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IMMT course help
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I’ve done IMWI and IMLOU.
I’m doing IMMT this year. Can someone describe the bike and run courses compared to IMWI/LOU ?
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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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I've raced Tremblant 4x (two 70.3 and two 140.6), but haven't done either of the other races.

The bike course has a decent amount of climbing, but the majority is on real good quality roads, and only the final 20k of each loop is all that steep. I last raced there in 2015 and had very consistent laps by paying attention to my power - second lap was only one minute slower than the first one (2:25 and 2:26).

The run course is about 5k of rolling hills to a bike path, then around 5.5k to the turn-around on the bike path. It's a very slight downgrade on the way out on the bike path. The hills feel a lot bigger on the second loop, and there's a punchy little hill next to the lake that you end up doing four times on the two-loop course.

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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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It haven't done the others but the bike IMMT course can be described as...

"Reasonably hilly, but you're still better off with a tri bike with a disc wheel"

There's a few rollers, a few medium sized hills, but there's really only 2 areas to worry about:
-a longish climb on hwy 117, which is more long than steep
-the area on Chemin duplesis which is more steep than long

Depending on how strong you are as a cyclist, you may want to consider a compact crankset. I was fine on regular gearing (5:35 bike time at IMMT in 2015, but I've done 2:28 on a HIM flat course since), but I've heard others say it helps them spin it out on Duplessis.

I'll be doing it a second time this year for my second IM. The bike course is unmatched as far as pavement quality goes.

The nice part about it is they have it set up as a training centre during the summer - signs saying watch for the athletes, a double wide shoulder, km markers along the route. If you'e nearby, there's always the option of doing a dry run. I use the IMMT course as a training ground even for other races.
Last edited by: timbasile: Mar 15, 18 18:55
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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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I've done IMWI (1st IM) and IMMT (2nd IM) and nothing else. I know the IMWI pretty well since I use it for training too. The bike course a little easier for IMMT. The roads at IMMT are smoother (essentially pristine) and it is less technical. When you go up, you go back down straight usually. I felt there was more turning and braking going down at IMWI. I had a lot less VI, variability index. Chemin Duplessis was hard going up it twice, but I'd rather do that then barlow (didn't race on it and seems like now back to old course). I liked having a compact for the course. I spun out a couple of times, but only briefly.


For the run, I liked the IMWI course more. IMWI was relatively flatter from my recollection. Also both races have amazing support, but at IMWI it was for the whole race. IMMT had some lonely spots on the trail, except for other racers.
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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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Raced IMMT last year. My first and so far only IM but with more to come. The course was decently hilly, not much different than typical Northeast riding especially here in New England. With the exception of the final climb on the bike leg. That was evil. Great quality roads I can see why it's known for it's great quality bike course. Run is mostly flat on a bike trail, some describe it as boring I describe it as beautiful since it's through the woods.

I still lapped everyone on the couch!
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Re: IMMT course help [hubcaps] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you very much all. Just trying to figure out what sort of hills I’m facing. Looking forward to August.
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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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I have done last year IMLOU and IMMT for the first time both

marathon course is definitely very fast and flat in LOU and honestly one of the best marathon course within an Ironman
Bike has a similar total ascent but distributed very differently
Lou bike is continuous rollers, never steep, and it is in a nice countryside. Bad road quality only in a short section right after the bike start. rest is pretty good quality
MT bike is less rolling with very fast long small gradient descents but you get a very hilly final 20k where you need to switch gears continuously, between big and small chainring. some short sections are very steep, 15-17% but very short where you should use well the momentum from the previous flat or downhill.

the swim in MT is really great, LOU is a dirty river, which depending on the days can be more or less clean.

the marathon in MT is a pain in the butt. you have rollers at beginning of the loop which can be a killer on the second loop. you need to be a very strong runner to be solid until the end. i found it to be a very tough course. and my best leg is running!
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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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I've done both MT and Lou... both were fun, but the Mont-Tremblant area is hard to beat. In terms of the bike course you will have some more sustained climbing instead of the constant rollers you had at IMLou. The last 20k or so can be brutal, especially the second time around. I saw quite a few people walking. I rode the course ahead of time and didn't think it was too bad... I was mistaken. I would definitely recommend riding on your bike ahead of time to get an understanding of how to best ride the hills. People made a big deal of the no passing zone last year, but you can see why it's there and it didn't impact my race at all.
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Re: IMMT course help [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]
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IMMT course:

Excellent single loop swim with self seeding. Cool water that is comfortable with a wetsuit. Long run to T1 on carpeted path. Great swim.

Two loop bike course with a lot of rollers. Great roads. Generally, a pretty manageable course, but the last little uphill spur at around 100 miles kicked my ass. Pace yourself for the that last bit of climbing. You will see it on the end of the first lap.

