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How often do you do brick sessions?
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And do you exclusively use them as a seasonally-specific stimulus or at the same frequency year-round? To quantify, maybe answer as "one brick run in every x number of runs". Olympic distance is what I'm most interested in, if that matters. Thanks.
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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [domingjm] [ In reply to ]
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Out of curiousity, what do you consider to be a brick? Does a 1 h bike followed by 15 min transition run count? Or do both compoments need to be solid time lengths?

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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [Tsunami] [ In reply to ]
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That's pretty close to what I had in mind. Some surrogate of a 25 mile bike followed by a 3 to 5 mile run.
Edit: the focal component being minimal time in between the two disciplines.
Last edited by: domingjm: Jun 13, 18 19:30
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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [domingjm] [ In reply to ]
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I do them both ways. run 4, swim 1600, run 4 and bike 25 followed by 2 - 4 mile run. One each week.

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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [domingjm] [ In reply to ]
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I do a run off the bike (5 miles) 3x a week. I run (10 miles) out of the pool once or twice a week. Not for training, but for lack of time.
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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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I think bricks are convenient and help with frequency.
I don’t think they are a tremendously valuable “key workouts.”

That said, a couple of times a year I will do: a 30 minute bike followed by a 18 mile run (Ironman) , or a 100 mile bike followed by a 4 mile run (Ironman), or 2 hr bike followed by an 8 mile tempo run (70.3).
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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [domingjm] [ In reply to ]
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Doing them to get used to the feeling of running when your legs are fatigued is a bad idea. You just run slow with bad form, in most cases. Running after a bike is still running and your race run-speed will be determined by your run fitness and your bike pacing. Now, if you are doing the Olympics and need to crank out a low 5 min mile right out of the blocks then you might do a bit of transition practice, but that means you only need to run about 5 minutes after riding. Even then, in the midst of training it may not be that helpful, again because your legs are tired.
Stringing together runs and rides is a good way to maximize available training time, but do your run first and then ride.
Chad
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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [domingjm] [ In reply to ]
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Conventional wisdom says to do it one or twice a week after a bike session preferably within half an hour...I usually do my bike then change and then go run within that half hour window ...other times I just go in my tri suit to get used to running in that ....I usually do minimum once per week but I have heard of some athletes doing it 3-4 times per week. I would interested to hear what the pros on ST think.
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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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cdw wrote:
Doing them to get used to the feeling of running when your legs are fatigued is a bad idea. You just run slow with bad form, in most cases. Running after a bike is still running and your race run-speed will be determined by your run fitness and your bike pacing. Now, if you are doing the Olympics and need to crank out a low 5 min mile right out of the blocks then you might do a bit of transition practice, but that means you only need to run about 5 minutes after riding. Even then, in the midst of training it may not be that helpful, again because your legs are tired.
Stringing together runs and rides is a good way to maximize available training time, but do your run first and then ride.
Chad

I think this idea is picking up momentum, especially in the longer events. I think Endurance Nation has completely eliminated bricks from their half and full plans. Is there some benefit--probably, but the risk of injury rises significantly. Most of what they write says that poor run performance is typically a lack of fitness OR poor pacing/nutrition on the bike.

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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
I think bricks are convenient and help with frequency.
I don’t think they are a tremendously valuable “key workouts.”

That said, a couple of times a year I will do: a 30 minute bike followed by a 18 mile run (Ironman) , or a 100 mile bike followed by a 4 mile run (Ironman), or 2 hr bike followed by an 8 mile tempo run (70.3).

I disagree with the lack of value. I'm focused on 70.3 right now and I can tell you that 2 hours @ 83% FTP (Polar Bear on TR) followed directly by 7 miles at goal pace helped me tremendously. I did it once during a final build (3 weeks out) and had tons of confidence knowing exactly what I could push on the bike and come off fresh.
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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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My 70.3 training plan had several tempo brick sessions. Something like 60-90 minutes on the bike (with intervals) + 60 minute run (with intervals). Turned out to be some of my favorite workouts.
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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [trismitty] [ In reply to ]
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trismitty wrote:
cdw wrote:
Doing them to get used to the feeling of running when your legs are fatigued is a bad idea. You just run slow with bad form, in most cases. Running after a bike is still running and your race run-speed will be determined by your run fitness and your bike pacing. Now, if you are doing the Olympics and need to crank out a low 5 min mile right out of the blocks then you might do a bit of transition practice, but that means you only need to run about 5 minutes after riding. Even then, in the midst of training it may not be that helpful, again because your legs are tired.
Stringing together runs and rides is a good way to maximize available training time, but do your run first and then ride.
Chad


I think this idea is picking up momentum, especially in the longer events. I think Endurance Nation has completely eliminated bricks from their half and full plans. Is there some benefit--probably, but the risk of injury rises significantly. Most of what they write says that poor run performance is typically a lack of fitness OR poor pacing/nutrition on the bike.

From a FMOP perspective, I agree. I do almost zero bricks, training for 9th Ironman now and run has steadily improved, and expect sub 4 next time out. I will throw in a few in the course of a 10 week plan but not not to the frequency I see most triathletes doing. My 2 cents if your experienced there's minimal value to bricks, running long Sunday after a hard bike Saturday is sufficient.
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Re: How often do you do brick sessions? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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cloy wrote:
Velocibuddha wrote:
I think bricks are convenient and help with frequency.
I don’t think they are a tremendously valuable “key workouts.”

That said, a couple of times a year I will do: a 30 minute bike followed by a 18 mile run (Ironman) , or a 100 mile bike followed by a 4 mile run (Ironman), or 2 hr bike followed by an 8 mile tempo run (70.3).


I disagree with the lack of value. I'm focused on 70.3 right now and I can tell you that 2 hours @ 83% FTP (Polar Bear on TR) followed directly by 7 miles at goal pace helped me tremendously. I did it once during a final build (3 weeks out) and had tons of confidence knowing exactly what I could push on the bike and come off fresh.

Score me for limited value apart from training efficiency. It's all personal and there is no right answer, but for me, the value of brick workouts decline each year I'm in the sport as my legs already know the deal. I'm not looking for familiarization with what it feels like; I'm not looking for confidence that I can do it; I'm not looking for a practice run; etc. So yeah, I agree with Velocibuddha that they aren't that valuable as a "key workout." I still do them occasionally but it's not a big deal if I don't get it in.
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