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Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline
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Just for grins and giggles, what would happen if you could fill a velodrome with very competent riders say 3-wide all the way around the track?

Other than the realism of probable mass carnage, let's say everyone gets up to speed and stays upright.

What kind of effects are we looking at here? How fast could they go assuming they don't fly off the track?
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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"They've gone to plaid..." thanks for the awesome reference!!
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:


Other than the realism of probable mass carnage, let's say everyone gets up to speed and stays upright.


Speaking for the trackies here going 3-wide at high speed is nothing. Wouldn't even remotely test our skills. Nothing like Keirin or madison where you have to manage speed and position changes. Mass carnage would be unlikely.

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What kind of effects are we looking at here? How fast could they go assuming they don't fly off the track?


Probably something like what we see in Derny racing.



Last edited by: trail: Jan 4, 21 14:16
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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It's funny, I guessed an average speed of 60kph. According to Wikipedia the highest average speed of a madison race is 59.921kph.
? "The fastest known average speed of a madison men's race is 59.921 kilometres per hour (37.233 mph), achieved by the Australian duo of Sam Welsford and Leigh Howard, at the world cup race in Glasgow, United Kingdom, 9 November 2019."
An organised event may go a little faster but not by a lot.
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Probably something like what we see in Derny racing.



What the heck did I just see?

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Six day racing

Big fun, lots of interesting race formats.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Ewan on 191 hr...

***
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I've been in a 25 person single pace line and a 20 person double line on a 166.67 meter indoor Velodrome, they both feel the same to me.

While doing a double line, when the front two rotate back it's like a triple line for a quarter lap so if you're on the outside sitting 3rd or 4th wheel, you're in the center of the group. There's relatively little effort to ride 25-26 mph.

I didn't have my PM when we did them so I cannot give exact numbers but a recent example of drafting one person for me in the velodrome is 105 watts for 21.3mph and 165 watts for 25 mph. The double lines feel much easier than drafting a single rider.
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [bluntandy] [ In reply to ]
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I've only gone slightly faster than 60kpm for a moment while doing flying 200's. I was riding 88 gear inches at the time which put me at a cadence of 145 rpm. I hope they were riding more gear.
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Morelock wrote:
Six day racing

Big fun, lots of interesting race formats.

Attending a six day is on my bucket list.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbLxmOcjdf4
Must go! You can also catch a cyclocross or two if you time your visit correctly. Veldrijden in de morgen, baanweilrennen in de avond....

have been to the Gent Six four times...the first time, I was absolutely floored at the speed and skill level. I've seen a few bike races, and I've seen some fast guys, but this was beyond.

Watched my man Iljo Keisse break a chain behind the derny...and nothing happened. The chain snaked down the banking, Iljo signaled to his driver, and no rider fell.

The Gent track is pretty small (it's nickname is "the cup") so if you blink you can miss the sprint. I remember the first two trips sensing the crowd go "ooooo" and I couldn't figure out what they were responding to. One year of all people to meet in the stands was John Vandevelde (he raced there in the 70's) and he could point out things that were so subtle but so huge, once you knew what to look for.

The crowds...the party...we sat next to a couple on our last trip who had been going to the Gent 6 for THIRTY YEARS. It was where they met (this is a place to take your date!) and their kids were there too. So. Much. Fun.


The final night of racing will end with the derny, and the last lap double points sprint will be a four-wide spectacle that never fails to entertain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbLxmOcjdf4

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
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X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com
Last edited by: ABarnes: Jan 4, 21 18:27
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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ironclm wrote:
Morelock wrote:
Six day racing

Big fun, lots of interesting race formats.


Attending a six day is on my bucket list.

I'm with you. My wife and I planned to visit her family and see 6 Day London last year, but obviously that didn't happen. :/

Detroit is about the closest thing in the US, but it's of course not the same.
A madison on Dick Lane has it's own charm though :D :D

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:


What the heck did I just see?


Very similar to stayer racing! Not nearly as complicated to keep track of as the Madison, though.


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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:


Other than the realism of probable mass carnage, let's say everyone gets up to speed and stays upright.


Speaking for the trackies here going 3-wide at high speed is nothing. Wouldn't even remotely test our skills. Nothing like Keirin or madison where you have to manage speed and position changes. Mass carnage would be unlikely.

Quote:
What kind of effects are we looking at here? How fast could they go assuming they don't fly off the track?


Probably something like what we see in Derny racing.



Yeah, closest probably is derny racing. Wiki says they "have" in the past paced riders with derny up to 56mph. Jesus.
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
Just for grins and giggles, what would happen if you could fill a velodrome with very competent riders say 3-wide all the way around the track?

Nothing, it'd be about as interesting as a yellow-flag lap at the Daytona 500. The best IP riders in the world are already drafting themselves,

burnthesheep wrote:
Other than the realism of probable mass carnage, let's say everyone gets up to speed and stays upright.

