This is so true. I lined up in the 1:00-1:10 coral. I looked over at the sub-60 and hardly anyone was there. Wished I would have moved over there, but the cannon went off and I just went behind 30-deep into the waves. Mistake.

I think a lot of it comes down to ego. I am a FOP swimmer who does a lot of time trial swim starts every year and it is unbelievable how many people wildly overestimate or outright lie about their swim times when they have to enter a time at sign up. It is never as bad at mass starts where placing yourself in the crowd is more anonymous.

I think in previous IMFL swim starts people have been more likely to place themselves more or less accurately in the crowd, but when forced to stand next to a sign listing their supposed swim time, many didn't want to look that "slow." Combine this phenomenon with not using the whole beach and it's a recipe for a cluster**** swim.

I swam 32 and 35 for 1:07. I lined up in 1:10+ (thought was to get to the front and stay wide until I could merge into a pack of similar speed...not to swim 1:10+) and ended up just getting pummeled by faster guys who'd lined up further down the beach coming into the buoy line. By the second lap all I wanted was to finish the swim with as little contact as possible.

Who came up with that plan? A dyslexic 6 year old? Really, that was the dumbest thing I've seen a race director do in in a long time. IM Mont-Tremblant did it right, IMHO.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Agreed. There is no way to do a rolling start at Florida because of the light. I thought the swim was very physical until the first turn buoy. After we headed back and for the entire second loop I didn't think it was that bad. I started right in line with the sign for the 60-70 minute swim time and went 1:03.

The only other mass start I did was IM Cozumel and that was pretty close to the same amount of contact but a single loop swim. I've also done the TT start at Louisville, where I started within the last 100 people, and would take the swim at Florida over that any day.

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I agree with Ironma'am. It would be better for the slower swimmers to enter the water a few seconds after faster swimmers. Most people at the west (slower swimmers) end of the pack were trying to get over to the first buoy, causing a crush in the middle. This was exacerbated by the breaking rollers and the current. While it was hard for many swimmers to use their regular stroke until after the first turn, it was great after that point.

Was not superior for me either. Based on the advice of my fellow STers, I seeded myself in the 1:21-1:30 group and ended up going 1:16 (38 plus 38). Lots of contact - bashing, getting kicked everywhere. At one point some guy caught my head with his catch and pushed me completely under (he did say sorry).... not so much getting swum over through - I think I was only swum over twice both by people going sideways over me to cut over to a buoy line. The more frustrating part though was that I just could not find any clean water and really get into a rhythm - so it was a rough swim the whole way. I wonder if at IMFL they could have a mass seeded start by having an out and back course where each seeded group swims around its own last buoy like this:

sub60 --------------------------------- ()

1:00-1:10 ----------------------------- ()

1:10-1:20 -------------------------------()

etc.

Where the -- indicates the swim line and the () indicates the final turn buoy. That way everyone starts at the same time - if they place the starts maybe 15 feet from each other everyone gets the same swim and it breaks up the groups a bit.

Well Robert, I guess in part that was me.

We were empowered/ challenged to try some different things starting our IRONMAN events and that is what we have done. The idea of the self-seeded mass start was for people to be surrounded by people of their own ability, then they could make the decision to stay with them or fill in behind the faster swimmers. Slower swimmers where staged wider where the prevailing West to East current that would naturally push them towards turn one, the actual distance from any where in the corral to turn one is negligible (maybe a few meters).

Obviously race day conditions were not ideal and this I think has influenced opinions, the congestion point seems to have merely moved to the middle from the inside line but again everyone getting slammed by breaking waves didn't really give the idea a fair playing field.

So you are in favor of the wave starts we did in Mont Tremblant? I really liked the idea of the rolling start and 'am glad we got to try that this year!

I did both IM Mont Tremblant and IM Florida Sat, without a doubt, IMMT was way way way better. Without getting into the competition aspect of wave starts, IMMT wave start was the best of the 6 IM races I have done (IMKY, 3xIMLP, IMMT, IMFL). I average 1:12 for my swims, so I lined up in the 1:11-1:20 group and got clobbered until the first turn buoy. It was worse than my IMLP mass start swims and I did not think that would be possible before we started. At MT I was in wave 6 of 9 (M45-49), we entered the water at 06:51 and last group was 07:00. as a MOP swimmer there was very little contact and overall a clean swim. I imagine this is what the FOP get to see. Of course have only 1 lap makes it easier that a 2 loop swim. Every race is not the same and what works for one may not work for others, but almost everyone who swam >1:10 will agree, the swim start at IMFL did work. Ditch that plan and go back to a mass start or a rolling start. The other thing was why do wetsuit stripping in the sand, is that normal for IMFL or new this year also. I took and extra bit of time showering sand off and saw many racers with sand all over their back during the rest of the race. In hindsight, I should have blown past strippers and done it in T1. Just my opinion FWIW. Oh, I finished swim in 1:15 and 10:50 overall. Thanks

I agree. This was my 7th IMFL and I started in the 1:10-1:20 area. Epic fail. I have not spoken with one athlete who thought the self seeding was a good idea. People self sedded much better without the signs.

