Personally, I brick about 50% of my long rides and those runs aren't any longer than 20mins. But I've been at this for 8 years or so and my body kind of knows what to do when coming off the bike.

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Steve Johnson
DARK HORSE TRIATHLON |

When is Redman? Unless you've got some time and ramp up coming, that is a horrible workout schedule for an iron distance, even considering the "just finish" goal.

To answer your question, no, bricks are not necessary. I do back to back workouts simply because of time constraints. An occasional brick can be beneficial mentally, or to try a short (20-30 min) run after a race pace bike to gauge effort/fitness, but they are far from necessary.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Redman is in Sept.

If this is so horrible, you could at least state why and what you think would be better. I confess I actually very much enjoy this schedule. It just feels good to me. Hard (for me) but good.

Most training plans will throw in weekly brick workouts (usually 2/wk), and I personally find that to be unnecessary. There's no secret sauce in a brick workout. It doesn't contain superhuman running mojo. It simply exists to provide you with the sensation of running on post-ride legs. Unless you're performing a race rehearsal (at target bike and run paces), the brick run should be relatively uncomfortable, whereas race day should be reasonably comfortable.

If you do any type of hard ride (be it short and intense, or just simply long) and follow it up with a quick 20-25 minute run, you'll get the sensation of T2 legs pretty quickly. Do it 2-3 times (total) in the lead-up to your race and you'll learn to respect the transition. The 20 minute mark isn't magic, it's basically just a readily-achievable amount of time in which you should be able to relax and control your pace. Any more than that, and you're simply running on battered legs without any appreciable gains in run quality or endurance.

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"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

I don't think the schedule is "horrible" (I think that was the term used). You did not provide any times or distances, so, hard to say whether you are doing "enough."

However, my initial impression is that you are not running enough. Looks like you are only running 2 days per week. Not sure how far you are running, but, that would not be nearly enough for me.

Regarding your other question - I have done 6 IM races. I have done significantly better when I incorporate more bricks. When I say this, I mean 90 min bike followed by 20 min run. Sometimes a 120-180 minute bike followed by the 30-40 min run. I never do long bike-long run. I really does help. But, I have finished a few IM races with solid times and very little to no bricks.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

You're only running twice a week. Thats one glaring issue. Start there.

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"One Line Robert"

Well yeah it does look like it would feel good!

very relaxing

I'd add a run to like every day there isn't one. but then your coach is aware of your training history, goals, and health and we are not. That training might be all you can tolerate for any number of reasons.

So you might stick with the coach's plan and see how it goes.

either way, no a brick isn't really necessary, it may be helpful but you don't need a ton of them.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I don't do a lot of bricks and rarely have people that I work with do them. When I did, I found I was much more prone to injury especially with my back. I don't find it makes much of a difference if you have done enough races to know what it feels like. I have to remember that the first goal is to get to the start line injury free. I go by the mantra that it doesn't matter what I do in training if I get injured and can't race. I do have a few in my program leading up to the race, but it is really much closer to the the race than where you are in your training for Redman. I won't be doing them until about 6 weeks out and even then there are only a few. As an older athlete I find recovering from each workout is much more important. Good luck at Redman - one of my favorites.

So let me get this right...your only running 2x per week and riding 3x per week to prepare for an Iron Distance race?
I would not be worried about the brick's and start worring about the lack of volume you probably have! Whats your total hourly training load for the week? 10,12,16, 20 hours?

Are bricks mandatory to be successful....No.
Do they have value...Yes.

You will hear dozens of different opinions and personal experiences here on ST, but ask your coach his thoughts?
There may be a method to his madness we dont know based on your background, medical history, past performances, etc.
Question him as to why no bricks yet? Will I do bricks? What are your thoughts on bricks?
If your paying him you have the right to ask those questions.

Address the Volume also!



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Robert Flanigan

so you pay him and ask for advice here? Please tell me where your money tree grows.

I brick after every bike but not because I think there is something magical about doing a brick - just the easiest way for me to get in some xtra run sessions....

Running is my best discipline and I can go long pretty easily. He's using that fact to push me more on the bike, where I need to develop my bike legs better. I generally run 9-10 miles on Wed (90 min), then anywhere up to 3 hours (maybe 20 miles) on Sunday.

There's always at least one of these guys...

hey you chopped out the part of my post where I was being reasonable. no fair!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

As I already stated, running is the least of my worries. I've done a number of ultras.

Weekly training...about 10-16 hours per week right now.

Yes I'm weaker than you all. I do my best.

bet you are faster than I would be

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I'm not allowed to seek other opinions? Really?

Well I'm not too new, in a sense. I've been doing triathlons about 4 years. Three half-IM's. He's just helping me get over some issues and specific problems I have. Like many here I've often done 20-30 min of running after biking in the past. And I'll do three triathlons and a duathlon leading up to Redman so I won't totally lose the feel for running after the bike. I was just curious as to how the necessity of bricks were generally perceived around here.

Hey may yet add in some bricks. I don't know. (He's on vacation this week so I've not asked him yet.)

Ok, now with more details, the plan is making much more sense. First, you are not a newbie. Second, you have 3 HIM races under your belt. Third, you are traing 14-16 hours per week. Fourth, your long runs are up to 20 miles. This all makes a big, big difference and answers many questions.

With these details, your training schedule makes much more sense. In that case, I would listen to your coach. Definitely ask about bricks. As many have said, there is no question they are helpful, but, not essential for finishing an IM race.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

To answer your question specifically....I find no use in them.

As posted earlier, I will do back to back workouts only when time dictates.

Since there is no physiological reason to do them, I don't. I mean, how many times do you have to run off the bike to get "used" to the feeling?

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I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
Powered by Accelerate 3

Easy on the defensiveness....you came here for advice...correct.
No one said anyting about you being weaker! Where did that come from?

10-16 hours is not too bad. I personally still think that 2 runs is not enough even if you have done ultras.

You still did not answer my question as to why your not having this dialog with the coach your paying?

If you want sugar coated answers, there are other forums you can find. Were trying to help.



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Robert Flanigan

That was a pretty insightful post. Jackmott just gained some points with me.

My two bits... you can probably finish an ironman right now. But you'd have to go slower than you'd like to.

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Running is a gift.

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