my feeling is that we are going to start giving out names of people that may be taking nothing...as lance says in a commercial: "people ask me what I am on. What I am on? I am on my bike 6hrs a day, everyday, that's what I am on'...
therefore, the thread (which is entirely valid) should be moderated to make sure that noone gives a name, and noone gives a hint on to who they are pointing.

Francois,

I would take just the opposite position. Unless one is willing to name an athlete one saw using drugs firsthand and sign their name to the statement, they are just hypothesizing and giving unfounded opinion.

Tony Geller

I agree with you. However, this is a valid point that Tom raised. There is certainly drugs in triathlon. But fundamentally I agree with you. unless we have intangible evidence, we are the speculating and will end up hurting someone.

I'm certainly not among the ranks of elite athletes, but I've used banned substances on a few occasions. Over the counter recovery supplements, dietary supplements, and even nasal decongestants have been banned by the UCI and USAC, when I was competing I would use these substances for what they were intended, not for their potential performance enhancement. This is a fine line that many pro athletes have crossed as in the case of Scott Moninger, a pro cyclist that tested positive for a banned substance not even listed in the ingredients of a supplement he was taking.

Here's a similar question, would you "illegally" enhance your performance if it gave you the extra 0.4% it took to take you from 4th place at the Olympics to 1st, or even 2nd?

Multivitamin (Centrum Senior--ouch! No iron in this one, as found in most multivitamins), extra vitamin E, MSM with glucosamine and chondroitin (can you believe a western medical doctor told me to take these?), and NO NSAIDs. If I'm hurting, I use ice, not drugs.

---

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Tom,

I only wish that I could make an educated guess. There is so much obfuscation, back-pedaling, and outright lying surrounding this issue that I wouldn't venture to say.

---

TonyG

What is Enoch Root?

It would depend on the drug in question and the risks involved. I've never taken performance enhancing drugs myself, but I think people are irrational about their potential dangers. There are dangers, and that certainly isn't to be ignored. But what are your chances of dying from taking (some) drugs as compared to dying from training on busy roads. It's much safer not to train, but we do it because it enhances performance. So why not outlaw training to keep cyclists from getting hit by cars, and swimmers from drowning. I'm certainly not suggesting everyone grab a syringe of EPO, but I don't think people are rational about it. Too many cups of coffee and you're over the legal limit of caffeine. How many athletes have died from too much coffee? Yet it's a banned substance in too high quantities. I think it's just like anything else. People are scared of things they don't understand. Not all performance enhancing drugs are dangerous--certainly not as dangerous as training. So where does it end? Carbs improve performance, but in too high quantities they're bad for you. I guess they're next on the list?

I think it is more rampant in europe than most think, my reasoning. when triathletes are working with doctors like Bernard Saiz(dr mabuse) and Michele Ferrari who are "known to use illegal substances with there cyclists clients" why wouldn't they be using the same methods with their triathletes. The good thing in triathlon that i believe is that it is still possible to win triathlons without drugs as many do. I hope this stays like this forever fingers crossed. a good site in french lists all known positive tests in cycling. you'll be suprised who's names pop up again and again and again. big names too!!!!i'm not sure of the address. something like dopefree.fr or something similar

Where does one find a list of what's banned in multisport? For example, I've recently had an inhaled steroid - fluticasone - prescribed for continuous use to fight a lung problem.

to cam: you are quite naive thinking it is more of a problem in Europe than in North America.
As you mention Michele Ferrari and seem to be pointing directly at some euro triathletes (I guess all can put a name as to who you are pointing). To respect the rule I have mentioned earlier in the thread, you should avoid this, as I could do the same and it would also be "rumors".
Ben Johnson, CJ Hunter have been busted. they are in NA.

For FB: http://www.usantidoping.org
fluticasone is ok with a prescription filed to the governing body of your sport. it is one of the steriod used against asthma and is allowed in inhaler when filed.

I think it is rather safe to say drug use in triathlon exists. As long as there are financial rewards there will be drug use. When I ran XC in college they sat all the athletes down and we had our annual drug, school policys, how to behave, etc lecture. They also gave out a questionnaire. One of the questions was along the lines of 'If you could take a banned performance enhancing substance, and win a Gold medal at the next Olympics and this drug would cause you to die 5 years after you win that Gold Medal, would you do it? The next year they sat us down again went through the usual please don't get drunk at hotels etc and gave us the answer to the questions. The only thing that shocked me in 3 years of these lectures was the answer to that question. About 80% of the entire athlete population at my Div I school answered yes. They would take a drug even if it killed them to win a Gold medal. Needless to say we all had to sit through another lecture on the cons of performance enhancing drugs that year.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

The enormous growth of companies like EAS in part based on andro indicate widespread use of these drugs. I'm sure these drugs have spread beyond bodybuilding.

