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How well do you know Zwift
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Yesterday I did my first organized group ride on Zwift. Leading the B Hilly Vanilli at “3-3.5w/kg”. I typically have the TT bike by default. I got it when it came out and never bothered changing.
Of course the group had zero interest riding with 3-3.5 (first thing I discovered yesterday) and after 30secs it was high 4 low 5. Ok fine.
But although I was still working hard (a lot harder than I wanted initially) I noticed I was dropping even though power in the group was lower. After 20min it was apparent that I wasn’t getting any draft so I asked the Rappstar. Second thing I discovered. Who here knew you don’t get any draft while on Zwift on the TT bike? I thought that was rather funny since I was an initial beta tester when there was only one short loop and have been riding on it for 4 years ish.

Anything else folks have discovered?

Either way, the “race” was a lot more fun than I expected despite the surprise. I hadn’t bothered trying and was just doing my rides but I’ll definitely try again.

And btw the glass tunnel under water is going to crack.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
Yesterday I did my first organized group ride on Zwift. Leading the B Hilly Vanilli at “3-3.5w/kg”. I typically have the TT bike by default. I got it when it came out and never bothered changing.
Of course the group had zero interest riding with 3-3.5 (first thing I discovered yesterday) and after 30secs it was high 4 low 5. Ok fine.
But although I was still working hard (a lot harder than I wanted initially) I noticed I was dropping even though power in the group was lower. After 20min it was apparent that I wasn’t getting any draft so I asked the Rappstar. Second thing I discovered. Who here knew you don’t get any draft while on Zwift on the TT bike? I thought that was rather funny since I was an initial beta tester when there was only one short loop and have been riding on it for 4 years ish.

Anything else folks have discovered?

Either way, the “race” was a lot more fun than I expected despite the surprise. I hadn’t bothered trying and was just doing my rides but I’ll definitely try again.

And btw the glass tunnel under water is going to crack.

it's worse than that, brother. the hilly vanilli is - unless we changed it, and i don't think we did - set up for doubledraft: the draft effect is doubled for those getting the draft. i was on a tri bike too. no draft. but then i was riding sweep (unlike you!) so it didn't matter.

on the positive side, this was the best i've ever seen the D group hang together. jimmie is a crackerjack ride leader for the Ds. he could well lead the Cs, but he leads the Ds, which allows him to have enough power to drop back and drag somebody up who's falling off.

i watched you yesterday, you have all the power in the world, but if you're not on a road bike in an event with doubledraft, you're going to be toast. zwift is like dungeons & dragons. takes awhile to find out all the ways you can screw yourself ;-)

add to that, we don't have an A group in the hilly vanilli. so, folks who want to ride in the A group - who should be an A - ride in the B group and drag that group to a faster pace.

all that said, we had 3 really good groups, each had at least 10 riders in it. not bad for the 1st time for this ride in its new time slot. you should guest lead a tuesday structured training one week. you'd be good at that.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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One of the riders said at the beginning “ah TT bike, you’re going to get dropped so fast!” I thought it was a joke and a dig at triathletes. But no. It wasn’t :)

By the way: where can I get a through axle adapter for the kickr gen 2 to put my new madone disc?
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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The tt bike “no draft” thing is well known I think. Common sense says everyone would be riding tt bikes if there was no disadvantage in a group.

I think the sticky draft is largely misunderstood because it’s so different from real world. To keep riders from constantly surging back and forth, there is a large range of power you can put out when drafting and get the same result. It’s one of the most import skills in zwift from my perspective and I don’t believe many people really understand it.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [bluto] [ In reply to ]
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Clearly I didn’t. But then it was my first organized ride ever on Zwift.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
Clearly I didn’t. But then it was my first organized ride ever on Zwift.

i would think the effective ride leader - in a ride like that - states in the pen in a group text we're should try to ride together and, as opposed to a race where everyone is shot out of a cannon, there's power in keeping the group together.

jimmie texts, right in the beginning, "i'm going to ride in the 2.25 to 2.5 w/kg range." if folks ride away, okay. their prerogative. jimmie could ride them all down and drop them like a bad transmission if he wanted to. he's there to ride the stated power for the D group.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I posted at the beginning that pace was 3-3.5. Everyone took off :)
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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I was surprised at first by how much I enjoyed group rides on Zwift. I do them quite frequently now.