Minuscule chance of *any* carnage, much less mass carnage.

burnthesheep wrote:
What kind of effects are we looking at here? How fast could they go assuming they don't fly off the track?

I've heard rumors of 100kph behind scooters on 333m tracks but never witnessed it.
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [jmsgrady] [ In reply to ]
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I saw a stayer exhibition race at Herne Hill velodrome. The noise was awesome. Norten bikes I think. The motor riders have extended bars so they can stand to create more draft, the rear of the moto has a roller if the front wheel of the rider touches. The rider bikes have 24 inch wheels and backwards forks so they can get super close.
I'm sure I have a video on an old computer
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:


Other than the realism of probable mass carnage, let's say everyone gets up to speed and stays upright.


Speaking for the trackies here going 3-wide at high speed is nothing. Wouldn't even remotely test our skills. Nothing like Keirin or madison where you have to manage speed and position changes. Mass carnage would be unlikely.

Quote:
What kind of effects are we looking at here? How fast could they go assuming they don't fly off the track?


Probably something like what we see in Derny racing.



Haha, what are those like 100mm cranks on the derny bikes?

Also, when Cav has the rainbow stripes on his collar or sleeve cuff, which past world championship is that referring to? A strict interpretation would be Derny, a less strict one would be some other track event, and least strict would be anything on the road.

E

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
trail wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:


Other than the realism of probable mass carnage, let's say everyone gets up to speed and stays upright.


Speaking for the trackies here going 3-wide at high speed is nothing. Wouldn't even remotely test our skills. Nothing like Keirin or madison where you have to manage speed and position changes. Mass carnage would be unlikely.

Quote:
What kind of effects are we looking at here? How fast could they go assuming they don't fly off the track?


Probably something like what we see in Derny racing.


Haha, what are those like 100mm cranks on the derny bikes?

Slowtwitch approved. Lol.
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
trail wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:


Other than the realism of probable mass carnage, let's say everyone gets up to speed and stays upright.


Speaking for the trackies here going 3-wide at high speed is nothing. Wouldn't even remotely test our skills. Nothing like Keirin or madison where you have to manage speed and position changes. Mass carnage would be unlikely.

Quote:
What kind of effects are we looking at here? How fast could they go assuming they don't fly off the track?


Probably something like what we see in Derny racing.


Haha, what are those like 100mm cranks on the derny bikes?


Slowtwitch approved. Lol.

I also love how utterly expressionless the pilots are... is that a track thing or a British thing or what?

E

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:

I also love how utterly expressionless the pilots are... is that a track thing or a British thing or what?

E

Well of course it's foremost our natural way of being. But in this case then it's also the additional superiority of turning up to a cycling facility on a motorbike specifically to get in the way and annoy the common fold that can't afford a Bentley, only to have the upstart not only follow one but keep nodding at ones self to say he wants to overtake. Was much easier when one could just shoot the peasants and no-one cared. Ah the good old days.
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Morelock wrote:
A madison on Dick Lane has it's own charm though :D :D

Oh lord! Is there still that big bump on the backside?

Daniel Holloway is one of my Hellyer dudes and he used to race some of the 6-days all the time. I let him throw me once to experience a Madison-like moment. Woo!!!

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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Yea, Colby Pearce and Danny used to be on the 6 Day Circuit. One of the few, if only, US teams 'invited' to attend. If you every see Danny again, ask him about the Chicken Suit !

Colby has put on a few Madison Clinics, and we've had some races here. The most we've ever had was about 8 teams, I can't imagine what it takes to be on the track with 16 teams at the pace they are at. Its a fantastic race - really crazy.
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:


Also, when Cav has the rainbow stripes on his collar or sleeve cuff, which past world championship is that referring to? A strict interpretation would be Derny, a less strict one would be some other track event, and least strict would be anything on the road.

E


There is no Derny Worlds. I'm guessing his Madison wins at Worlds (3 of them) entitle him to sleeve stripes whenever on the track. Particularly with Madison being a 6-day event. I'm assuming whatever it was acceptable attire even by snobby roadie standards.
Last edited by: trail: Jan 5, 21 16:33
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Re: Humor me, a silly hypothetical: completely uninterrupted velodrome paceline [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
ericMPro wrote:


Also, when Cav has the rainbow stripes on his collar or sleeve cuff, which past world championship is that referring to? A strict interpretation would be Derny, a less strict one would be some other track event, and least strict would be anything on the road.

E


There is no Derny Worlds. I'm guessing his Madison wins at Worlds (3 of them) entitle him to sleeve stripes whenever on the track. Particularly with Madison being a 6-day event. I'm assuming whatever it was acceptable attire even by snobby roadie standards.

There’s a local kid here who won an AG or Category USAC Stars and Stripes jersey and he wore it every day for the year, but also on his MTB and TT bikes. Some people took offense, LOL.

E

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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