I think your premise is wrong. The P5x and Shiv are definitely for consumers. You're just not in that class of consumer. (and neither am I)

And the Andean is listed as a $2000 frameset and $4000 for the SRAM Force build. Which is crazy cheap - not sure why you're including it with the Shiv and P5X.

They’re the preview to the cheaper consumer product.

You’ll see them roll down to their other bikes in the next couple years.

Obviously the P5X and new Shiv are consumer products. But over $10k how many can they sell? I can’t imagine them selling enough to make a blip on their bottom line. To me Cervelo hasn’t made a real disc bike until it’s P2, 3 or 5. I just don’t think companies are serious about disc bikes until their offerings are $5k or below. To me they’re just making these crazy high end disc bikes to create instagram buzz. Not to actually move bikes.

This is how all new bike releases start. High end first then cheaper models later.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I def get that. I just think it’s interesting that in the middle of the “disc craze” we have literally 1 company QR that’s selling legit disc offerings today.

Check out the Dolan TR1: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...tring=dolan#p6746973

Not on their website yet but you can see that the price is very much consumer.

As it's not one of their reputable track frames I suspect that it's an open mould frame so who knows, it might turn up as a Kestrel in the US next year...

SteveMc

Felt's disc lineup has the IA3 with a 5,799 msrp at least.

They've got a couple of pricepoints!

The bike in the image on the link is over £6k gbp - I'm not paying that for a Dolan (or any bike) with no testing or proof that it is in any way helpful in an aero sense. Any of us can draw a thing we think looks aero and get a frame from alibaba that looks a little bit like it. Their cheapest one is still about £3500 gpb which to me is still a massive chunk of cash. Id want to be sure. Even if that means waiting and getting a roll down Felt IA next year or the year after because at least the frame is fast and well put together.

I know! That’s what I wanted to see! I ride an IA10 rim brake version and love it. May be selling soon...

What is your cutoff? There are several frames around $4000.

Also, the andean is $2,000 and you don't count that?

This is akin to the car world

What the S550 gets today your C300 gets in 3 years...has been like this forever.

Anyone wonder why tri is shrinking?

I do. But I don't think this is it. You don't need this stuff to be competitive or have fun. I can put together a tri bike for <$1000 that will leave you with a barely a competitive disadvantage to someone on a P5x. P3 aluminum frameset (couple hundred), used HED Jets, (few hundred) used Profile bars, used 105, behind the seat bottle carrier.

If you mean that the perception that this is the stuff that matters in triathlon is dominating the image of triathlon, then you might be on to something.

Tri has a perception that it's expensive. Calling a 6k bike crazy cheap only reinforces it.

It depends on the audience. I'm a down-to-earth guy. I wouldn't call that cheap among beginner triathletes. Or almost anyone.

But this thread is about very high-end bikes. On a forum that tends to be the gathering place for discussing very high-end bikes.

And the Andean, among the class of high-end bikes, is very cheap. It's highest-end configuration is priced at the mid-tier level for everyone else.

It's like if you're at a sports car club, and call the Subaru WRX STI cheap. Which it is compared to the 911 Turbo.

Edit: And I ride a used 2012 Felt DA tricked out with mostly used parts...

Only a minuscule portion of triathletes would actually want an Andean. So no I don’t consider that a real offering. I just don’t think disc brakes will “arrive” in triathlon for another 2-3 years. I find it a little annoying that companies are claiming to “go disc” but they aren’t making anything someone is actually going to buy. When you can get an Ultegra Cervelo P2 disc for under $3,000 complete then we can consider disc brakes legit in tri. That’s just my opinion.

 

Sure, so can I. The issue is that people that don't know much about bikes have no shot in hell at doing that. Someone who is just getting into the sport will walk into a shop, see a baseline Cervelo or whatever for $3k and turn around and walk out - that is where the sport is losing people.

Regarding the Andean, sure it is cheap but they can't even get their pros to ride them. Michael Weiss is the only pro on that bike as far as I know. Try and put a 5'2 110lb girl on that bike and you're setting her up for a terrible day in any crosswinds at all.

The sport was never cheap but We’re not losing people because it’s super expensive either.

In 2009 a P2 frameset was still $2k, now a full
P2 is 2800.

When I bought a p3c frameset in 2006 when it came out it was 3600. The new p3frameset is now 3000. Bikes have gotten cheaper not more expensive except on the top end. A top end that didn’t exist 10 years ago.

The only people who are saying oh crap that is too expensive are the people who are going into a shop that is stupid enough to say you have to have a triathlon bike to do a triathlon. Given how many people don’t have a tri bike at your average race show that it’s not happening often.

You can pick up a Domane Al for 850. No it’s not going to be the best bike in the world but it’ll still work. It shouldn’t be news to anyone that fast products and sports that require these products can be expensive.

The only people that seem to be perpetuating this rumor are the ones who don’t understand this, can’t afford it but need it to get to FOP on the bike, or the ones of us who used to be able to get a new top of the line bike 10 years ago for 5k, where the new ones now are pushing 15k.