Obviously you figured it out, but never do a race or group ride on a TT bike :)

If the pack was pushing 3.0-3.5 w/kg, on Double Draft, and you were able to hold the pack on the TT bike, then you my friend were working hard.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
I posted at the beginning that pace was 3-3.5. Everyone took off :)

that's fine. what i'd do if i was you, i'd move to a road bike. if people want to take off faster, fine. just sit in. if the group shatters, then lead an actual B ride at a bona fide B ride at 3+. if the group doesn't shatter, then that's fine too. each of these rides, and each group within the ride, takes on its own personality. i think an effective leader discovers the personality of the ride, and manages the ride inside of that. but i'm not expert. i just provide the jerseys.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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I found out the first race I did, when 3 people made fun of me riding a TT bike. That race didn’t go very well for me, someone doing the race let me know about the non draft of the TT bike.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [plifter242] [ In reply to ]
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After about 15min at 5.0 and higher I decided I was going to ride a bit easier :)
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
Anything else folks have discovered?
It took me awhile to find the challenges in Zwift (like the Mt. Everest challenge to unlock the tron bike).

The Zwift design makes it easy to get riding but other things like challenges are not obvious at all.

If you have to go to Google or Youtube to figure out where it is, that's a hint they should improve the layout.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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It would be great if we could turn the draft effect off for TT bikes IRL (especially at IM Texas and Kona)

Strava
1999 LC Jr Nats 200m Fly Champion
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
Who here knew you don’t get any draft while on Zwift on the TT bike? I thought that was rather funny since I was an initial beta tester when there was only one short loop and have been riding on it for 4 years ish.

That's a widely known thing. But I guess if you only look in Zwift and don't read any of the bike comparison posts you wouldn't know. It's not like in game there is a warning that it doesn't get a draft when you select a TT bike.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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This is one of the strengths of the crew that's been handling the Rise and Grind B group lead -- very good at announcing what we're going to do out of the gate, what to hold on the hills, and trying to re-group after sprints and KOMs. As B group sweeper, I'm usually in the group for the first 30+ minutes or so until I have to do my duty of dragging people back to the group after a climb -- it's usually right when I get people back on and I go to take a breather from the effort that the screws tighten again and I'm spit out the back.

There are some Cs that need to step up and join the B team, though.

----------------------------------
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"It ain't easy being green..."
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
Francois wrote:
Who here knew you don’t get any draft while on Zwift on the TT bike? I thought that was rather funny since I was an initial beta tester when there was only one short loop and have been riding on it for 4 years ish.


That's a widely known thing. But I guess if you only look in Zwift and don't read any of the bike comparison posts you wouldn't know. It's not like in game there is a warning that it doesn't get a draft when you select a TT bike.

Yep. I have known for a long time, but only from reading it on here or zwift insider.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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I'll admit, I'm impressed with your efforts to sweep the B-group Rise&Grind ride. That's not an easy ride to sweep for.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [MRid] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. It took me the first couple to really get a good feel for the effort and what it was going to take. The only thing I wish Zwift offered me was a bonus power-up or 3 to let me recover after dragging people back on!

----------------------------------
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"It ain't easy being green..."
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [bluto] [ In reply to ]
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bluto wrote:
The tt bike “no draft” thing is well known I think. Common sense says everyone would be riding tt bikes if there was no disadvantage in a group.

