you loose one of the biggest benefits of disc brakes which is the modulation. Still an improvement over rim brakes, but if you can swing it I would opt for the hydro brakes.

Two considerations:

1. Hydraulic systems are self-advancing for pad-wear.

With mechanical systems you would need to tune the pads closer to the rotor as the pads wear or experience further lever travel for the same braking.

In wet riding with abrasive particulate this can be an issue over the course of a longer ride or even a horrific CX race.

2. In my experience with Avid / SRAM, Mechanical power is good, but modulation is less than hydraulic.

3. Mechanical would require cable changes for consistent braking through time. Intervals would depending on conditions typically seen.

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My commuter bike came with TRP HyRd cable operated hydraulics. They should be the worst of both worlds, but I’m sold. Use normal road levers and get 2 pot self adjusting brakes. They’re not pretty but they work.

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Developing aero, fit and other fun stuff at Red is Faster

My commuter had mechs. TRP Spyres I think, and they were "meh". I put HY/RDs on last year and they are definitely better, smoother/self adjusting/better modulation as others said. I have hydo discs on my MTB, and love them, the difference between them and the HY/RDs is substantial. This is why I am about to get a new commuter with hydro and sell off the old one. If you are looking for cheap then I think mechs are servicable (and I will sell you some at a cheap price), but otherwise I'd go (and am going) hydro.

I have HY/RD and Full hydraulic (Shimano RS685).

Without a doubt, the fully hydraulic RS685 provides stronger braking. Braking is so strong that I don't see much point in running 160mm rotors (currently set up as 140mm front and rear and can lock up the front going down hill pretty easily).

The hy/rd is fine, just not as powerful. The poster that said there was a 'lag' in lever feel likely does have the cable tension set up properly. The caliper has barrel adjusters built in to eliminate tension lag. Get a set of sintered pads and I bet the braking would be pretty close to a full hydraulic set up.

The benefit of the hy/rd is that you don't have to worry about servicing hydraulic lines. I have experience bleeding car and motorcycle brakes and I'd rather bleed those any day over the Shimano RS685's. ...for the life of me, I can't get it out a small bubble of air in my rear brake line. I've tried letting in drain out, I've tried pulling fluid through with a syringe, and I've tried the squeeze-bleed method, ...and I still feel just a bit of squishyness in the rear brake. Any advice would be appreciated:)

Slowtwitch, where someone says they want to keep their bike cheap and chooses Ultegra.

IMO, I wouldn't bother with the Hy:Rd. Just get the Spyres and run Jagwire solid link housings. The Spyres activate both pads (just like hydraulic) through a yoke-style lever, unlike Avid BB7s that have a fixed and moving pad and rely on disc deflection to activate most pads.

You don't give up ANY power OR modulation with those as compared to hydraulic, despite what some might say. Most of those opinions are based on comparing to the Avids. The Spyres are much better (I've had both).

The only "downside" is the pads don't automatically advance for pad wear. It's really no big deal though since just advancing the adjuster barrels on each periodically takes care of that...and is actually the flip side of one of the main advantages of them over hydraulics, in that it's also easy to just back them out a few turns if you're having clearance problems (due to whatever issue). That adjustability of pad clearance and simplicity is something to think about for a gravel/touring/adventure rig that might be taken into the backcountry on extended trips.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Not with proper caliper (Spyres, or Paul's Klampers) and proper housing selection (Jagwire Link or similar solid, segmented housings).

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

What is the source of the actuation/modulation debate? Marketing?

That fine tuning seems rather attractive. Thanks.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
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HA! :)

I used to race full time and was conditioned to _only_ accept DA. I love Ultegra, and it won't be long before I'm chill getting 105.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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IME, mostly setup. Like I said above, a lot of folks compare hydraulics to the 1-sided actuation of the Avids, since that was the only decent choice for a long time.

There's probably a bit of "placebo" going on as well. Everyone's been inundated with how hydraulics are SOOO much better, so there can be some perception bias at play.

I'm using mine with SRAM Red levers and like them just fine. Stuff I've read says they "play" slightly better with Shimano levers due to the slightly different pull-ratio. For example, see here:

https://www.gravelbike.com/...e-roundup/#more-6670

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

There is both a power and modulation difference between the cable actuated and hydro brakes, it's just neither as significant as some would portray it, nor as non-existent as Tom would have you believe. As you live up here in the PNW, you're also going to encounter the biggest disadvantage to the cable actuated brakes, which is that the cables will get contaminated just as any cable actuated system does, and it doesn't take much of that to adversely impact the modulation of the cable actuated brakes. It's not a deal breaker, but it's real and it's something that I have come to believe our SoCal brethren just don't take into account in their product assessments.

