So many people bank on being able to use a wetsuit too. I think that was probably part of the problem.

What was scary about it? What did you see?

2 in particular come to mind - both had to hang on to the boat within the first 100 yards and then barely made it from boat to boat doing a dog paddle or back stroke - I can understand hyperventilation but in both these cases (and in many more) there was just complete absence of anything resembling a swim stroke that would get them reasonable forward progress in the water - this, I think, was the worrisome part. How does anyone think they can swim the distance if they (from all outward appearances) have absolutely nothing that resembles a swim stroke... Swimming, as far as these folks were concerned was not "forward progress" but "staying alive while in the water."

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John F. Martin, Jr.
+1 (614) 403-0567
jfm225@gmail.com

Com'on, do you know that Ironman and triathlon in general is not about being able to actually swim, bike or run? Geez, haven't you been on ST for a while? it's about the participation. Everyone and anyone who finishes under 17 hours is an Ironman. We live in a society of non-cut school sports where everyone gets a medal or certificate no matter how bad you are in your sport. God forbid we tell someone they are truly not ready or are incapable of participating in a sport. For heavens sake, they even have a clydesdale and athena division. How funny is that? So it doesn't matter if you can't swim, bike or run, as long as you beat the clock you are an Ironman.

I'm beginning to believe that maybe a water proficiency test might be in order...

When is Ironman going to stop accepting peoples' money? Never. You would have to have mass drownings before they acted.

So the folks that swam from boat to boat were not DQ'ed? And they finished within the time limit?

Chad

Yeah, but you can can't run with your dog, cat and horse across the finish line anymore, so they can't be called Ironpets even if they did the entire distance with you and have a swim stroke and some dogs can really swim pretty good! It is just unjust that they allow humans who cannot swim into these events and my buddy's dog can't even run the finish chute...for crying out loud, the guy won IMCDA and does all his training with his dog....surely there might be a "winner's exemption" for running the chute with the dog/cat/horse.

....OK, back to the thread about humans who cannot swim....we all know pets can swim!

I thought the moment you leaned on a Kayak or boat, it as DQ time?

Com'on, do you know that Ironman and triathlon in general is not about being able to actually swim, bike or run? Geez, haven't you been on ST for a while? it's about the participation. Everyone and anyone who finishes under 17 hours is an Ironman. We live in a society of non-cut school sports where everyone gets a medal or certificate no matter how bad you are in your sport. God forbid we tell someone they are truly not ready or are incapable of participating in a sport. For heavens sake, they even have a clydesdale and athena division. How funny is that? So it doesn't matter if you can't swim, bike or run, as long as you beat the clock you are an Ironman.
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Hahhahah.. and the next thing you know they will be extending the time limits to 24 hours when they ran out of fresh participants.
The whole thing is a joke with the current time limit same as marathons in the US.

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I see obsessed people.

It's a DQ if the boat helps you to make forward progress, otherwise you can "rest" with the kayak or boat.

Not unless forward progress is made. When I volunteered, the directors said let swimmers hang as long as they want, just don't let them talk you into taking them anywhere (except backwards, which I think no one wants) without being DQ'ed.

You are allowed to hang on to something, you're just not allowed to make forward progress while doing so.

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I know I'm promiscuous, but in a classy way

Yeah, a really poor swimmer would have a pretty tough time once you get out past Towhead island, there is a bit of a current at you. Factor in no wetsuit with a current and a poor swimmer will be exposed in a hurry!

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

We had a no wet suit swim in a OLY and I saw a guy get pulled w/i 5 minutes of the start (the "womens" were not even in the water for our wave yet). No wetsuit + shitty swimmer = scary.

that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. EVERYONE KNOWS it's a 2.4 miles swim. NASports or WTC should not be held responsible for people putting themselves into safe situations that they shouldn't be in. If WTC has set up reasonable safety standards and someone who cannot swim makes the choice to take part in the event that person should bear the responsibility of being there.

Get over it - you don't have to sue everyone just because you are american.

He's not saying sue them. He's saying that they won't change it until/unless someone sues them. Big difference.

Even as a mediocre tri swimmer, it pisses me off that these longer course, national/global events allow totally unqualified people to attempt it. I say shorten the limit to 90 mins. It won't take long for people to bomb out, word to spread, and for the super-slow to stop attempting it. That will thin out the field some, too, which is good for the MOP/BOP. Yeah, I know it will reduce the profitability, so raise the damn fee. $500 is too cheap anyway. Make it $600, problem solved.

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**************
Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

90 minutes is still a ton of time. I do zero swim training, have zero swimming background and have done 2 IM swims in 76:00. The only training I do for an IM is increasing cycling to 100 miles and running to 20 miles. And most important is nutrition.

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Paul

I think 90 minutes as a cut off would be way too tight. My man Murphy's Law who is a Kona qualifier would have been PULLED off the course in Kona on account of not making the hypothetical 90 min cutoff. He went on to finish in around 10:25. I have a bunch of friends in the 1:30-2:00 range who can finish in the 13-15 hours time frame. They are well below the 17 hour cutoff....just can't swim. One of them is a 3:25 marathoner and is 60 and just started to learn how to swim.

I'm not sure where the line is, but I'd settle for 1:45 :-). Better yet, athletes should prove that they have finished a half Ironman before being allowed to start. NAS could take the money 365 days out and then when you show up for registration, you have to prove that you did a half with race results. If the person did not finish the half, they are not allowed to start. NAS keeps the entry fee, and the course is perhaps "that much safer".

Dev

Good point about the age thing. As we get older we get slower. Thats not due to a lack of heart, experience, training or the ability to finish strong. Its just the way it goes. You can't make a rule that hinders the older of us. At this point, age 53, I'm seeing the run times in my age group go higher and higher. Cycling times seem to remain constant or barely an increase. Never really study swim times since I don't swim train or care.

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Paul

I'd settle for that structure. And Kona doesn't really need an aggressive cutoff, because most had to qualify to get there, and via a 1:45 cutoff. No biggie if some lotto slotters are super-slow.

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

John,

It's IMKY one of those funky starts where it's not en-mass but insteady individuals go at 10 second intervals or something like that. Which kinda puts the double whammy on your point - what if these folks you saw had to start in say IMAustria w/ ~2000 running in off the sand and hemmed in on either side by docks for the first 150m? I can't imagine it.

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

I think this would be win win.....NAS sport gets to collect $$$ up front and then kick out anyone who has not proved that they have recently done a half before showing up at registration (let's say in the past 2 years). Pehaps you could electronically submit your results in advance of registration so that things are "auto checked". This way, there is no need for a cutoff, but implicitly there is a proficiency check. No different than if you win the Kona lotto. I believe you have to do a half some time in the lead up.

You're correct, and I'm totally with you.

One drawback, my ranking in the swim results would tank. I don't know if I'd be able to claim slightly better than MOP in the swim anymore! And since it's all about me... ;-)

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

Its about te finish line, entourage photo op and bragging rights. Who cares if you finish 17 hours or 9? More power to the fat and slow! they put te Ironman on the map. Now I see more and more first year rookies showing up on the start line. Looking at the Ironmans recent policy on safety, one of these folks die due to a clogged artery in the swim and they will officially let people to wear life vests in the swim. 3 years ago in Accenture I saw a yellow rope along the swim course. I didn't know what it was but they told me it was the "pull rope" yup, you pull yourself along the swim course! IM needs one of these.