I think the sticky draft is largely misunderstood because it’s so different from real world. To keep riders from constantly surging back and forth, there is a large range of power you can put out when drafting and get the same result. It’s one of the most import skills in zwift from my perspective and I don’t believe many people really understand it.



Care to elaborate on the "sticky draft" a bit more for those of us that may not actually know what it is?

I do mostly Group Rides and a few races here and there......group rides always turn into a race anyway.
fyi........every single group ride I have done (mostly C's and a few B's) have groupS that ride off the front and above the rides posted target - every single one except maybe once.

Yup, I knew abput the TT bike being no draft but I am sure there are many other tidbits of Zwift that I'm not aware of.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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If you ride a fast road bike (Tron bike or Madone with disc wheel), it's almost exactly the same speed as riding a TT bike at around 260 watts. The draft slingshot you get when passing people on your road bike averages up your speed to be about the same as if you were on the TT bike anyway. I've tested it on the Volcano Flat loop about 20 times. That's for solo rides though, not in huge group rides.

I'll ride TT when I miss my TT bike, but road bike when I want to practice slingshoting past people like in a AG wave Ironman race.

Another secret - If you want to improve without thinking about it at all, push the trainer resistance realism setting over the tiniest bit possible every few rides. You may not even notice it, but it makes you work harder and you will get stronger to keep performing like you were before.

Also, your height setting affects your drag. I saw a video where they tested it for digital doping and it works.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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Sticky draft simple example-
You are drafting behind another rider of the same weight, height, bike, etc. and he is putting out 4 w/kg on a flat road. You can be be sitting on his wheel at 3.7 or 3.2 w/kg. The stickiness prevents you from jumping out of the draft at 3.7 like you would in the real world (or you would run into the back of him). drafting in a big pack has a similar concept, but lots more variables. Efficient Zwift riders know how to surf the pack on minimum watts.

You can also see the stickiness when you are passing a group of slower riders and you must give a little push to avoid getting stuck to their group.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [bluto] [ In reply to ]
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bluto wrote:
Sticky draft simple example-
You are drafting behind another rider of the same weight, height, bike, etc. and he is putting out 4 w/kg on a flat road. You can be be sitting on his wheel at 3.7 or 3.2 w/kg. The stickiness prevents you from jumping out of the draft at 3.7 like you would in the real world (or you would run into the back of him). drafting in a big pack has a similar concept, but lots more variables. Efficient Zwift riders know how to surf the pack on minimum watts.

You can also see the stickiness when you are passing a group of slower riders and you must give a little push to avoid getting stuck to their group.

And you can also tell if you are getting draft benefit if your guy sits up and rides the tops of the bars. When you start going off to the side of somebody, you'll see your guy drop back down because he's fighting the wind again. And you can see that he sits up well before the "Close the Gap" stuff starts showing up.
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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for all you guys who know all this stuff, we need more leaders!

we have 2 run leaders right now for our upcoming group zwift runs. we need at least 6 altogether. we have a tuesday morning run upcoming. B and C groups. 3 times:

5:30am and 5:35am EST
8:00am and 8:05am EST
11:30am and 11:35am EST

here's the first week's runs:

B group: right about 5mi total.
Quarter mile warmup at 10min/mi
4.5mi @ 8min/mi
Quarter mile warmdown @ 10min/mi

C group. 3.75mi total
Quarter mile warmup at 10min/mi
3.25mi @ 9min/mi
Quarter mile warmdown @ 10min/mi

the idea is for the Bs to catch the Cs are the very end, the last 100 yards.


then we need more leader for:


Hilly Vanilli
Rise & Grind


if you can only lead part time, fine. if you want to be a backup leader, so that the beacon falls on you if the leader is absent, that's fine. this is like volunteering at a race, except, you don't have to volunteer at the race.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I'd be honored to be a ride leader for Slowtwitch rides. Where do I find out more how to get started?
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Re: How well do you know Zwift [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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You can just choose a roadie within zwift.

Human Person
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