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IMFL course reactions
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Ok, the new IMFL course is out. I’d prefer this not be a Ironman slam thread. Personally, I feel they are really doing a heroic job to try to pull off this move in such a short time under pretty challenging circumstances. What I’m really seeking for is any of you experienced ST IM types—what’s your reactions to the new course? Here are several of mine (FWIW):

1. Swim course, although not ideal given the shape, is probably fine for the first lap. I think the second will be a challenge. It’s a rolling start and with around 1500-2000 likely starters it’s hard to imagine that fast swimmers won’t have to navigate through a large chunk of the back of the pack. Will be slow for sure. That combined with a likely fresh water non wetsuit swim makes this even more likely. Could be some folks getting in trouble due to traffic on 2nd lap given high percentage of new IM types....

2. Bike course looks just fine. Obviously hillier than PCB but at 2,700 vertical it’s hardly hilly. Something like 50+ turns and a few U-turns but over 112 miles not a big deal. Will give opportunities to change position rather than 112 miles of locked in aero at PCB! Slower, harder bike course than PCB but strong cyclists will likely like it.

3. The run course has over 100 turns, which is unprecedented in my experience. Probably not a big factor but as the run wears on I suspect we’ll be wondering where the heck we are! Much hillier than PCB, in fact more hilly on a linear distance basis than the bike course, it will be a real challenge, especially for weaker runners and people who overcook the bike (looking in the mirror here!). Also, there is the likely potential for hotter temps so could be a rougher run.

4. On balance, while not the most attractive course, it’s great under the circumstances, is a fair test for would be Ironman, and will be noticeably harder than PCB for those who have done it before. Best to ratchet back your time expectations!

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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Of course I could come up with a lot of gripes about the course....though probably not as many as my husband will have after waiting for me in that park with nothing to do all day. I’m just impressed that they were able to throw something together and am feeling inspired by the city being so happy to have us. No complaints from me. And definitely not looking to over analyze the course the could come up eith on the fly. If they wanted me to run around in a circle 500x, I would still be happy to do it so long as I get to race.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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I've done the Florida 70.3 five times, 3 at Disney and 2 at Haines City. After finishing Haines City this past April I said I would never come back. I should have knocked on wood because I'm about "...to get a double dose of my baby's love"!

I never thought the swim was that bad as long as you stay attentive. I do agree with you that the second lap could be problematic depending on the crowd. We simply won't know the no show rate until race morning. Re water temperature, I am amazed at how many people are so certain it won't be wetsuit legal when I am just as convinced it will be. It is a shallow pond that reacts swiftly to temperature changes and there are a lot of cool mornings over the next week. I am in Tampa and the front is moving through today ... can feel it outside. Bring a sleeveless!

Bike. This is the best part of the venue with a decidedly more scenic and slightly more challenging route. But will there be any refs? There were NONE at the 70.3 this year and the untold story is IM had pissed off the local motorcycle club who refused to support the race and made sure the other local clubs did not step in. I sure hope they have kissed and made up so we don't have a draftfest.

Run. Given the geographical and road constraints this was probably the best they could do. It will be epically bad and might be the hardest of any current IM on the circuit.

All told, a much more difficult course than PCB. Anyone planning a 16+ hour finish at PCB will probably DNF this course.
Last edited by: HuffNPuff: Oct 27, 18 11:50
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Re: IMFL course reactions [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Agree with everything you said. Done the 70.3 4 times. Looks like the the swim course is a different shaped M which might help. The 70.3 course is a washing machine maybe it will spread out more. Bike course is great.... well except the bumpy section that about 2 miles long. That run course though different from the 70.3 is going create a big DNF. Florida 70.3 is a hard race looks like they trying make it a little bit easier for the full.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the input! Great to get perspectives from someone who been there done dat! When you say the run will be epically bad, could you elaborate? they list the total climb as 788 feet, which at the end of the day does not seem that bad.

For example, here are some other listed vertical climbs:

Lake Placid: 1,604
UK: 1,024
Kona: 1,009
Wisconsin: 946
Boulder: 898

While its not PCB for sure (nor other flat races like Western Australia, Louisville, Arizona, etc.) it doesn't seem radically different. Is the estimated vertical off or is it some other factor like concrete or all those turns?

Thanks for your help!

rc

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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You state bike course is 2,700 vertical feet in first thread than later say 788 feet? Which is it?
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Re: IMFL course reactions [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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I'm highly skeptical of any elevation posted by IM. It is not in their best interest to accurately describe difficult courses. Regardless, the elevation plus the ridiculous number of turns will make this both a physical and mental challenge.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [tomk407] [ In reply to ]
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He said the RUN was 788 feet.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
I'm highly skeptical of any elevation posted by IM. It is not in their best interest to accurately describe difficult courses. Regardless, the elevation plus the ridiculous number of turns will make this both a physical and mental challenge.

The "UPSIDE" is that it will allow (and even demand) one to stay in the moment. Think positive....
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Re: IMFL course reactions [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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ggeiger wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:
I'm highly skeptical of any elevation posted by IM. It is not in their best interest to accurately describe difficult courses. Regardless, the elevation plus the ridiculous number of turns will make this both a physical and mental challenge.

The "UPSIDE" is that it will allow (and even demand) one to stay in the moment. Think positive....

Control what you can control...

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: IMFL course reactions [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
ggeiger wrote:
HuffNPuff wrote:
I'm highly skeptical of any elevation posted by IM. It is not in their best interest to accurately describe difficult courses. Regardless, the elevation plus the ridiculous number of turns will make this both a physical and mental challenge.


The "UPSIDE" is that it will allow (and even demand) one to stay in the moment. Think positive....


Control what you can control...

