Err... wouldn't it be a maul, not a ruck ? As folks are using their hands to ahem, 'do the work' - whereas rucking is using feet ! (If a ruck, everyone would be penalised by the ref for having their hands in the ruck, going on at the side, etc. Unless of course the fact they are in black and may resemble Richie Mccaw at a distance means that the laws don't apply to them... ).

Nice! I think Maul defense is definitely that, throwing everything you have at it so that it stops. A Maul off a lineout is also a process.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Nowadays Ironman skips the middleman and sends the early reg links directly to anyone affiliated with a club in their system:

Last guy went in the water at 7:37. Apparently they announced him.

Results page says 3275 athletes, so call it 3000 athletes, 47 minutes, 64/minute was rolling start rate.

THIS, exactly^^^^

Bring back the mass start!![/quote]
I'm with you buddy! Funny how often we still see the mass start video from Kona as the current setup is so watered down( good one, eh?)

Got my ass kicked in the mass starts a couple of times and did very well in others, but I always knew where I stood in the races. The rolling start takes away all of the head to head competition, but maybe it's the new generation's idea of sport. Everyone gets a medal......

That was the 2015 race. Incidentally, 2015 was the inaugural rolling swim start ("SwimSmart".)

No, that's Ironman's view of swim safety. Other races have addressed the issue with wave starts. Sounds like the happy medium, and it's weird that Ironman didn't try that before the full-out rolling start for the entire field. Still, even then the MOP/BOP folks would get swum over by the trailing AG FOP crowd.

Exactly. Dumb it down for the lowest common denominator who chooses not to be able to swim well. Funny how in the old days once people got swam over once they did not start so far forward the next race. Instead of letting things sort themselves out, they try and legislate to make it fair and end up making it harder to actually compete against one's peers. While they have expanded to venues not capable of the crowds they now attract, many (including IMWI, IMFL, Kona, IMAZ) could easily still employ a mass start and be as safe as they are now. I was at IMWI and by not having the swimmers able to enter early and get used to the water and find their spot, it was worse from my view.

Just my 2 cents, but I think the decline in registration rate is:

A) people knowing, unless you are a super athlete, you have little to no shot a KQ - thus has been a downer for me and my wife who both are very athletic, we are top 10% but no way we have the bandwidth to compete with the top 1-2%

B) amount of training time needed for a full vs a 70.3

C) price to enter, when the tier 1 is never really offered to general public, then compound the high entry with travel, hotel, etc...I think people say its tier 1 or bust.

Yea, I wish they would make the website so one could search by price and see if it's worth it instead of clicking on all the links to be disappointed. Can't afford the sport anymore so am doing a lot more Indy races and having more fun at them at far less cost.

How much do you know about composite risk management? None, I'm gonna guess. I'll betcha 100% that their insurance company told them they needed to reduce risk and that a rolling start was one of the things on the table that they were required to execute.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

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I’m sure you may be right. Too many lawyers in the mix, but the country we live in. Reducing risk does not mean it’s a good idea, just covering one’s ass. From the rolling starts I’ve observed there seems to be even more panic among the far back of the packers. Again, an issue that was not an issue when people actually prepared for what they committed to.

The few people who think mass starts of 2000 + people are a good idea are absolute idiots.
I am a 60 min IM swimmer, and trying not to drown in the 1st 200-300 yards was always a major challenge. I have friends who swim 52 min, and it was the same for them.
Rolling starts have made the swims much safer (drowning deaths have gone down significantly- most of which occurred in the first 100 yards)
Drafting is still bad, definitely better
The ability to get a clean, unobstructed swim is much more likely.
The concept of mass starts began when the fields were 1/3 to 1/2 the size that they are now, and there were not nearly as many one and done participants who start at the front, go all out for 100 yards, then start breaststroke or backstroke, or just stopping
There is absolutely nothing fun about that
Endurance races like 70.3 and IM are not like track meets and 5 and 10 k’s, or any single sport race.
It is a race in which your best time comes from focusing on yourself, not a head to head show down. For the pros it is a different story, as the fields are small enough for a mass start, but to my point, very few pro races are decided by gaps of less than 1 minute.
As a few have already posted, correlation can be causative or coincidental, it this case it is clearly coincidental, as a significant majority prefer the rolling starts.
Perhaps you should consider the more likely culprit- the decline in overall participation, and the rapid increase in the number of races. Both of these factors fit your time line quite well

I attempted IMAZ in 2008. I sat in T1 for 1/2 hour trying to stop shaking from being so cold due to the 10 mins or so of treading water before the swim start. Dropped out after a loop and a half on the run and I blame that on the swim start. Not sure if mass start or waves is any better.

I am a MOP swimmer and I too miss the mass swim start. The swim start at IMFL was special. See for yourself. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xwYwUPVPLnM

Cool video, is that the year Finman did it?

You could have let him bet me before so easily shooting down his theory, thanks alot!

No, Finman was 2008 (I was there that year too). https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ida_Finman_P2075494/

Having been BOP myself back when there was mass starts as rolling started to take over, I can say absolutely not here.

But look, while I strongly prefer rolling to one big mass start, I will fully support the oft brought up ST idea of starting every race with an optional mass start for those who want to be competitive, then let the masses behind roll in separately. Every time this discussion pops up this solution is brought up eventually, because it's a good one and even as the points above bring in risk/insurance, I would figure it would be easy as forcing those who want to do the optional mass start sign a special release/waiver etc.

Anyway, I would more love to see this happen to prove the point that 10% of the people will actually care about a mass start option and participate. But at least those 10% could be satisfied.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Can someone tell me 1 thing with a rolling start.

Does the race force you to trickle in the water? Could 287 people all just roll off the front together? Or is there someone really making sure it sorta is an single file type of trickle start?

IE- if people wanted to “mass” start it could they?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

the first time I did a rolling start it was at IMCdA and it was truly rolling, just like a marathon start. The only thing limiting things was the width of the starting arch.

Most recently at IMFL the rolling start included "lanes" and a metered entry system, a beep every few seconds and the first person in each lane could enter, so five at a time.

So yeah, it's limited now, at least at IMFL.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

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The one race I've done that was a rolling start (Muncie), the organizers had it set up so that you started in a 4-wide chute. They held you until the "beep", then go. I'd guess 5 secs or so between groups of 4.

I was a little skeptical before I did it, but honestly, the rolling start is way better. At least you could swim rather than fight for space. I mean, I've played water polo, I CAN fight for space no problem, but I'd rather not.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Completely agree, the slots went from 100 -> 80 -> 50 -> 40. The math doesn't work for me any more, I have to plan on winning my age group or maybe 2nd and I'd have to have my very best day, nothing goes wrong and other guys don't. Combine that with the fact the prices are through the roof and I've bowed out. I still train but now just bike race, it's dramatically cheaper.

Eric, Jason thx for that info. Makes sense from the race organization to basically truly limit entry into water. Especially if 1 lap swim that would be kinda nice except for the whole “it’s not a head to head race” thing anymore. But if you look at it simply as a “time trial” that’s how you can mentally race it. Time trial every second counts always.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I am only one person, and while local and having done IMAZ three times, decided that is it for me here. All about the swim. That run from exit was torture. Forget that. To your original point, it is my opinion Tempe Town Lake is tailor made for a mass start.