10' easy)
In the last hour do 3x (15' at 85%, 5' easy)
This ride has you doing some harder HIM level efforts near the end of the ride.

The %'s are IF/% of FTP?
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Re: IM prep long ride options [ironmatt85] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the clarification!
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Re: IM prep long ride options [mgreer] [ In reply to ]
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Re: IM prep long ride options [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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natethomas wrote:
It can definitely be done, but without a strong background in biking and many seasons in you it could turn out 'interesting' come race day. I have gone with this sort of approach last season and this season. With two young kids, a full time job, and lots on the weekend, getting in those long rides can be quite a challenge if you want to be 'present' for family.

I've found that I can get in a 3-4 hour ride + 30' transition run and be done around 8:30 on the weekends. Of course, this means getting up around 3:00-3:30, but it is feasible. In training for IMLP last year I only had two rides of over 4 1/2 hours and - both were midweek days I took off from work so it wouldn't effect things on the weekend with my family.

However, this training approach has a big caveat if you aren't already a pretty strong biker. As a reference, I biked 4:51 at IMMT a few years ago. In terms of structure, I break the rides up into 30-45 minute chunks with a variety of intervals at varying intensities.

A 4 hour ride could be something like:
30' warmup with as 15' easy, then 2' @70%, 1' ez, 2'@ 75%, 1' ez, 2'@ 80%, 1' ez, 2'@ 85%, 4' ez
Then for the next 3:00: 4x (5' @90%, 5' ez, 20' @ 80%, 15' @ 70%)
Finish with 30' easy
This would roughly work out to being around 10% over goal avg power. I find if I can do a whole bunch of 4 hour rides like this, then hitting IM power goals on race day is pretty easy and the run goes well.

You could also do something a bit like this with 4 hours:
Same 30' warmup as above
2:30 split up as 3x (40' at IM effort, 10' easy)
In the last hour do 3x (15' at 85%, 5' easy)
This ride has you doing some harder HIM level efforts near the end of the ride.

I always follow my long rides up with a 30' transition run with some race pace efforts or strides mixed in.


Thanks for the input! I'll keep these workouts in mind. I might be slow, but this will be my 11th season so I do have experience, just not a huge amount in long course training. I'm just hoping to get through everything and enjoy it and I think I can do that with consistent 3-4 hour quality rides and then maybe 3 or 4 in the 5-6 hour long day range.
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