People on this thread talked about athlete's willing to risk death by taking drugs for championships and athletes have taken these risks. But we never see the dead bodies.

But the dead bodies are accumulating. At the risk of slandering the innocent here's a short list.

Lyle Alzado - foofball player- attributed his own death to use of steroids

Kim Gallagher - 800 meter Olympic medalist - died last year in mid 30's no proof, but coach had been involved in drug cases.

Ben Plucknett - discuss record holder - suspended for drug use - dead at 48 - no proof

Florence griffith joyner - suspicious career development - dead in 30's - no proof

Walter Payton - football player - no proof - not sure of nature of his liver disease if it could be steroid related.

If you are an athlete and die young, it doesn't mean you did drugs, but the widespread use of drugs creates suspicion. I'm sure many names can be added to the list.

My own personal speculation - If drug use isn't at the pro level aready, it is probably fair to assume that it ill likely be there soon as the purses continue to get bigger. Can't imagine that very many AG tri people would be doing this although probably a few might. This is quite a contrast to a gym I belonged to years ago that was of full some real bonehead bodybuilders and weight lifters. These guys/gals weren't anywhere near Mr/Ms. Olympia but used to pass roids around in the change room. Imagine taking roids so you can look big in the gym. How stupid can anyone be.

My completed uneducated, utterly random- thouroughly unsubstantiated wild assed guess is that 15% of top professional triathletes willfully use substances they know are banned with the intent of improving their performance. Furthermore, my utterly random feeling is that most those who do use them (and maybe this is the moralist in me) eventually fail at the sport after a brief success. That's my .02 And, I never let not knowing about a topic stand in the way of having an opinion on it. This is prime example.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

of course i don't think that the drug problem is isolated to europe. It's certainly not. I was mearly pointing out that if triathletes are working with doctors that are known to supply triathletes with drugs it would be naive to think that they would be any different. I know how dangerous this subject can be so I guess I shouldn't of named names. North America.... well we must look at the last 2 positive tests in triathlon....were did they come from.....eh Canada wasn't it.....?????

These same doctors happen to also work with american cyclists.
So, are you suggesting that we should assume that these american cyclists should not be any different and are also given epo and other things by Ferrari (among others)?

i know americans use it but come on it is more accepted overseas

On what do you based yourself to say that? on the reports made by the media? Have you been overseas? Have you raced there?

Trivia Q: which sport had a top athlete admitting using steroids without being sanctioned?
Hint: it's a boring sport, where nothing happens, which looks like cricket, which is an other (more boring) sport where nothing happens (sorry to all my aussie mates...vegemite was tough to swallow, cricket was simply unbearable :-))

do not believe everything you read in magazines, see on tv etc...

Anyone here believes that all the NFL players are drug free???

ok i think this is getting a little off the subject so to clarify my thoughts on Tom's original post.

Q.How many triathletes do you think are on drugs.
A. Heaps but not as many as clean

By the way to anwser Francios question on how do I know, have I been to Europe etc. Well yes I have and are quiet good friends with a few people very in the know with cycling in Europe. ie, employed by Div. 1 teams....big div 1 teams.

By the way the "Cricketer" in question was done for a dieretic. Is this a steriod? I'm no chemist but i don't think it is although I'm very glad he got banned. I think zero tolerance is the only way with this problem we have.

I was actually referring to a baseball player...
forgot his name though...who is the big home runner dude who openly admitted using androstenodione or something like that.

before talking about what is going in europe, look in your 3 major championships. Yes cycling is (was) quite dirty. I was there. I quit cycling in France for that very reason.

is it more a problem in Europe than in the US?
certainly not. it's a problem everywhere.

is it easier to get products in Europe than in here? Well, I ride 1 here, and apparently many are getting "stuff" from Mexico (being in El Paso, Juarez isn't too far).

Is there drug in tri: for sure.
is it more euros? no
is it more americans? no

it's a problem for everyone.

however, as I have already said, drafting is more a problem. the gain you get from drafting is more than what any drug would give you.

Francois wrote: the gain you get from drafting is more than what any drug would give you.

Well put. BTW, it was Mark McGuire you were referring to.

---

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

sorry about that. you are right about those american sports. i have trained with some of these athletes and i know the use is high. what i should have said was the use is more accepted among the endurance sports. that would make since because those sports are more popular over there.
with that said, i have been asked by some triathletes(all age groupers) about different steroids and whether they would help in a race. don't know if they ever tried them. doubt it though
agree on the drafting thing

redneck writes:
i have trained with some of these athletes and i know the use is high.

and cam writes:
By the way to answer Francios question on how do I know, have I been to Europe etc. Well yes I have and are quiet good friends with a few people very in the know with cycling in Europe. ie, employed by Div. 1 teams....big div 1 teams.

Well reneck and cam, who are these athletes you have seen, firsthand, use drugs. Otherwise you're just spreading unfounded rumor.

Tony Geller