Where are you located? I'm in Texas and have been riding for 25+ years and other than official organized races or charity rides, I have never signed or been asked to sign a waiver.

NC.

I've signed waivers before for at least 3 different group ride groups around town.

I basically want an informal TT style group ride thing. Where you go do your own Strava segment then we chat over a beer after (I've found a nice outdoor place we can stay a good distance apart).

My thing is I thought with Strava you already signed your life away to chase segments. If so, how could me data mining what you did on Strava have any bearing on anything?

I guess the team leader sees it as such perhaps. Trying to figure this out. Have a few folks interested.

these guys do some "digital challenges" in the summer that creates a leaderboard with people who have signed up. They also do a neat thing where they can create a route with multiple timed "stages". Only the time within the stages is counted towards the challenge, but you have to complete the whole route to be eligible for a time. Means you have to knock off all of the segments in one ride, you can't just show up fresh to each one on a different day.


https://climbduro.com/app/challenges-list/1

Motivation. Would these people be riding these particular routes at a particular time, if it were not for the fact they were participating in something? Even more so if your organization were to assign start times. You “data mining” the results does not remove the casual nexus for why the people are doing the segments at a particular time in the first place.

As for reluctance to institute a waiver, of course, people can sue even after having signed a waiver, but that waiver is also something that forces the participants to acknowledge risk. More ever, quite a few people would be less inclined to sue after signing a waiver.

The only risk free solution would be not to hold it; everything else is risk mitigation (but not to the point of it being risk free)

Another one is gpsrace.cc Sounds like exactly the same format....timed segments, have to do it all in one ride, etc.

The only way people's data ends up in strava segments is if they make their activity public, so "mining" the weekly segment times is fine, its already in the public domain. Whether they knew they were competing in your event is immaterial, but it would likely be very easy for you to filter out any 'completed by accident' segment times anyway.

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@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068

Sounds like the Low Key Hill Climbs.

Part of it comes into the route itself. If you have stop signs or busy intersections you will have guys taking chances if there is a leaderboard. I think that is where you need to be careful.

The easiest way may just to make it a get-together with drinks after. Make it where everyone is just racing themselves, everyone is "on their own", this isn't a "race". I have a group of 5-6 buddies and we have a TT course of 25 miles in the country near us. It's never a race, we just go out and ride the route and see how we do then chat after. We are competitive for sure but we've not had a safety issue.

We also have a few local segments that we will go hit for bragging rights. Those are typically done solo.

I think this depends a lot on the laws of your state/region. In California, cycling is considered an inherently dangerous sport, so lawsuits are rare unless the organizer was encouraging behavior that was out outside the law (running stop signs, stop lights, etc.). This is how bike shops put on group rides without fear of legal issues should someone get hurt. At least that's how my insurance agent explained it to me many years ago.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Team leader- "I dont trust those waivers"

Same Team leader- create an weekly "event" where we hold no responsibility



Somewhere, somehow I'm seeing some sketchiness in that. It sounds like he's trying to get a work around from responsibility. Why again is he against waiver? "responsibility"?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yeah, but bike shops normally have some sort of general liability protection that makes it a hurdle to sue them.

It’s easier to come after and sue an individual without protection.

If I were a ‘Team Leader’, I would probably carry some sort of personal liability protection, waiver or not. I understand his concerns (‘he made me do it!’).
At least in California.
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I'll try to hit a few of the posts above with a single response:

-Route: the route has one right turn at a stop. Start is at a dead-end. U-turn is at a dead-end. Return you have right of way the rest of turns.

-Not done by me: we were trying to do it under the team. We had insurance under our old sponsor for the group rides apparently. With Covid, USAC wasn't allowing group rides, so no USAC group ride insurance available to the team. Otherwise, I don't think we'd have anything to talk about if it was last year on last year's sponsor and no Covid so available separate insurance for the team in general if a sponsor didn't cover it.

-The specific day/time bit: I'm willing to give up on this part if it removes significant liability or traceability to the team. Like, if there's no "go do this on this day/time" kind of deal.


General comment:
It's a bit sad you can't get a group of buds together without the worry that one tagalong someday sues somebody for their shirt after losing it doing something silly when nobody forced them to do anything.

I wish there was a generic provision like NC's "agritourism waiver" where as long as you have signs posted at your farm that if an idiot shows up to pet the animals and gets bit.........you're fine.

Several local clubs put on a Monthly segment competition, each month a segment is chosen either a existing one or a new segment is made up.
A couple of local people were giving small prizes each month. A free massage or a bike service and a bike shop did a lucky dip with some chain lube, ass saver or a pair of socks. And at the start of the next year we would put on a mini Fondo ride of all the segments.
Welcome to the TCC Segment Competition
This is an open competition against your friends, teammates, fellow club members or anyone out there.
Segment results and current GC standings
There will be a lead out time for men and women. Those who manage to beat (not just match) it, will enter a monthly raffle to win a prize donated by local businesses that support TCC.
Those who attempt the segment will also enter another raffle.
Ride early, Ride Fast and more importantly Ride Safe.
Strava results are final
Rules for the 2019 competition

