You can do much more and recovery is much better on steroids and performance inhancing drugs.

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"You're guaranteed to miss 100% of the shots you never take" - Wayne Gretzky

easy under the belt knock...
you should be proud of yourself...

congrats

and enhancing is written with an e...

I guess that everybody who succeed is on drugs?

Pathetic!

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Richard

"You're only young once, but you can be immature forever" - Larry Andersen

I'm pulling this one out of my ass (because I don't have my book in front of me), but I believe that Jack Daniels (the famous run coach) has similar training principals. Could be someone else, but I think it is him.

Maybe LVL is just trying to get the competition to screw up in their training! :)

This is a similar approach as used by coach/IM winner Michael McCormack. Coincidentally, he posted his trianing philosophy here on a post he started with an article he had written on the subject and then, to my knowledge, hasn't been back.

I think its an interesting approach and likely would work well if you could do the speed work and not get injured. If you had a good base (from prior years) and your season starts in the winter - this approach would be light on time in the dark days of winter and then in summer you build your time.....

Hard to argue with LVL too much though he does seem to be inconsistent and injury prone the little I know about him. Curious how he will do this weekend.

What works for the pro's vs. the rest of us is likely vastly different.....and of course different people will respond well to different training stimuli. Gordo and M2 seem to have opposite approaches that both have worked for different people......

As long as you train consistently with some approach - don't get injured - I don't really know how much it matters.....

You guys are correct and I am wrong.. I made a mistake, he has worked hard to get to where he is...

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"You're guaranteed to miss 100% of the shots you never take" - Wayne Gretzky

Advocated essentially the same sort of training as well. Base training is a great philosophy, but when exactly does one know when they have an adequate base? 3 months out? $ months? When you do begin to sharpen or as triathletes is it always base training?

Daniel Komen used this philosophy in his prime(or maybe it was just EPO?) as well, doing "maintence mileage" coupled with sharpening sessions at the track that involved crisp 200m/300m repeats...

LVL also has a sample size of one that he's analyzing.

Think about it - a short-course guy moves up to IM. What was his training protocol? Gee -- he built speed for many years, and then added distance.

DUH! How else would he have trained? Since he never tried it the other way around, his argument has exactly zero validity.

I am more convinced by people (coaches, mainly) who have, in fact, looked over various protocols on a wide range of people and have arrived at what they think works best for MOST athletes.

I always shake my head in dismay when I hear that someone is about to try some training approach because some world-class gifted athlete does it. You know what? NONE of us are LVL. Don't do what works for him -- do what will work for YOU.

I agree with you 100% that what works for LVL or what he says to do and what we normal people should do is likely vastly different, but I wouldn't write off his comments as a short course to long course transition. Didn't he say that for short course you should build endurance first - then speed yet for longer races - speed 1st then endurance? I find it interesting - I can't say it makes sense but who knows without trying?

And most age groupers have no idea of what works best for them so they copy somebody's plan and hope.....

there is a lot of validity to LVL statements on training for an Ironman. It is not new though. It is very similar to what Dave Scott advocates in his book "Dave Scott's Triathlon Training" from 1986. It is also similar to what I have used with a lot (not all) of my clients. The general theory is that by doing shorter, more intense work early in your program, you build more strength. Then when you start to increase your distance, you are able to do the distance at a higher intensity. The result is that you get more out of your distance phase this way, you are stronger for it and it is more productive.

If you are preparing for an Ironman, what part of your training do you want to be the strongest for and get the most out of? Your long stuff!

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

there is a LOT of validity to the statement.
it is not something that LVL has discovered but just the approach used by Jan Olbrecht, Jan Jansen etc...
for something like 30yrs.

<< the approach used by Jan Olbrecht, Jan Jansen

is that the same Janssen (Peter Janssen) that wrote the book "Training Lactate Pulserate"?

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

sorry Mike...you got me...wasn't sure about the first name.
it is indeed the guy who wrote the training lactate book (think there is a new edition...if you have the old one you have seen the pix are quite oldish :-)

I think Olbrecht was a student of Janssen or worked with him (forgot which one)

Yes, of course his point is valid. I was being glib. But, I think it is only valid for elites and for the rare human specimens that are LVL and those like him.

MY point is that we need to be very careful when listening to a young, strong, obviously gifted pro athlete advise doing intensity work. LVL can probably go out and thrash his body day after day, and recover and do it again. We can all come up with examples of people for whom that works.

I'm 43, and took a 17-year vacation from excercise until 2 years ago. If I run hard for more than 40 minutes in a week, I limp for the next week.

Many AG'rs are relatively new to endurance training. If you get off the couch in your late 20's or early 30's and go out and start intensity training -- it MIGHT work, but it is MORE likely to simply result in sub-optimal progression. You spend too many days recovering and skipping workouts because you're sore and beat up.

It kind of reminds me of Frank Shorter's relentless insistence that people need to run slower to get better. Frank says, "Look, all you people need to do what I do...go out and do your long runs nice and slow. Say, about 6:00 per mile. That's what works for me."

F* you, Frank.

physiologically the approach of the dutch makes sense for everyone actually, from a theory perspective
it's quite interesting to read.
that said as you rightfully point out, things are different for everyone...

"in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is"

that said, maybe LVL should change the approach...and he would not be injured so often.

Julian,



good point and I agree with regards to running. I wasn't clear in my statements. I was referring to the bike training for an Ironman. I haven't read the LVL statements so I don't know if he was referring to the bike or the run or both. I do not believe that the same holds true for the run, building strength through higher intensity workouts first, then adding distance. I think the normal is what needs to be done with regard to running, building base first, then adding intensity.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Ahh -- yes, and I do agree about bike training. I have found that I can absorb a whole big pile of intense bike work. With good eating and rest, I've never had any trouble pushing the intensity on the bike day after day. In fact, my plan "next time around" when doing bike focus is to crank up the big gear work earlier in the cycle, and run that in tandem with pushing out the long rides.

I would merely warn the AG IM competitor that, if you have to choose, choose to ride long and steady instead of short and hard. In an IM, there is no substitute for those 6-hour training rides.

Running is a whole 'nuther thing. Steady long runs CAN result in a fast IM run. G. Byrn ran 2:49 at Canada, and has never run a 10k faster that high-35 in his life. There is more than one way to a fast IM run split.