Run has some up and down, but isn’t especially scary. It is a two lap point-and-back course, with the return legs (2nd and 4th quarter of the race) being more downhill. Great crowd support and cool finish back in the village.

All around, one of the best IM races.
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Re: IMMT course help [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks
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Re: IMMT course help [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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Poon wrote:
IMMT course:

Excellent single loop swim with self seeding. Cool water that is comfortable with a wetsuit. Long run to T1 on carpeted path. Great swim.

Two loop bike course with a lot of rollers. Great roads. Generally, a pretty manageable course, but the last little uphill spur at around 100 miles kicked my ass. Pace yourself for the that last bit of climbing. You will see it on the end of the first lap.

Run has some up and down, but isn’t especially scary. It is a two lap point-and-back course, with the return legs (2nd and 4th quarter of the race) being more downhill. Great crowd support and cool finish back in the village.

All around, one of the best IM races.

I’m 175, maybe 170 by race day. FTP 275.
Is a 52/36 front 11-28 sufficient or should I go 50/34 + 11-30?
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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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Hard to say... I had similar power numbers but was 30# heavier. I have a compact crank and went 11/32 on the back and it still sucked. Your best bet is to find some hills close to you that mimic the climbs at MT and try them out.
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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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You should be fine. You have a better FTP than I do. My problem is that I didn’t pace myself well and underestimated that last piece of the course.
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Re: IMMT course help [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say if you're on the fence, you can't go wrong having more granny gears for that punchy, steep last section of the bike loop. I had totally inadequate gearing when I did the 70.3 (11-23 cassette... I know, I know) and my legs were utterly trashed by 3 km into the run. Didn't make for a fun day.
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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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KingMidas wrote:
Poon wrote:
IMMT course:

Excellent single loop swim with self seeding. Cool water that is comfortable with a wetsuit. Long run to T1 on carpeted path. Great swim.

Two loop bike course with a lot of rollers. Great roads. Generally, a pretty manageable course, but the last little uphill spur at around 100 miles kicked my ass. Pace yourself for the that last bit of climbing. You will see it on the end of the first lap.

Run has some up and down, but isn’t especially scary. It is a two lap point-and-back course, with the return legs (2nd and 4th quarter of the race) being more downhill. Great crowd support and cool finish back in the village.

All around, one of the best IM races.


I’m 175, maybe 170 by race day. FTP 275.
Is a 52/36 front 11-28 sufficient or should I go 50/34 + 11-30?

I'm not -that- much different than you, not quite as strong. I came in a bit heavy last year at 182, similar ftp to you, maybe 5% less. I was very happy to have the 34/28 gear for the steep sections, and in fact I may take a 32 on the back this year just to allow me to spin up that much easier.
I know a lot of folks say its not -that- hilly, but it adds up, especially for those of us who don't weigh 150. It's still 6000 feet of climbing.
For reference, I've done a 2:24 on a flatish 70.3, best I've done in MT 70.3 (done all 6) is 2:32, and best time I've done at the full IMMT (four tries) is about 5:38....

I doubt you'd have any issue with a 36/28, but if you have access to a compact crank, I'd take it just in case, won't hurt!
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Re: IMMT course help [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]
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Toefuzz wrote:
Hard to say... I had similar power numbers but was 30# heavier. I have a compact crank and went 11/32 on the back and it still sucked. Your best bet is to find some hills close to you that mimic the climbs at MT and try them out.

Lol. I live in Tampa. If you raise your hand 400 miles away, I’ll see you.


Ok. Thanks all. I’ll just go compact and 11-30. Compact plus 11-28 wasn’t enough for Barlow in IMWI. On my lowest gear, at 50RPM, I was at 350W. In hindsight I should have walked it up because it along with the rest of the IMWI hills destroyed me.
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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think you can go wrong with having too many easy gears, especially if you're in FL and struggle to find hills to train on. There are a few fast descents, I was close to 50 mph at one point, but I wouldn't worry too much about spinning out. You'll be better off having the gear to spin up those last hills after 100 miles of riding.
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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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This is not a scientific response but merely from a solid MOP'er who has done IMWI 3 times, IMLOU 2 times and IMMT just once.

Bike courses: I am a very average biker and live in a flat area so I found IMWI the hardest of the 3. Mostly because its more technical and the climbs were starting from a turn and the road quality isn't nearly as good as LOU and nowhere near as good as IMMT. I found LOU and MT courses about equally as difficult but the difference being most of the hard work at LOU was done by mile 90 and the last 20 miles were slightly downhill and flatter whereas IMMT its the last 20 miles or so that can get you if you overbiked up to that point.

Run Courses: IMLOU is pancake flat and is easy as it gets. Both IMWI and IMMT have some hills and false flats but not that difficult to manage. IMWI has by far the best crowd support of the three but the support at LOU and IMMT are both good as well.

