Disclaimer - I'm certainly not a running shoe expert. But saw your question dropping down the list with no answers so thought I'd at least give you my $0.02!

Basically, the more of a front foot striker you are, the less heel drop you want. High heel drop just means a bigger chunk of foam under your heel which makes it increasingly difficult to land on your mid- or forefoot. If you're a heel striker and happy staying that way, then having more of a drop might make sense as it gives more padding under your heel which is what you're landing on. If you're mostly a mid- or forefoot striker who maybe heel strikes occasionally when tired or on uneven ground, then your 4-6mm drop sounds about spot on.

I wouldn't have thought that more drop is going to help you get your upper body more in front of you, since they encourage heel striking which is typically associated with having your feet landing in front of your body. Personally I made a conscious decision to switch to more midfoot striking about 13 years ago to try and reduce running aches and pains. Bought some lower drop shoes (Nike Frees) to help with the transition and have never looked back. Took a little while for my lower leg muscles to adapt, but quickly felt much more natural and has certainly helped me be able to run more which has made me a better runner.

It sounds like you're suggesting a larger heel-toe drop will act as a wedge to tilt your body forward?
There is no way that's a realistic approach.

In my opinion a zero drop shoe will always allow good posture. But perhaps that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best shoe for you. A shoe with big drop MAY allow good posture or may cause problems with heel clearance. I can't tell you which is better for you, or what's wrong with your posture. However, in the absence of better info, I'd be inclined to work on your posture with a shoe that has very modest drop and once happy you can consider trying other options.

If you start trying other shoes while unhappy with your posture, there's a fair chance you'll end up choosing something to facilitate running with bad posture which is of no benefit if your aim is to address that underlying issue.

I'm having a difficult time understanding why having a bigger heel on a shoe makes it harder to land mid or forefoot.

Perhaps I don't understand what you are saying.

Well all pros run in shoes with big drop, so I doubt there is any connection between drop and running posture.
Also there is nothing inherently wrong with heel striking, several pros do it and if you are a natural heel striker, that is the way you should run. Overstriding is something different entirely.
Previously I raced in Hoka tracers which have 4mm drop, but have now gone back to higher drop but still lightweight for my races.
Top the OP, I was taught when you are running you should think you are looking over a fence, so straight back with a bit of a forward lean.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I'd agree with his assertion.
Forget the shoe for a moment and imagine the position of the foot when it makes contact with the ground.
I believe I land fairly flat. i.e my toes are level with or slightly below my heel. I prefer for my foot to take the initial load evenly or slightly forward. Probably what would be called a mid-foot strike. Now superimpose soles with various degrees of heel toe drop onto that foot position:

• Flat sole -> The base of the sole will be parallel with the underside of my foot. Thus my level or slightly toe down foot translates into a similar shoe undersurface orientation which means I will load my foot accordingly.
• Slight heel to toe drop -> The sole will no longer be parallel with my foot but rather lower at the back. Thus the any slight toe down approach to the ground is now reduced, neutralised or reversed. The heel is now closer to the ground and a mid foot strike will tend to be influenced towards a heelstrike unless the angle of the foot is adjusted to compensate.
• Large heel to toe drop -> As above but more pronounced. In my case, it's very difficult to run the way I like with a large heel toe drop. I tend to make contact with my heels too early and find it difficult if not impossible to comfortably compensate by adjusting my gait.

I'm not a great runner but my gait works reasonably well for me in bare feet or zero/low drop shoes. High drop shoes make me very uncomfortable. I originally ran in them and my gait was terrible. Eventually after injury problems I switched to zero drop and made some major changes to my very poor running posture. I'm far more comfortable and have virtually no injury issues now. I have on occasion tried running in more conventional high drop shoes again and can't maintain the style I now find so much more natural and comfortable.

Incidentally, I understand that how the foot is loaded is not quite as simple as angle of foot and is largely coupled with both vertical motion and position of contact point relative to centre of mass. However, when everything else is sorted, the shoe is capable of screwing it up again and a high drop will screw it up in the direction of heel striking if clearance is not already sufficient.

I can't remember ever seeing a pro runner with a notably bad posture. The fact they "all" run in shoes with large drop (are you sure about that?) doesn't tell me anything about whether there is or is not a connection between drop and posture. On the other hand, simple geometry does.

As I said in my last post. If you've already sufficient clearance then a high drop may not cause any difficulty. Otherwise it very well may.

Pretty much what Ai_1 already said. At any given foot angle and landing point, increasing the amount of heel drop increases the likelihood that the heel of the shoe will be the first thing to hit the ground.

Not getting into a debate on the merits of heel vs mid vs forefoot striking, that's been covered plenty of times and there's certainly no shortage of heel strikers who are quicker than me. But it is a factor in shoe choice.