I don't think the breaking waves had anything to do with the congestion after the first 90 seconds. I really think that blaming the surf for the failure of the self-seeded "swim safe" would be the wrong lesson for a race director to take from this race -- that's just wishful thinking. The dullards who waddled into the waves instead of running/swimming/duck-diving were a problem, but only at the very start.

I seeded in the right spot, with swimmers of my own speed, and got the crap beaten out of me for the first 20 minutes, when I decided to just swim the rest of the course wide to avoid the crowd.

I agree with the commenter above who said the corrals were too narrow -- If I had seeded myself at the front line of the slower 1:20-1:30 group, instead of the middle of the proper 1:10-1:20 group, I'd have been much better off. As it was, I ended up behind people in the front row of the 1:30+ corrals, but ahead of people at the back of the sub-60-minute corral. This faulty system just encourages people to game the system by seeding themselves in the wrong place in the wrong corrals.

Why not have a pseudo-wave-start, but have the sub-60-minute self-seeded corral be in the front and the 2:00+ at the back? And have everyone's time start when they cross a timing mat at or near the water's edge?

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<The Dew Abides>

The wave corrals were 90 degrees off. Once I realized that seminal error I simply put myself back. Please don't use that approach again. I think it will almost guarantee more bad experiences for the newbies. I've done 141 races so I think I have some chops in this suey. ;)

Sorry if I came across a bit too sarcastic. The race was wonderfully run otherwise. (except the finisher hats don't have a year on them). The volunteers were almost beyond belief. Even the natives were out there pushing us through the run course. Send roses to Mother Nature for cooperating.... Friday looked like a duathlon was coming.

This was my second trip to IM Florida and I hope to do it again in 2018.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Agreed! It was a really tough swim for me. If I had to do it over again, I would ignore the timings and go way right and get a clean line to the first buoy. Started between the sub 1:00 - 1:10 and ended up 1:08 but felt like I could have been sub 1:00 without the traffic. Saw a lots, including me, who got a extra dose of neck chafing from swimming so long in a heads up position.

Tim,

Thanks for working so hard on the event and getting everyone out of the water safely.

Thanks also for making adjustments on the course from previous years to make it clear that people needed to round that first red corner buoy on lap two. That removed a large gray area (at least one in my mind).

Regarding this year, I don't claim to know exactly what happened, but just to give you one more perspective/data point on the whole thing:

I have done IMFL 3 times, 2011 - 1:01 in perfect seas, 2012 1:03 in pretty rough conditions, 2013: 1:04:45.

Based on my 2 previous swims, my current swim condition, and my experience with the race, I stood to the right of the sign that was 60 minutes and under (which I think put me in the 60 to 70 minute corral. I had every intention of going 0:59 this year if the conditions were there for it.

There was only one person in front of me, so my problem wasn't from running into people at the breakers, I got through that area pretty quickly, but soon after that, I got absolutely beaten down for a good while. It got to the point that I really didn't know what to do, it felt like I wasn't making any forward progress as all, just getting punched, kicked, tangled, pulled under, swam over, and swimming over. Maybe by the time I was in sight of turn buoy, it lessened some, but once I hit that buoy, it was nasty until turn #2. It continued part of the way to the beach on that leg as well.

I hit the beach right at 30 minutes and headed back out and things were finally manageable at that point, though judging from my time on the second lap, I think that the damage had been done at that point (or my sighting was garbage on the second lap).

All I can say is that the effort to improve our saftey is appreciated (at least by me), but this particular tactic did not work and I feel that it was the most open water contact I have ever had and certainly worse than my previous 2 years at IMFL.

I hope this helps in the quest to keep improving the race. For the record, I am not a fan of TT starts; mass starts are always my preference, so I understand that some contact is going to be a part of it. I just think that this particular effort ended up being a step in the wrong direction and causing more contact.

Thanks

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

Robert-

It didn't seem that well thought out, no biggie though.