The sport isn’t expensive if you don’t want it to be.

The issue is that people that don't know much about bikes have no shot in hell at doing that. Someone who is just getting into the sport will walk into a shop, see a baseline Cervelo or whatever for $3k and turn around and walk out - that is where the sport is losing people.

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So can I ask something.....and it's something I ask people all the time when they scoff at prices. One time a guy came into the bike shop and said he didnt want to "spend alot"...I asked his budget- he said $700. I asked him had he looked at prices of bikes in Wal Mart these days, bikes in Walmart are $450 dollars these days.


So what would you say is a reasonable price?

Should a carbon bike with Shimano 105 be $2k max instead of $2800?

Is $2k too much?

ETA: I actually dont see as many people turned off by the prices of bikes as you seem to imply. Or shall I say the people who are actually serious at this. If they want to do 1 tri because their co-worker got their work team to sign up for one, and they need "gear" then yeah. But maybe they stay in the sport and maybe they dont, but they are looking to do this as cheaply as possible. I kinda get the sense that most people have a sense of worth when they go into particular shops (or atleast understand after leaving that there are price point options). I'm not going to go into the ferrari dealership and scoff at the prize because it's not the same prize as the kia down the road. I generallly think most people shop like that, they get an understanding that you want a cheaper priced option, you have those options (even if you get that info from said expensive bike shop competitor, etc).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

 
So can I ask something.....and it's something I ask people all the time when they scoff at prices. One time a guy came into the bike shop and said he didnt want to "spend alot"...I asked his budget- he said $700. I asked him had he looked at prices of bikes in Wal Mart these days, bikes in Walmart are $450 dollars these days.


So what would you say is a reasonable price?

Should a carbon bike with Shimano 105 be $2k max instead of $2800?

Is $2k too much?

ETA: I actually dont see as many people turned off by the prices of bikes as you seem to imply. Or shall I say the people who are actually serious at this. If they want to do 1 tri because their co-worker got their work team to sign up for one, and they need "gear" then yeah. But maybe they stay in the sport and maybe they dont, but they are looking to do this as cheaply as possible. I kinda get the sense that most people have a sense of worth when they go into particular shops (or atleast understand after leaving that there are price point options). I'm not going to go into the ferrari dealership and scoff at the prize because it's not the same prize as the kia down the road. I generallly think most people shop like that, they get an understanding that you want a cheaper priced option, you have those options (even if you get that info from said expensive bike shop competitor, etc).[/quote]
I'm not sure what a reasonable priced bike should be - $2k for a carbon bike with 105 seems pretty solid to me but I don't know how possible that is. The whole "reasonable price" thing is going to vary depending on who you talk to. I'm sure there are people on here that think the new Shiv is reasonable priced (I am not one of them).

After thinking about it more I guess this probably isn't an everyday occurrence but I have been in shops before when someone comes in looking for a triathlon bike and the lowest price point they have is ~$2k. To most people just getting into the sport this seems pretty outrageous - but then again, it comes down to the mechanic/sales staff to talk them into a lower priced roadie.

I don't know, seems many brands (Fuji, Felt, Blue, Argon 18, Giant, QR) made an earnest effort to offer something in the $1200-$2000 range, but buyers serious enough to want a brand new triathlon-specific bike walked right past them to the more expensive offerings while the budget-conscious crowd bought used (plenty of participation turnover in the sport, and there's little use for a TT/triathlon bike if you're no longer competing) or just put aerobars on the road bike they already had.

~$3000 mountain bikes sell in bucket loads. ~$2500-3000 is the going MSRP range for a carbon frame, 105-level road/gravel bike with hydraulic disc brakes anymore. On the list of things turning people away from the sport, a $2900 P2 is way far down the list.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

That’s exactly what I’m saying. No shop is going well shit you can’t afford a tri bike get the hell out of here you can’t do a triathlon with a road bike.

Bikes cost money. If you can’t afford new there is always Craigslist and eBay. If you don’t know that those places exist, then it’s not a triathlon issue, that’s a you’re a moron issue.

If only there were places that people could look before buying that gave reviews and information about buying a bike used. You could ask questions and stuff to help determine what would work best. Gosh that would be a great place we should have one of those.

I don't know, seems many brands made an earnest effort to offer something in the $1200-$2000 range,

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I'm not meaning to pick on his specific post, but his reasoning is the whole issue. He is given an "cheaper" option, but for whatever reason said cheaper option isn't good enough. Like I dont think you get to complain about prices, then when give cheaper options, complain about said cheaper options.


That's what is frustrating with consumer buying imo.


ETA: You want an "cheaper" option? There are cheaper options out there, but you must change your own expectations when wanting cheaper options. That imo is the issue.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

 

I agree, just throwing out what I have seen. I was in a collegiate club for 5 years where we had a lot of trouble recruiting members simply due to the cost of getting into the sport. A bike was a big hurdle to get over but necessarily the only thing. It isn't like soccer or basketball where all you need is a pair of shoes and a ball...