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IM Canada 2018 bike route?
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Any idea of when the bike route for Ironman Canada will be finalized for 2018? I am planning on doing an Ironman next year and Whistler is on my short list but the feedback from the people who have raced there is that if the new bike route is two loops of the 70.3 route it will be killer. In the past I have done Canada (Penticton), Louisville and Tremblant so I am not looking for a dead flat bike route I actually like some climbs but the dire predictions of a double loop that will chew you up and spit you out has me worried. People who have done Whistler do you think a double loop would be as challenging as what I have heard?
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [Longrunhome] [ In reply to ]
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nothing set yet that i have seen.
2 times the current 70.3 route would be about 2,300 meters of climbing on a constantly rolling course. Not crazy bad but not easy.

Why couldn't the route head towards Squamish and ride out the flats in Paradise valley / Squamish Valley road? I think they used to have the provincial Time Trial championships out there - Nice road and is north of Squamish so would not affect Squamish too badly.

I really like the current route so its too bad that Ironman cant make it work in Pemberton (or maybe they are working on that as website still has old course on it?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkT_d2OTgv0
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Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]
Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [Longrunhome] [ In reply to ]
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A double loop would be tough. And I thought they wanted the road to Whistler opened as early as possible. If it is two loops, then the road is going to be impacted for much longer. It will be exciting to see where they go if they keep it a single out and back. As long as they keep to major roads, the route probably would not be much worse than the previous setup.

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
It feels like Pemberton is suffering from a very vocal minority. There were a lot of people out there cheering for the riders as we passed through this year.

My though exactly. This was my first year doing IM Canada. I was surprised to see the support in the Pemberton area, based on everything I'd read. Too bad. That bike course is awesome. Perfect mix of hills and flat road.
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [Longrunhome] [ In reply to ]
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It's an interesting puzzle, because you have a course often referred to as tough, and you're removing the only flat section from it, in a region that is very lumpy.

If you rule out Pemberton, and you rule out making it two laps of the 70.3 course (which is almost where my money is - I think one lap will go to the top of the Callaghan) then you're looking at using the road to Squamish. A quick play of bikely says that you can get a full distance course riding from Alta Lake to the McD's at Squamish, as long as you ride to the top of the Callaghan - on the way there and on the way back. So I can't see that flying. And for the matter the ride out of Squamish heading north isn't much fun either. It's. Along dragging slope in three steps, each of which is steeper than the last (with the last one hitting 10%).
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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Greg66 wrote:
It's an interesting puzzle, because you have a course often referred to as tough, and you're removing the only flat section from it, in a region that is very lumpy.

If you rule out Pemberton, and you rule out making it two laps of the 70.3 course (which is almost where my money is - I think one lap will go to the top of the Callaghan) then you're looking at using the road to Squamish. A quick play of bikely says that you can get a full distance course riding from Alta Lake to the McD's at Squamish, as long as you ride to the top of the Callaghan - on the way there and on the way back. So I can't see that flying. And for the matter the ride out of Squamish heading north isn't much fun either. It's. Along dragging slope in three steps, each of which is steeper than the last (with the last one hitting 10%).

Greg66,

Not sure if you can but, if what you say is true, can you comment on how this proposed course would compare to say, Coeur d'Alene? This is the only hilly Ironman reference I have. Thank you.
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [JMike] [ In reply to ]
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JMike wrote:
Greg66 wrote:
It's an interesting puzzle, because you have a course often referred to as tough, and you're removing the only flat section from it, in a region that is very lumpy.

If you rule out Pemberton, and you rule out making it two laps of the 70.3 course (which is almost where my money is - I think one lap will go to the top of the Callaghan) then you're looking at using the road to Squamish. A quick play of bikely says that you can get a full distance course riding from Alta Lake to the McD's at Squamish, as long as you ride to the top of the Callaghan - on the way there and on the way back. So I can't see that flying. And for the matter the ride out of Squamish heading north isn't much fun either. It's. Along dragging slope in three steps, each of which is steeper than the last (with the last one hitting 10%).

Greg66,

Not sure if you can but, if what you say is true, can you comment on how this proposed course would compare to say, Coeur d'Alene? This is the only hilly Ironman reference I have. Thank you.

Can't offer a CdA comparison I'm afraid, as I've never raced there. I've ridden Squamish to Whistler a couple of times, once as the second half of the Vancouver to Whistler Granfondo and once as a Whistler to Squamish round trip on my own. It's basically downhill from 2200 feet to sea level (there are a couple of uphill sections and a bit of flat). So an IM course based around that round trip would have a second half that is basically uphill.
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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Greg66 wrote:
JMike wrote:
Greg66 wrote:
It's an interesting puzzle, because you have a course often referred to as tough, and you're removing the only flat section from it, in a region that is very lumpy.