Exactly....It could even be a help to stay focused.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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rcmioga wrote:
Thanks for the input! Great to get perspectives from someone who been there done dat! When you say the run will be epically bad, could you elaborate? they list the total climb as 788 feet, which at the end of the day does not seem that bad.

For example, here are some other listed vertical climbs:

Lake Placid: 1,604
UK: 1,024
Kona: 1,009
Wisconsin: 946
Boulder: 898

While its not PCB for sure (nor other flat races like Western Australia, Louisville, Arizona, etc.) it doesn't seem radically different. Is the estimated vertical off or is it some other factor like concrete or all those turns?

Thanks for your help!

rc

IMCHOO is harder as well. I ran it in 2014 and my watch shows about 1200 ft. I ran IMLP for 3 years and my watch shows anywhere between 700-1200 ft. I think it's closer to 1,200. I did LP70.3 last month and my watch shows 460ft.

Per what someone wrote this is a run course you have to stay focused and really pay attention where you are going. It's going to be easy to make a mistake. I am sure there will be plenty of people directing us but I am sure people will make mistakes.

14X Ironman. Still slow but working on it.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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I hear that! At 61 and needing a 3 foot metal brace on my knee all the IM runs take their toll on me these days! Ironically, I picked PCB for my 15th and final IM because it was my first and mostly because of the easy run....life is an adventure!

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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rcmioga wrote:
I hear that! At 61 and needing a 3 foot metal brace on my knee all the IM runs take their toll on me these days! Ironically, I picked PCB for my 15th and final IM because it was my first and mostly because of the easy run....life is an adventure!

I'm also 61 and IMFL was my first race because it was the closest and because I went to High School in Panama City. I don't need a brace on my knee but I now run like I was shot in the left leg. This will be #14 and I'll be heading straight to surgery 4 days later for a hernia. I still have two IMs on tap next year and that MAY be it for full distance ... at least until I age up to M65. :)
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Re: IMFL course reactions [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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awesome! good luck--maybe we can limp along together--two bad left leg old dudes! I'm bib #20--see you out there!

rc

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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#441
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Re: IMFL course reactions [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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oops--bib #19. How does the water temp forecast look down there? seems like it got colder--bringing my wetsuit....

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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rcmioga wrote:
How does the water temp forecast look down there? seems like it got colder--bringing my wetsuit....

Wetsuits? good god I hope not... current water temp 82*

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: IMFL course reactions [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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I have said repeatedly on Facebook that the water temp website people are referring to is incredibly inaccurate. Interesting, how it says 82 every day regardless of weather. An athlete measured it at 77 on Saturday and we've had two cold mornings since. Its 57 in Tampa right now. I would bet money the water is currently below 74. It's a tiny pond. Baynews9 has the freaking Gulf of Mexico at 75 right now (Clearwater Beach). My head is going to explode the next time someone tells me Lake Eva is 82!
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Re: IMFL course reactions [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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either way, a wetsuit swim in 76 degree water will be terrible...

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: IMFL course reactions [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Concur. I'm bringing a sleeveless if we are lucky and get low 70s, a shorty in event of barely legal water, and a swim skin just in case.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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Someone plotted the new bike/run courses on RideWithGPS (thank!)
It is showing the run total climb as 800 feet and the bike's as 2,330
Biggest grade on the bike is about 4%, so nothing too serious


Run: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28838032
Bike: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/28833233
Last edited by: dgutstadt: Oct 29, 18 7:49
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Re: IMFL course reactions [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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1. Regardless of experienced athletes or not, 2000+ people swimming that pants layout is going to be crowded. Cinch those goggles on and be ready for contact or swim wide. Interior turns will get hairy for sure.

2. Not sure I'd call the bike "harder". Being locked into aero and powering the course for 112 miles is more challenging in my opinion than hills with a chance to recover on the down side. I think racers will be pleasantly surprised how they were able to handle the course.

3. I actually like having the turns as looking ahead and seeing the next turn miles away is mentally draining as well. I'm also looking forward to seeing the family SEVERAL times compared to only 4 for the PCB course. Plays to my strengths on the run as we having around the same hill experience here in KC.

4. I would keep that in mind due to the temps. We will probably be warmer and more humid than PCB. I know in Kansas City we are in 40's and 30's at night and losing that heat adaptation quickly. Fluids will be key on the bike for sure. It will be more challenging on the run, but like you said, who pulls off a full IM course from nowhere 4 weeks out from race day?

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans
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Re: IMFL course reactions [TriJayhawkRyan] [ In reply to ]
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TriJayhawkRyan wrote:
1. Regardless of experienced athletes or not, 2000+ people swimming that pants layout is going to be crowded. Cinch those goggles on and be ready for contact or swim wide. Interior turns will get hairy for sure.

That is the question of the day! With about 300 taking deferments to TX, what will be the no-show rate for IMFL? How many people are there that for whatever reason could neither defer nor will be able to race (e.g., the lady who broke her collar bone this past Friday after the deferral period passed). Matt Miller says the deferral rate was 12%.but that would have picked up some folks who weren't going to be able to make IMFL even before the hurricane hit. With the a typical no show rate of 10-15% I'm going to speculate on a no-show rate of 13% to 23% plus the deferral so a net drop of 25% - 35% of the original field. Additional sign-ups for the few days they opened registration will be negligible. Assuming 2600 original field based on 12% = ~300, then I would project a starting field of between 1700 - 1950 max.

PURE SPECULATION. We will find out Sunday morning. Either way, the second loop of the swim will indeed be very crowded.
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Re: IMFL course reactions [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Hopefully most deferrals and no shows come from the 40-44 AG since it's one of the largest... and least amount of last minute sign ups.
I'll be all set. ;)

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans
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