The confusing part was the times of self seeding were along the beach from right to left. Instead at IMFL you should put people in a gated line front are the faster swimmers and slower swimmers in the back, but put them in like corrals so they are packed somewhat tight. That way when the gun goes off it is a smaller streamed line race into the ocean not everyone going in at once.

(Note I prefer a mass swim myself, that is what Ironman is about)

FYI the "rest rafts/buoys" shouldn't be tied to the turn buoys, as you know that is the point of most congestion no one in their right mind would hang at that buoy they would get crushed. (I don't think you need them personally in Ironman) Instead have them tied to a kayak or something like that.

Great job as always overall, love the colored buoys...really helps!

I agree with Medevil Times.

Given the width of the beach, why not line athletes up parallel to the shore and have a self seeded rolling start? Since it's proven to work at other venus why not here? And it's proven to be quick as well.

I can appreciate the safety aspect in the swim safe program effort but this year was a step backwards compared to the last four years.

This was my first IM but I don't understand the big issue here. Watching videos of past years swim starts I prepared myself mentally for what I got Saturday. I agree with the statement that the seeding corrals certainly helped the FOP guys. The under 60min corral looked emptied compared to the 1:10 sign I was standing next to. I think the biggest problem was people not knowing their talents. I checked my ego when I stepped under the arch to the start, but think a lot of people have a problem with that. There were a lot of people in the 1hr-1:10 corral that didn't swim that time.

This is basically what "mass start" at IMFL has been in the past. Just leave it as mass start and because the beach is wide enough, folks will trickle into the water accordingly as it's always been there.

I underestimated my time which I was basing on previous 70.3 swims in less-rough water and this was my first 140.6. I went to the mid-rear of the 1:30+ area and it was nothing but asses, elbows, feet, and fists the entire first lap. I finished around 1:26, and that's a 41 first lap and backing way off pace 2nd lap as given the congestion I wondered if I hadn't went out too hard in the rumble. I had goggles fill 4x from feet or fists and had to side stroke a couple times to unfill and reseat them. There was no where to escape or get around... no moving to the outside whatsoever the first lap. I did find a few holes just enough to slide (or force?) my body into. Second lap got better and I found some open water to the inside. None of the video I've seen does justice to the massive horde of people and mess that was the middle of the pack.

I'm not sure how it could have been any worse unless there were just more people. I'm not complaining, just stating what I experienced. I had fun even on the swim! It seems like a chip-timed rolling start would be the best method. Might also reduce some congestion on the bike the first 10 miles or so.

The other option would be to start further to the right. I know a few people that did that and had a 'peaceful' swim.

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Bottom line: spread racers as wide as possible across the start line. Any time swimmers are corralled into a narrower area, you will cause an unpleasant experience, both for any slower swimmers in front, and for faster swimmers coming through from behind. Give them all more space, and they have, well, more space.

As many have said, the beach in IMFL is wide. Use the beach's width to the maximum that is logistically possible. It's as simple as that.

I recently watched a mini version of this: 90 kids in a 15-foot wide start corral on a beach. Total disaster, made worse by the big differences in size and swimming ability between the kids (7-8 yrs old). While 90 was too big of a wave full stop, if they had been allowed to spread out across the beach it would have improved the situation significantly.

I have some (3x IM Finisher) but not as much experience as most of you. I made the mistake of believing that it was going to be a start similar to IMLP 2013 (which worked great once you hit the first turn buoy). I lined up in the 1:10 grouping thinking that we would filter in behind the previous corral, The gun went off and obviously we ALL charged towards the water. Those to the right angled to the buoy and beat the crap out of me. My mistake no one else's. I believe, as someone else posted that the best way to start is to set up the corrals and filter in at one entry point directly in line with the buoy...just like LP. Just my opinion.

Where did you place yourself? the start was as wide as it usually is people were just seeded with like abilities with no corrals. People have traditionally bunched up around the buoy line as the perception is that it is a much shorter line, this has lead to more congestion at turn one due to the prevailing current pushing people to the East and having to converge with everyone else there. The breaking wave at the first sandbar added to people's anxiety and obviously made for even more uncomfortable contact.

I was positioned in the best place to see the start and how it unfolded. Again we were tasked with trying some different things this year and that's what we have done, we will look at the results and decide how things will be done in each location next year.

I too thought LP went off great, although I still prefer the mass start, or waves where everyone in a particular AG starts at the same time. It is a race after all and its nice to know where you stands against your competition.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman