Can you tell how much do you run after bike? and what bike session?
I think is not same run after bike?
I try to up my run in Tri. Run only 10k is 41, but in tri it is 46-47. I think 5 min diff. in is too much?

Hey Pako,

I tend to mix it up. Long bike on moderate power followed by half Ironman pace running for say...40 minutes.

Or

Bike intervals followed by 1 hour of easy running.

Or

Short hard intervals followed by 10k pace running.


It sounds like you may be over doing the bike if your splits are that far apart between an open 10k and a triathlon 10k. I have not tested my open 10k in a while but would guess I am at most 60-90 seconds faster in an open 10k format.

Hello LifeTri,
Thank you for your reply.
By saying overdoing Bike split , do you mean pushing too hard?
I would not like to let my bike split go down. I still try to push more. I feel like not enough run in pain zone, but I am not sure ?
As I mentioned in my post earlier I had some good results after the Brick sesions but lost the pace at 5-6k into the run on the race day.

If you look at all the research on bike/run training you'll see that all the neurological differences in running off the bike revert to normal running motor patterning in as little as 300m and 1 study found 1000m. Most are 400m or less.

Which means that doing a whatever bike then 20-xx minute run to get used to that feeling is stupid. You'd be much better off doing B/R repeated many times over. Go ride 3-6k very hard then run 30--600m very fast. set up transition and repeat..about 4-6 more times.

You want to learn to run fast, run fast on fresh legs so you can lift your run fitness as high as possible. The fitter/faster of a runner you are for open 10ks the faster you'll run in a triathlon if you don't F yourself by making poor decisions...which at least 30% of the field does each race.

The 38min open 10k runner has nothing to worry about from the 40:30 open 10k runner in a triathlon if they make relatively decent decisions in the race. Bricks aren't going to overcome that sort of speed difference. Sure they may help you lose :05 less in the first 500m of the race, but then you've still got 9.5k to worry about.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Ok Brian, Thank you. All understood and taken onboard.-)
But why I can run 41 fresh and loosing 5-6 mins in tri race?

Marcin

Never.

I simply cannot be arsed.

coming off the bike the biggest issues are not if you've done brick runs or not. The issues are you've been racing for >1:20 and you have some level of dehydration, glycogen depletion, CNS & PNS fatigue

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Thank you Brian,
Other words , those systems need to be trained, and the best way is Brick with race pace simulation?

You hit the nail on the head. You're body is fatiguing from the bike, without looking at data it's difficult to know if it's because of the bike or you didn't pace yourself well enough on the run. Your muscles can transition quickly from biking to running mechanics. However the slowing down could be caused by muscular fatigue (CNS and PNS the nervous systems).

The solution would be to build up to running the duration at goal pace off of the bike. Another tip would be to train the nervous system to continue being efficient when fatigue (brick runs and strength training). In my professional endeavors specificity can be a beautiful thing. Keep doing brick workouts.

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__________________

Louie Frank Cicchino
Accelero Endurance

I’m a fan of running off the bike and do it for 4 out of the 5/6 runs I do per week. Not so much for finding the pace right off the bike as Brian mentioned, but because I feel like I better get used to running on tired legs by race day. Also, with all the work, cycling, swimming, and functional strength stuff I gotta do too there isn’t much choice but to get the run in after a bike sesh.

Now, one of those “bricks” I’m talking about is my track workout which I commute to on my bike. And that’s more because I think it’s dumb to drive to a workout if you can help it so I bike there for the extra mileage and it makes a good warmup.

I never ride before my long run on Sundays. Gonna get plenty of mileage in the sneakers on that one anyway.

My two cents even if Brian thinks I’m stupid. His girlfriend calls him “yummy” so opinions obviously vary. :)

Cheers,

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thechromedome
http://www.favoritefinishlines.blogspot.com
http://www.cupcakecartel.org
My 20% off code for 2018 FS Series races: tricred18
"there are no drafters in heaven" - C Bonner

Thank you Gents, very much!
I have got all the answers I was looking for:-)
I will update later how did it go , if anyone will be interested.
Thank you again!
Marcin

I find the bulk of the value in bricks is learning how to pace immediately off the bike. I'm at the point where I get off the bike when paced properly, and DAMN I feel good. I can go out quick and not even realize it. Then halfway through the half-marathon, I'm wondering where the hell my legs are. So the bricks off the bike are usually 2-3 milers after 50+ mile rides (training for a 70.3) just to dial in pacing and RPE at my desired pace. Later, in race-specific training, I'll do other bricks where I do a short ride at race pace into a long race-sim run.

So in Base, I do one brick per week, usually 2 miles or so off the bike after my long ride.

Build, I'll continue the brick after my long ride, and add a 30 minute bike ride prior to my long race-sim run. (Two per week).

Peak phase, it's two, and they're very race focused, usually one run-focused and one bike-focused.

You don't need to go crazy with bricks, in my opinion. There's no need to do a run after every bike, or bike before every run. You make the psychological and physiological adaptations and dial the skill and your pacing in without doing that every single time, and that's really what the brick is all about IMO.