1. Strava results are final.
2. Latest chance to post a ride is 23:59 of the last day of the month.
3. All prizes must be claimed and or arranged by end of the month following your win.
4. Each category can only be won once. In the event of this occurring, the prize falls in the next rider down.
5. Two competitions are going to be run, both with men and women categories
   
   1. General Classification. A cumulative time competition in which a rider must attempt all eleven segments of the year in the relevant month. Only the first 30 male riders and 10 female ones of the GC will qualify to enter the end of the year raffle.
   2. Points competition. The fastest rider gets 50 points, then it’s 40, 35, 30, 27, and 25, then 1-point increments down to 1 point for 30th place. Every rider that completes the segment gets 1 point. To be in with a chance of winning an overall prize at the end of the year you must ride at least 8 of the 11 monthly segments. If you ride more than 8, your highest 8 placings will count towards your overall score.
6. The organisers reserve the right to delete a post that it is deemed as inappropriate to the nature of this competition. As well as disqualify any rider for a non-sportive and uncourteous approach to it.
7. This platform is only to be used as it is intended, a free happy fun competition Any other uses may lead to immediate disqualification.
8. All attempts are at your own risk.
9. Cycling insurance, appropriate equipment and helmet are strongly recommended when riding.

General comment:
It's a bit sad you can't get a group of buds together without the worry that one tagalong someday sues somebody for their shirt after losing it doing something silly when nobody forced them to do anything.

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Imo you can do it, if it's just your buddies texting about seeing who can ride the fastest segment this week. But when you involve "organizations" there is much more CYA needed to apply, imo. I would think it would be in your club's best interest to CYA not skirt any issues. I would think trying to do it fly by night would put the club in more potential liability then not.

(and yes it SUCKS ass)

A coaching friend had an athlete get hit by a car and pass away at a race. It was the driver's FAULT, and said coach was doing all kinds of memorials, etc and then 6 months later the family was told by a lawyer to "sue" the coach as well so they could settle out of court.....WTF

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yeah. No way I would want to even endorse that kind of course as an open road TT.

Not only would I be offering myself up to personal liability big time, I would also create a big target on my back for authorities.
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Back in the mid-90s I worked at a shop that was a sponsor of a local team. The team put on a crit, and during the Cat1-2 race there was a crash. One of the injured riders claimed he "didn't realize" that cycling was a hazardous sport, and sued everyone involved. That included included everyone listed on the sponsoring team's jersey (including us), the city where the race was held, and even a private school (their parking lot was used for parking). A little hard to believe that someone could get to Cat 2 without ever seeing anyone crash and get injured during a race...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

https://www.almanacnews.com/...on-old-la-honda-road

You should be fine without worrying about it. There is a local group here in Raleigh (Sir Walter) that puts races together, but they also create strava segments for challenges and for people to win prizes or just local bragging rights.

Maybe just make it where to enter you have to join a strava club and then post the segment there and mention where youll meet for beers after to talk about it, follow the leaderboards of that group to compare times.

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https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

I had to dig to find that, but that's a run group. Run groups I'd bet have a ton less liability versus a bike time trial.

Right now, it's looking like we won't publish a route or do a time/date. Only a meetup to discuss a recap of the week. The only way I've figured you could award points based on that is to say that folks need to name their workouts with the Date and "PR". And if you want points, you better do your own Strava thing on the same route each time you submit a "PR". Basically, a participation points system. 1pt each week for a workout. Then 1pt each week in a month you get a PR. New month you wipe the PR's out to try again.

Yeah it’s a run club that does a few elite track meets here in Raleigh.

Why do you think their would be a liability issue for cycling versus running? I would just assume anything that is this informal wouldn’t be a thing let alone get enough exposure thst you would have tons of people flooding the streets to hit the TT route.

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https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

Agreed, but I can't lose my shirt. Or lose it for my bike team. :sadface:

If we can't make it happen I'll just text some friends to roll once a month then have a beer.

With the bike, there's the whole car thing. I guess if a run route crossed something you'd have that also.

I figured I had seen some of those run Strava things before. I saw that SWR Hoka relay segment pop up one day. There's also a N Hills 5k segment. Both pretty nasty hill or two on the routes. I live right in there and any run I do or ride starts right out of the 'hood with 100ft straight up and out. Ughhh.

I don't run really, but I've tried to make top 10 on the Shelley Rd. 1mi uphill segment. Got within 20sec one day. Just don't feel like wrecking my legs on next to no volume.

Summary
I had a working website that did exactly what is being asked. I took it down due to zero interest. If this is something people want, speak up....

Details
Last year I put up a website; rāsfrē.com (pronounced race free). It does exactly what you are talking about.

As a user you could define a race. Races could be either TT or mass start format. For TT, you defined the range of allowed start times. You could define points competitions like KOM, as well as "timed segments" (fastest over particular segments - think enduro style racing). People uploaded their GPS data, and the race was scored. I even had a feature where you could use a phone to live stream location data to the website. (That allowed live result tracking.)

I pitched the idea here, and as much as I could to others, but never got any interest. And I mean zero. (Well, 2 different people from Sweden each tried the site once; nobody else ever tried it.)

It would not take me much work to get it back on-line, if there were interest.

So I'll ask - is there actually interest beyond one person? If there is sufficient interest, I can revive the site. But it does cost actual money to run the site. So I need to see some general interest in order to consider resurrecting this.

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)