Yes, the most common shoes are Vaporfly, Boston 6 and Adios Boost 3. All have a 10mm drop.
Really not sure where you are getting the idea that high drop is affecting posture, it's a weak core and poor form in general. The hips aren't going to go more forward when you have low drop.
Now what are you referring to when you are talking about clearance? If you are talking about overstriding then that is a problem, but switching to a lower drop shoe is not the only solution.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

You said "all pros run in shoes with big drop". I asked if you knew that to be true.
The fact that these 10mm drop shoes are the most common does not answer that question. If you are saying ALL pros wear them, then you're answering my question. But I doubt that is true. I don't actually know the answer, thus the question.

You are also misinterpreting what I've written about any potential link between big heel toe drop and posture problems. I did NOT blame big heel toe drop for most posture problems. I specifically disagreed with the OP who suggested shoe change as a direct solution to posture problems. I do believe there are cases where they can contribute to issues with gait, but to interpret that as you have is not accurate or fair.

Thank you, I understand your point

Oh come on, of course there will be outliers who run decent times with low drop shoes, but the best in the world all use high drop shoes. Arguing against that is just stupid.
There is no way to tell OP what is the best drop for him, but I'm just tired of this running barefoot trend and people preaching about it as if it is a gift from above, when it is clear that the best in the world don't agree.
Sorry if I misinterpreted your original post, it was this part that I still don't understand "A shoe with big drop MAY allow good posture or may cause problems with heel clearance."
I asked you in the post what you are referring to when you are talking about clearance, I assumed heel clearance was a reference to overstriding, but I may be wrong.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

But the fact that there are outliers undermines your entire point, does it not?
You suggested that since all pros run with big drop shoes, we shouldn't look elsewhere. That argument does not hold water for several reasons. One being that there are outlier and another being that these are pro runners. Why should we all compare ourselves to those at the very top level when most of us are approaching the sport with entirely different abilities and limitations. If I was going to call something stupid it would be the idea that we should always do what the pros do without questioning whether it is necessarily applicable to the diverse spectrum of lower level performers (like me for example).
So, I am not arguing against pros using these shoes. I'm arguing two things. One, that perhaps they don#t all use them. And two, that what they use is largely irrelevant to this discussion.


Who mentioned barefoot? Zero drop is not barefoot. Not wearing shoes is barefoot.
I described in my earlier post how a raised heel can influence gait. If you;re trying to work on your posture, it makes sense to eliminate any unnecessary factors. Heel rise (or toe drop) is an unnecessary factor. It's debatable whether it's advantageous but it's certainly not a necessity.
Two points about the best in the world. They are typically trying to run very fast. As a general rule we don't know whether or not they are working on posture issues. Second, the best runners in the world are not necessarily the most knowledgeable about running (although their coach, physio, etc may or may not be).


Apologies if that was not clear, I thought it was. I am referring to the clearance between the sole of the foot at the heel and the ground, at the point in time when some part of the shoe makes contact.
I am not making any assumptions about whether the runner is over-striding or whether they are better served heel striking or not. I am simply analysing the manner in which the foot is loaded upon making contact. The loading of the foot effects posture, it's one of a myriad of factors, including over-striding and others which you have mentioned.


Edit: These posts are getting a bit wordy! Congratulations on your stamina if you read the lot! ;)

Wow there is a lot of crap on this thread, some good stuff as well. Here is some reading to help sort through it

Read this: http://www.runresearchjunkie.com/is-the-drop-of-a-running-shoe-associated-with-injury-risk/ (pubmed link https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27501833)

There is this: http://www.runresearchjunkie.com/the-effect-of-footwear-on-running-performance/

This wouldn't be a bad read either: http://www.runresearchjunkie.com/how-good-are-runners-at-self-identifying-their-foot-strike-pattern/



OP: when it comes to shoes worry about which shoe is comfortable, not the drop, especially after you think about the implications of the third link above. You need to go to your local running store (LRS) and try on a bunch of shoes. After helping 100's of people select running shoes in the past year, here are some thoughts on what I've noticed.


Comfort first, how a shoe feels when running, one of the last things you should worry about is drop. In fact when you go to your LRS tell them not to tell you the drop of a shoe. Go test run them and see if you notice it. My guess is you'll be hard pressed to tell a 4 from a 6 from an 8mm drop.

If the shoe feels bad when you put it on and stand in it, it's probably not going to feel good running in it.
You need to go run up/down the sidewalk in front of the store or on the treadmill in the store. If you can't run in the shoe at the store they better have a damn good return policy
You need to try on multiple shoes, multiple brands not just one shoe. Don't be afraid to have 1 brand on 1 foot then 1 brand on the other foot and go test run them against each other. IMO that's the best way to figure out The Shoe from the shoes you like.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta