I think that's the wrong approach. If you get bonking-symptoms, you're too late. You must eat regularly such that you do not get the symptoms. You can not do that on feeling, but you have to do that with your mind. Have a nutrition plan and perform it by looking at your watch and eat according to your plan.

if you feel good, eat.

if you feel like crap, slow down and sip water.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Bonking usually comes from going too hard for you ability, not from eating too little. Most eat and drink too much.

How about we actually answer Spartans question ... shit happens in races (and training) even if we plan appropriately AND yes we can can actually bonk from under eating and going appropriate effort levels for our ability.

- Cramping / "Loss of Muscle Control" ... slow way down, spend time recovering from over exerting in a way that one is not trained properly for, stay on normal fueling plan, consider adding a balanced electrolyte intake (especially if you have not been doing so) and for those who it works for a "Hot SHot" type product (salt is not the answer)

- Lactic Acid Build Up ... slow waaayyy down so your body can clear it, gradually bring yourself back up to appropriate speed / effort

- High Heart Rate (?) ... well, slow down first ... and if it's low blood sugar related then slow down and get some simple sugar sources (and other forms of carbohydrate as well so you do not get the crash again) ... you'll also need to slowly bring yourself back up to speed

- Low Mental Capacity ... same as above ... slow down some, get some fuel on board AND consider getting caffeine ingested as well

Of course a well balanced race day / training day fueling and pacing plan takes care of all that BUT i believe that applying those strategies are reasonably simple when you get into trouble.

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Thanks for your response. I ask because during a marathon I did everything right nutrition wise and pace wise.

I took a gel every 30 minutes, water at every Sid station, electrolyte drink every other aid station. I ran a slow, very comfortable 8:15/mile pace with a nice steady heart rate.

At mile 22 I completely lost it in the matter of one step. I could barely walk. I was cramping. My legs ached like never before in my life. My pace the last 4 miles was 14:26/mile with medics trying to get me to stop.

When I would take a gel I would feel better for a few secs. But at that point, I didn't know what fuel to take, cause I had never been in that situation.

I have never had this happen in training. I had run plenty of 18-20 mile sets at the above pace with even less nutrition and routinely run half marathons in a 12 hour fasted state and maintain a 7:15-7:20/mile pace.

Training for my 1st IM I do long training sets with no Bonking, a lot of times fasted. If I book during the run or feel like I might, I'd like to know what to fuel with depending on the symptoms I am having.

I know this doesn't answer your original question but you've described your training (long miles, faster and fasted state) and your race routine (slower miles, lots of feeding and drinking). Did you ever practice the race routine? It doesn't seem to be out of the realm of possibility that your training and racing where too different and you didn't learn as much as you could during training by not replicating your race routines.

I did practice race routine including testing the different gels and bars. I ran the same pace in long run training that I did in the marathon.

Weather was great. It was colder and less humid than I was used to, but that was the only difference.

I just want to know how to tell if my body needs sugar, salt, carbs, protein, water, electrolytes, fats and so on so if it happens again, I can recover enough to finish.

Things I've noticed:
Sloshy stomach= comments not clearing. Slow down and don't take in anything until it clears
Too much sodium= swollen fingers, headache, need more water
Tingly finger tips, grumpy negative attitude = low blood sugar, take gel or calories
Very hot breath = increased core temp, slow down, cool down any way possible

hmmmm....

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I'd suggest that was questionable. Nutrition is an art not a science. What works in one situation does not necessarily work in others. As you can see from the posts, there are many more than one ways to skin a cat.

You say you took stuff from aid stations. Was it stuff you'd used before? If you train on less nutrition, why did you (apparently) increase it for the event?

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

If it was colder than you were used to and you drank at every aid station, did you take in too much liquid?

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Let food be thy medicine...

Come train with me in Phoenix this summer and you'll learn what I mean

Are you saying you ran your long runs at marathon pace? That seems way too fast or you took it easy in the marathon.

I heard once an advice of an expert which was the equivalence of about one gel every 20 minutes. I take one every 15 minutes, during the bike and the run.

You cannot counteract fatigue and bonking systems with fuel and hydration if the cause is simply that you went faster for longer than your aerobic ability allows. Which isn't to say that fatigue and bonking cannot be caused by fuelling and hydration errors, but that it often isn't and when it is, the time when you could have done anything constructive about it may have passed.

I am full of admiration for anyone with a steely enough stomach to follow either the 30 or 20minute protocol. I honestly think I’d soil myself.

Well hello me from 3 years ago.
I tried to start a thread to compile a list of common IM-fail-scenarious and possible solutions in this thread

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

This.

Those people you see doing the death march are either out of shape, overlooked it on the bike or both.

Totally agree.
Nutrition is important, but too much overrated.

 It’s much easier to tell yourself you messed up nutrition than you’re not as fit as you thought you were.
First time at Kona I walked 14 miles, stomach issues. Av HR 6-8 beats too high on bike.

Maybe try a gel that has protein in it like Accel Gel. As I've gotten older, have found that protein is increasingly important.
With just sugar-based gels I'd find I'd crash. The protein seems to even things out more.
http://www.pacifichealthlabs.com/Accel-Gel_p_14.html
I like the raspberry with caffeine.

I don't use gels for anything over 2 hrs. I've been a confirmed user of Hammer Perpetuem for the past 10 years plus for all my longer events from Ironman to ultra marathons. Got very used to judging how much to use. Only one solid rule: Keep everything separate - calories, electrolyte, water. That way it's easy to adjust one or the other without affecting anything else.

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

Dear lord, that's a lot of gels. Admittedly I'm not a gel user (probably had my last 8-10 years ago, they've never sat well with me), but you're talking ~15 gels for a half? I'm sure my stomach would shut down an hour into the bike.

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Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.

In an Ironman or Half Ironman I always start on the bike the first hour with two powerbars without fluid: I do that to prevent having to pee. But then indeed a gel every 15 minutes. So that's in a half distance about 6 or 7 on the bike and 6 on the run, makes 12 or 13.
In an IM that's 2 powerbars plus 17 gels on the bike plus 14 on the marathon, which makes about 31 gels. Never bonked, never did a marathon over 3:40 (only last year in Kona I needed 3:55 EDIT: and, to prevent lies: in 2007 the marathon in my first IM went in 3:43).



I drink plane water with a gel (at least 150 ml as advised). I used to take one gel per 20 minutes but started once with one every 15 and it works. As I understand the sport, you should eat as much as your stomach can process, because the amount of calories you burn is always more than that which you can eat. And yes, the calories from gels get pretty quickly to the muscles.