Overall I would have to say IMMT is my overall favorite of the three. They go all out there to spoil you. Great roads, fireworks show, beautiful area , .....and tons for the family to do. Best of luck!!
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Re: IMMT course help [steve1128] [ In reply to ]
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steve1128 wrote:
This is not a scientific response but merely from a solid MOP'er who has done IMWI 3 times, IMLOU 2 times and IMMT just once.

Bike courses: I am a very average biker and live in a flat area so I found IMWI the hardest of the 3. Mostly because its more technical and the climbs were starting from a turn and the road quality isn't nearly as good as LOU and nowhere near as good as IMMT. I found LOU and MT courses about equally as difficult but the difference being most of the hard work at LOU was done by mile 90 and the last 20 miles were slightly downhill and flatter whereas IMMT its the last 20 miles or so that can get you if you overbiked up to that point.

Run Courses: IMLOU is pancake flat and is easy as it gets. Both IMWI and IMMT have some hills and false flats but not that difficult to manage. IMWI has by far the best crowd support of the three but the support at LOU and IMMT are both good as well.

Overall I would have to say IMMT is my overall favorite of the three. They go all out there to spoil you. Great roads, fireworks show, beautiful area , .....and tons for the family to do. Best of luck!!

Thanks.
I agree that IMLOU bike course is a lot easier than IMWI even though on paper it’s twice the elevation gain.
I didn’t think the run course of IMWI is that bad but I was beaten up by the bike course to do well on the run. That you think the run is similar to IMWI is encouraging.
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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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KingMidas wrote:
I’ve done IMWI and IMLOU.
I’m doing IMMT this year. Can someone describe the bike and run courses compared to IMWI/LOU ?

I’ve done both IMWI and IMMT, and the courses are pretty different.

As others have said...the swim course is simply awesome. The wave start and single loop was great, and the clear, cool lake nestled in the hills was simply fantastic. I set my IM win PR there. There is a bit of run from the swim exit to T1, but it’s not bad, and you don’t have to run 3 stories up a helix.

The bike course is definitely hilly, but in a different way from IMWI. The first part of the course is rolling with hills that you can maintain speed down and use your momentum to get up the other side. You end up on a highway that is an out and back, and you have a long, steady climb that isn’t like anything at IMWI (and IIRC, there is an aid station right about in the middle of the hill). Then it’s back on the rollers to where you started, and then an out and back on the Chemin Duplessis. This is where it gets real at IMMT. The Chemin is twisty with some short, steep hills. Nothing terribly long, but you go up and down on the out portion while steadily gaining altitude. On the way back in, you can really gain speed and attack the course a bit if you are a confident bike handler. I’m not sure where the no pass regions have been implemented on the course on the Chemin, as they didn’t have them in 2015, but you can maintain a lot of speed if you try. I highly recommend pre-riding the Chemin if you get a chance to get a feel for the punchy climbs on the out portion, and the way to use momentum to your advantage on the way back in. The tough part of the Chemin is that it comes right at the end of each lap. So, it doesn’t feel too bad at the end of the first lap, but it packs a punch on the 2nd. Be prepared for folks walking their bikes on the 2nd lap on the outbound portion. Lastly, I asked this very question back in 2015, so there is a thread with a lot of great info if you do a search. Bottom line is that some people think IMWI is tougher, while some folks think IMMT is tougher. The thing that makes IMWI hard is all of the tight turns at the bottom of hills that wipe out a lot of momentum; you generally don’t have that on the bike course at IMMT.

The run course couldn’t be more different. You head out of T2 and directly into about 3 miles of rolling hills, then on to a long out and back on a trail through the woods. The run through the village is cool, with tons of crowds, but the trail is pretty quiet.

All in all, I loved IMMT. Fantastic organization, and some great touches, like the rock concert on the Friday night before the race. There is also tons of stuff to do in the ski village. I’d like to go back and do that race again some day.

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Re: IMMT course help [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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KingMidas wrote:
Poon wrote:
IMMT course:

Excellent single loop swim with self seeding. Cool water that is comfortable with a wetsuit. Long run to T1 on carpeted path. Great swim.

Two loop bike course with a lot of rollers. Great roads. Generally, a pretty manageable course, but the last little uphill spur at around 100 miles kicked my ass. Pace yourself for the that last bit of climbing. You will see it on the end of the first lap.

Run has some up and down, but isn’t especially scary. It is a two lap point-and-back course, with the return legs (2nd and 4th quarter of the race) being more downhill. Great crowd support and cool finish back in the village.

All around, one of the best IM races.

I’m 175, maybe 170 by race day. FTP 275.
Is a 52/36 front 11-28 sufficient or should I go 50/34 + 11-30?

You'll likely be fine on standard gears. I'm 170 with an FTP of 240 and handled it fine. Though at the time I was on longer cranks - 175mms which helped.
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