If you rule out Pemberton, and you rule out making it two laps of the 70.3 course (which is almost where my money is - I think one lap will go to the top of the Callaghan) then you're looking at using the road to Squamish. A quick play of bikely says that you can get a full distance course riding from Alta Lake to the McD's at Squamish, as long as you ride to the top of the Callaghan - on the way there and on the way back. So I can't see that flying. And for the matter the ride out of Squamish heading north isn't much fun either. It's. Along dragging slope in three steps, each of which is steeper than the last (with the last one hitting 10%).


Greg66,

Not sure if you can but, if what you say is true, can you comment on how this proposed course would compare to say, Coeur d'Alene? This is the only hilly Ironman reference I have. Thank you.


Can't offer a CdA comparison I'm afraid, as I've never raced there. I've ridden Squamish to Whistler a couple of times, once as the second half of the Vancouver to Whistler Granfondo and once as a Whistler to Squamish round trip on my own. It's basically downhill from 2200 feet to sea level (there are a couple of uphill sections and a bit of flat). So an IM course based around that round trip would have a second half that is basically uphill.

Thank you.
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [JMike] [ In reply to ]
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Just anecdote,

Having done both myself and a couple other athletes CDA is about 5-10 min easier.

Roads are better and grades are easier/more spread out than Whistler, also Whistler with the big climb at the end allows for a bigger eff up factor.

My experience is that there is a high eff up factor at IM. ;-)

Having said that the biggest variability on both course is wind and weather on the day.

cda could heat up this year which also means high winds.

2c
Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [Longrunhome] [ In reply to ]
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Just sign up for Whistler or Tremblant and, if Whistler, prepare for whatever they come up with. It will be great either way. After racing two IMs in Tremblant and this year in Whistler, I had no hesitation in re-upping for Whistler no matter what they come up with.
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [Longrunhome] [ In reply to ]
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What about bypass pemberton and go to d'arcy or Joffrey. ...more climbing for sure, maybe leave out Callaghan?

I think it will stay on the meadows Rd though. Roads are public.
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
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rhayden wrote:
What about bypass pemberton and go to d'arcy or Joffrey. ...more climbing for sure, maybe leave out Callaghan?

I think it will stay on the meadows Rd though. Roads are public.

I think any option will be more climbing. Issue with the tt route in squamish and Mt Currie and the current route would be other levels of government. Ie bands or municipal. Sea to Sky highway is only dealing with Mot. And the precedent is set with the grand fondo.

Up the Duffy would be epic though!

Personally I think they could keep the current route if some money was involved.

Maurice,

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
Just anecdote,

Having done both myself and a couple other athletes CDA is about 5-10 min easier.

Roads are better and grades are easier/more spread out than Whistler, also Whistler with the big climb at the end allows for a bigger eff up factor.

My experience is that there is a high eff up factor at IM. ;-)

Having said that the biggest variability on both course is wind and weather on the day.

cda could heat up this year which also means high winds.

2c
Maurice

Thanks, appreciate it. Gotta lose weight and train hills
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
rhayden wrote:
What about bypass pemberton and go to d'arcy or Joffrey. ...more climbing for sure, maybe leave out Callaghan?

I think it will stay on the meadows Rd though. Roads are public.

I think any option will be more climbing. Issue with the tt route in squamish and Mt Currie and the current route would be other levels of government. Ie bands or municipal. Sea to Sky highway is only dealing with Mot. And the precedent is set with the grand fondo.

Up the Duffy would be epic though!

Personally I think they could keep the current route if some money was involved.

Maurice,

Lol to the Duffy! From memory Whistler village to the top of that pass and back is 75-80miles. That ride up the Duffy Lake Road isn't called the local Alpe d'Huez for nothing - similar length and elevation (a bit shorter, but not much) and the initial ramps are strangely similar to the Alpe. Can't think they get much return business with that course.

Running the course to Darcy would be a good move. That road is quiet and undulating with a slight overall drop to Darcy. My very first 100m ride was to there and back from Whistler. BUT surely that doesn't entirely bypass the problem of Pemberton, does it?
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [Greg66] [ In reply to ]
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My first "and second" rides at over 100 miles were when I lived in Whistler for 10 years were through darcy.

Having said that you still pass through Mt Currie so "negotiations" would be in order?

Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [Longrunhome] [ In reply to ]
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IMO, the Pemberton Meadows section was boring as hell, and I also cooked alive down there when it got really hot in 2014.

