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How much do pros hate each other?
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Obviously some pros are closer than other, but at the end of the day your competition could be taking your money and livelihood. I see how Jan Frodeno has training partners and spends tons of time with them, but his partners are always people he doesn't see as threats to his dominance. McNamee was Frodo's training partner, but as soon as he got 3rd in Kona they didn't train together anymore. Tim Reed used to coach Sam Appleton, then Sam Appleton started throwing down and beating Tim Reed in races. Tim Reed stopped coaching Sam Appleton (Granted, I see on instagram that they are still friends).

I know many pros exchange pleasantries and even converse like friends, but it seems as though there is always going to be that divide. I know Potts has said many times that he lives in Colorado Springs instead of Boulder because he doesn't want to hangout and see his competition everyday.

So how much do pros really dislike/hate each other? Or is it you're able to be friends once you reach a certain level of sponsorship and you don't have to sweat singular race results outside of Kona?

Team Zoot 2023
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
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I think there is a lot more to it than what your thinking. A lot of the examples you listed might not be hate but rather conflict on interest or life of a pro athlete.

- Do you want your competition to know your training strategies? No
- Do you want your competition coaching you? No
- Do training regiments and coaches change where you might no longer be able to train with your buddy who has a different coach? Yes

On race day, they are your worst enemy, that often needs to be your mindset to be at that level. When the race is done and the engines are cooled, they are just competitors. I believe in recent interviews LA mentioned he physiologically struggled to turn off the worst enemy concept which compounded a lot of his troubles.

That is without saying there probably are grudges and personality conflicts that cause pros to dislike each other.
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
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I think you are going to get a variety of answers. People need different things and what works for some is what WOULDN'T work for others. By and large I think triathlon is probably a lot healthier in terms of relationships and feelings than other sports but that may just be me and it would be casual observation of other sports. Pro meetings are a lot of fun and while there is some jabbing it is all well and good. I think what might more be more interesting of a subject is the amateurs in the sport. Do they like each other and do they want each other to succeed outside of their own little clique or even within. Don't get me wrong, there is still drama in the pro ranks but by and large I doubt anyone really hates anyone with a true passion. I think part of this comes from the lack of money in the sport in general. Maybe there is more of this at the very top, I don't know and I am not qualified to answer.


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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I look at the Kienle and Jan friendship, they appear to be good friends. At times though, Kienle has made some stink about being asked questions about Jan vs. being asked about his race plans. Kienle and Jan are pretty taken care of by sponsors though, so they really get to focus on a select number of races vs. going all the time to get the prize checks. That being said, Jan and Kienle have expressed some disinterest in Lange. I don't know if it's form or style, but it seems like Lange doesn't have a lot of friends among those top guys.

The Tim Reed thing I understand because he was essentially giving Appo the tools that made Reed super successful. It's a little bit of a shame for Appo though, he had an incredible streak under Reed's coaching.

It's an interesting concept about Lance not being able to turn off the race day ideology. The social aspect of sports is often overlooked, but it can definitely change perception of legacy and how they're viewed by peers. It's the classic Kobe vs. MJ. MJ was a socialite among the NBA and hung out with everybody. Kobe came into the league really young and was not able to go and drink/socialize with teammates and was somewhat ostracized. NBA players will tell you the legend of MJ playing cards all night and then going right into 36 holes of golf. Kobe would be the last guy out of the gym and first guy in the next morning. Both machines, but definitely in different aspects.

Team Zoot 2023
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
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T.O. and Rinni do not hate each other (most days :))
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [B.McMaster] [ In reply to ]
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B.McMaster wrote:
T.O. and Rinni do not hate each other (most days :))

There was a bit of animosity between those two when Tim couldn't zip tie a bottle cage to his saddle fast enough.... :P
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [AndysStrongAle] [ In reply to ]
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AndysStrongAle wrote:


- Do you want your competition to know your training strategies? No
- Do you want your competition coaching you? No


That's a little overblown, and indicates a little bit of a fearful mindset. Historically, across all sports, there are myriad examples of the best of the best all emerging from "training cohorts" where the best athletes train with each other regularly. In triathlon that's true with the mythical 80's San Diego cohort, Tinley, Scott, Molina, et al. They'd tear the shit out of each other on weekdays while training. Then on weekends while racing. Or with the various Sutton contingents. Brownlees, etc. The "rising tide lifts all boats" effect.

I think the notion of super-secret training strategies is a bit overblown. There's not a ton of mystery. And exposing your training in full to your opponents can be to your psychological advantage. If you can handle a higher training load than anyone else, make that public and demoralize them. Inspire them to drive themselves into the ground trying to handle the same load.

Part of productive competitive mindset is learning to compartmentalize "competitive rage" and not let it turn to general "hate" or paranoid fear that someone might learn something from you.
Last edited by: trail: Aug 16, 19 17:36
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
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when I was a pro they like you and treat you like a groupie with tips and encouragement. Until you beat them and take there lunch money. Then they don't hate you but they don't give you any love.