FWIW, I've actually got identical bikes set up with Spyres (with compressionless housing) and the new DA hydro, and... yeah. There's a difference. Having said that, I do essentially agree with his assessment of the cable systems, and wouldn't hesitate to use them. They definitely aren't as good as the Hydro options, but they're good enough. I also actually prefer the Spyre (and the Paul's) to the HyRd brakes; the HyRd are just much more finicky than the pure cable, and don't offer the pad adjustability advantage of the pure mech systems that Tom correctly pointed out. They feel great when you first set them up, but they lose modulation more quickly when contaminated, and suffer from incredibly fast pad wear when/if you get sand/mud/grit in them.

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Fair enough...most of my riding doesn't occur in grungy conditions, and when it does the bike gets washed after ;-)

I've also made a point of using a full housing run from lever to brake front and rear. The Jagwire links work really well for that.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Hydro has slightly better modulation and power.
No adjustment required.
More prone to pad rubbing/noise as pads run closer to disc.
Mechanical can adjust clearance to minimise rubbing (as pointed out by Tom A).
Levers typically slimmer and better ergonomically and aesthetically (subjective).
The latest hydro levers are getting better in this regard.
Personally I prefer mechanical so I can have a quieter bike and levers which I prefer the shape of.

It really makes a huge difference. Yes mechanical disc systems work well, but hydro is another level. Power, feel, modulation, everything is better with hydro.

The first year of my recent triathlon hiatus was mostly spent on a mechanical disc brake CX bike. It was fine, but when I upgraded to hydro the following season the difference was remarkable. Then last year I returned to trip and got my Andean; again fine, but I can't wait to upgrade to hydro there as well.

If you're talking gravel with the potential for long fire road type descents, then hydro is a no brainier.

As for maintenance, I find it very simple: I replace the pads when they are worn, and take it in to be bled once or twice a year (bleeding isn't very hard, but I never want to take the time to futz with it and maybe (let's be honest, probably) screw it up. Self adjusting pads are a revelation after trying to set up BB7s for CX racing.

In my mind the hybrid systems are the worst of both worlds: you get cable stretch AND they need to be bled. What's the point? Definitely not worth the couple hundred bucks you'll save over hydro. I still run the SRAM S700 levers and calipers on my race bike. I've never felt the need to upgrade to red. One caliper failed last summer and was replaced free of charge by SRAM. That replacement necessitated my doing the first race last season on my old bike, with the mech brakes, first race entirely on the bike in several years. Let's just say I was really glad to get my brakes back for the following weekend.

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2 thoughts.
1. Make sure you try to eliminate high points in the system by rotating your bike in the stand.
I rotate my stand head so that the front end is up in the air and the bike is maybe at a 30+ degree angle. If needed, I've rotated my handlebars down to level the bleed cup to allow for a more rotated frame.

2. When doing the gravity bleed it is important to finish by moderately squeezing the lever and quickly opening then closing the bleed screw at the caliper. I find this can launch a few extra bubbles out of the caliper that are stubborn with just the gravity bleed. The lever will pull to the bar when you open the port, but should feel firmer when you release and resqueeze. A couple of these has been helpful to get the lever feel solid.

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The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

internet is confusing at times

Opinion 1
Hydraulic systems are self-advancing for pad-wear.
With mechanical systems you would need to tune the pads closer to the rotor as the pads wear or experience further lever travel for the same braking.


Opinion 2
Hydro has slightly better modulation and power.
No adjustment required.
More prone to pad rubbing/noise as pads run closer to disc.

Thanks. I'll try both of those suggestions. I hadn't thought of #2.

gracias

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
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🤔🤔🤔🤔

I'm in Boulder :)

But have traveled frequently to the PNW over the years. PNW Summer > PNW Winter

So we've got summer monsoon, occasional slush in winter, and quite a lot of road debris and dust. Would that put us -- use wise -- closer to SoCal or PNW road conditions?

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Agreed, i like the smaller/slimmer look. I'm not immune to the influence of good looks :-D

With road hydro is there not a way to adjust pad spacing from rotor? Only with the barrel on the mech?

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Is your mech bike BB5/7 or spyre equipped?

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

Sorry 'bout that, remembered you posting stuff about being up here I guess :)

Boulder is pretty much dead center on the spectrum, depends how often you ride through the daily summer thundershower!

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

precisely. the very thing i'm waffling on.

is there no nuanced way of tuning the pads on a hydro system that's similar to the barrel adjuster on the mech?

Thanks

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App