Whistler is going to be a challenging course no matter where the ride takes you. It is a fantastically beautiful venue, and one you should not pass up over fear of a hard bike course. The rest of the event will more then make up for it.

Also, the climbing on the front 90k is a walk in the park compared to that dreaded slog back up to whistler over the last 30k. That last climb ate my soul!
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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Someone post an elevation map of your thoughts :) Also did they specify when routes were being released?
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
IMO, the Pemberton Meadows section was boring as hell, and I also cooked alive down there when it got really hot in 2014.

Whistler is going to be a challenging course no matter where the ride takes you. It is a fantastically beautiful venue, and one you should not pass up over fear of a hard bike course. The rest of the event will more then make up for it.

Also, the climbing on the front 90k is a walk in the park compared to that dreaded slog back up to whistler over the last 30k. That last climb ate my soul!

I agree. I found that pemberton meadows section really uninspiring. But still better than that out and back at penticton.
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
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Oh man, don't remind me of the Penticton out-and-back, that was terrible. Bad pavement, and you passed the turn-around of it long before you got there (while on the main road) just reminding yourself how far you had to back track.

------------------------------------------------------------
Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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Still have PTSD from the last 20 miles of the 2014 race. Blazing sun and no aid station to be had... Ugh.
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [thugbuster] [ In reply to ]
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thugbuster wrote:
Still have PTSD from the last 20 miles of the 2014 race. Blazing sun and no aid station to be had... Ugh.

Ha! Absolutely. I remember that last climb coming up to the aid station on the climb back, I saw someone so fried, I think he tried to stop and unclip, but he just slowed down, stopped, and tipped over.

T2 looked like it was full of zombies.
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [Longrunhome] [ In reply to ]
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I have a couple of thoughts on the 2 x 70.3 course option. First of all, it was short as it was by 3.4km. Double this and couple it with the fact you are probably not going to go back down to Alta lake on the second loop (although I guess you could but it was a pretty bad road surface with a bunch of driveway accesses) and you're looking at a course of under 170km. To extend (which for IM you'd have to get to at least 176?) could mean a trip further up Callaghan or alternatively up those nasty switchbacks on the way to Pemberton before turning around and coming back. Either way likely means more climbing than even 2x the 70.3 which may impact registrations. Also, I found the 70.3 VERY crowded until we turned around and headed back to Whistler with both races on course at the same time. 3000 people on the double loop might not exactly be IMAZ crowded but with some of those descents over 80km/h, I was passing the IM BOPers just hoping they held their line and didn't do anything dangerous. All said, loved the course as a 70.3 even if a bit crowded and short, but would still need some tweaking to make it a two loop full. FWIW - I averaged 1km/hr slower at Whistler than CdA 70.3 on 6 more watts (AP & NP).
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [triracerboy] [ In reply to ]
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triracerboy wrote:
nothing set yet that i have seen.
2 times the current 70.3 route would be about 2,300 meters of climbing on a constantly rolling course. Not crazy bad but not easy.

Why couldn't the route head towards Squamish and ride out the flats in Paradise valley / Squamish Valley road? I think they used to have the provincial Time Trial championships out there - Nice road and is north of Squamish so would not affect Squamish too badly.

I really like the current route so its too bad that Ironman cant make it work in Pemberton (or maybe they are working on that as website still has old course on it?)

That's only 7,544 feet of climbing over 112 miles. Maybe just train for that, it will be that much climbing for everyone else. These courses up in Canada sound awesome, worth the extra climbing IMO. Think of it this way, if you train for that you'll crush flatter courses after that ;)
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Re: IM Canada 2018 bike route? [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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There seems to be quite a few routes that would work subject to road approval and locals.

1. Down to Brackendale and out the flats on Sqaumish valley road - this would be a great ride with a tough but not too steep return to Whistler
2. do Calighan - then ride 10km south of calighan and turn around - ride down to Lillooet lake (gorgeous setting) and return (turning around before the climb) - this would just be slightly more climbing that the current course and would be almost entirely on the hwy (except for the ride up Calighan)
3. Ride out to Darcy - awesome ride which from Whistler is about 155km return and about 1500 meters of climbing (i think) - the other 25km could be an out and back towards calighan but not up it.
4. current route
5. double loop of 70.3

1-4 would all be awesome. I am not sure why Ironman cant do a deal with the local communities. Offer 20 free spots for residents? They could hold the volunteer party in one of those locations? I am sure if they increased community involvement it would be a no brainer for one of the affected communities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkT_d2OTgv0
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