So is life I guess.


The guys that are financial safe in life with outside income all get along and are friendly as livelihood is not effected by outcomes.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
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My impression of the ITU is they generally get along. Some of those training groups are wild - dudes like Luis, Mola and Geens training together all the time, then smashing each other. They generally seem genuinely happy for each other at the finish. Lots of positive talk on social media.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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I appreciate the insight and what you're saying kind of echoes what I thought. I look at Frodeno with Nick Kastelein and Nano Oliveras, those guys are in nearly every picture and training session with Jan, but they aren't the first. Nano Oliveras replaced David McNamee, until McNamee became too close for comfort for Jan.

The ITU seems a little more friendly since there's a country representation thing going on, there's also federation money, and a lot of opportunities to race and make your dollars.

The superstars of the sport seem to be safe and friendly, but that number of superstars is much smaller than people realize. You can probably name the superstars on one hand:

Men:

Jan Frodeno
Sebastian Kienle
Lionel Sanders
Patrick Lange
Tim O'Donnell
Braden Currie (Check his kit, dude has more sponsors than anybody)

So slightly more than one hand

Women:

Daniela Ryf
Miranda Carfrae
Lucy Charles
Heather Jackson


As Thomas pointed out, the lack of overall money in the sport can contribute to that cutthroat nature. If the money spread further, then people would probably be more cordial. I think this nature of the haves vs. the have nots of sponsorship make the decline of an athlete much more depressing. I can recall a few years ago Chris McCormack searching for a bike sponsorship when he was past his prime and was racing like twice a year and he definitely had to swallow his pride to realize that the money wasn't there for him anymore.

Team Zoot 2023
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
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Your polydactyl?

.

Once, I was fast. But I got over it.
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [hblake] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure I comprehend, but I wish. If I had some extra digits I probably wouldn't be such a shit swimmer.

Team Zoot 2023
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
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It was a tongue and cheek comment. You said “You can probably name the superstars on one hand” and the proceeded to list 6 men

Matt
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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Haha, gotcha. Yeah, I went in with one hand and then had to amend it at the end by saying "Almost on one hand." Still could make some use out of the extra fingers, perhaps some webbing wouldn't kill me either.

Team Zoot 2023
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
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aerobean wrote:
I appreciate the insight and what you're saying kind of echoes what I thought. I look at Frodeno with Nick Kastelein and Nano Oliveras, those guys are in nearly every picture and training session with Jan, but they aren't the first. Nano Oliveras replaced David McNamee, until McNamee became too close for comfort for Jan.

The ITU seems a little more friendly since there's a country representation thing going on, there's also federation money, and a lot of opportunities to race and make your dollars.

The superstars of the sport seem to be safe and friendly, but that number of superstars is much smaller than people realize. You can probably name the superstars on one hand:

Men:

Jan Frodeno
Sebastian Kienle
Lionel Sanders
Patrick Lange
Tim O'Donnell
Braden Currie (Check his kit, dude has more sponsors than anybody)

So slightly more than one hand

Women:

Daniela Ryf
Miranda Carfrae
Lucy Charles
Heather Jackson


As Thomas pointed out, the lack of overall money in the sport can contribute to that cutthroat nature. If the money spread further, then people would probably be more cordial. I think this nature of the haves vs. the have nots of sponsorship make the decline of an athlete much more depressing. I can recall a few years ago Chris McCormack searching for a bike sponsorship when he was past his prime and was racing like twice a year and he definitely had to swallow his pride to realize that the money wasn't there for him anymore.

How does a list of superstars NOT include the 2 time defending Olympic Champion?
If the definition includes those with a lot of sponsors - Where is Andy Potts on your list?
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
I think you are going to get a variety of answers. People need different things and what works for some is what WOULDN'T work for others. By and large I think triathlon is probably a lot healthier in terms of relationships and feelings than other sports but that may just be me and it would be casual observation of other sports. Pro meetings are a lot of fun and while there is some jabbing it is all well and good. I think what might more be more interesting of a subject is the amateurs in the sport. Do they like each other and do they want each other to succeed outside of their own little clique or even within. Don't get me wrong, there is still drama in the pro ranks but by and large I doubt anyone really hates anyone with a true passion. I think part of this comes from the lack of money in the sport in general. Maybe there is more of this at the very top, I don't know and I am not qualified to answer.

Your reference to AG relationships is a good analogy. There are some in my AG that I like to see even it means I'm probably going to finish one slot lower. There are a few that I don't want to see at all (unless if by some miracle they finish behind me). All AGers outside of my AG are ok as long as they don't negatively impact my result or me theirs.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [B.McMaster] [ In reply to ]
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Because no one on Slowtwitch watches short course.

Except maybe Halvard when the Norwegians are on fire.

***
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Re: How much do pros hate each other? [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
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Hate is a strong word. I think they get a long but there is some "proprietary" information that they don't share with each other that keeps them separate.
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