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How many hours sleep do you need?
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I was watching a podcast by an ex Navy SEAL who gets about 5-6hrs / night. I would love to be able to survive on so little sleep but I need 8hrs. I can get by on 7hrs but it catches up with me. Having worked shift-work for many years, I have often had a run of days with only 5/6hrs of sleep and it never works well with training. I guess like everything, sleep is very individual but I would be interested to know how much sleep others need?

Tubs
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Tubs] [ In reply to ]
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So... is your sleep time the thumb in the air self guess or something from a sleep tracker? People who Bert their sleep times from a tracking device often have much better accuracy and lower numbers.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Tubs] [ In reply to ]
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8, minimum. In really heavy weeks or race weeks I go for 9 to really feel light and fresh.

We've somehow gotten to a place where it's a point of pride to say "look how much I can do on 5, 6, 7 hours of sleep" when they are actually saying (usually) "look, I can function at a level that doesn't classify as brain dead while sleep deprived!" I say usually because there are some that can do okay with 7-7.5 hours, but most can not.

Americans in general, and many other cultures, are chronically sleep deprived, and a small amount of research makes it clear that adding sleep makes people happier, more productive healthier, and for us: faster.

Is post some books/studies but I'm on mobile on the move, but I'm sure others will have a mountain of data that I don't even know about yet. Going from "look how will I do on 6 hours" (used to be me) to "I'm actually averaging 8 hours per night" .. hard to describe. It's like slowly waking up to your real potential.

Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Thumb in the air. I have tracked my sleep with a Fitbit and Garmin watch for a couple weeks and it tallies with my thumb in the air but I’ve never tracked sleep for more than a couple weeks, or with a high end tracker.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [MrRabbit] [ In reply to ]
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I agree. I’ve read a couple of books quoting studies on sleep and performance. (Peak performance by Magness/Stulberg). All the studies indicate that more sleep=better performance but it does seem to be a badge of honour for people to exist on little sleep.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Tubs] [ In reply to ]
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Tubs wrote:
I agree. I’ve read a couple of books quoting studies on sleep and performance. (Peak performance by Magness/Stulberg). All the studies indicate that more sleep=better performance but it does seem to be a badge of honour for people to exist on little sleep.

Peak Performance, that's the one that was on the tip of my tongue! Fantastic book with really good (and entertaining) citations.

Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Any suggestions for sleep trackers? I've been curious about my sleep stats but not sure where to begin.

Strava
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [gmh39] [ In reply to ]
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I have used Fitbit and Garmin. I think Garmin does a little better for me.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [gmh39] [ In reply to ]
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I was interested in sleep trackers a while ago and the Emfit QS looked like the best one. I would still like one but other things have taken financial priority at the moment.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Tubs] [ In reply to ]
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Tubs wrote:
Thumb in the air.
I get around 5:45-6:60 on weeknights according to my Fitbit. But Fitbit deducts around :45-:60 minutes of awake time. So, it is probably equivalent to 7:00-7:30 that most folks would self-report. I do about 8-12 hours of training with this sleep level.

Weekends I sleep bigger to catch up some.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Tubs] [ In reply to ]
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Tubs wrote:
I was watching a podcast by an ex Navy SEAL who gets about 5-6hrs / night. I would love to be able to survive on so little sleep but I need 8hrs. I can get by on 7hrs but it catches up with me. Having worked shift-work for many years, I have often had a run of days with only 5/6hrs of sleep and it never works well with training. I guess like everything, sleep is very individual but I would be interested to know how much sleep others need?

Tubs

I was kind of brought up in an anti-sleep cultural originally which I think now is horrible. I wouldn't suggest anyone get less than 8 hours personally. My own personal equation is 8 hours + 30 minutes for each hour of exercise. I think you will find a common factor in any high performance athlete is that they sleep a lot.


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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Tubs wrote:
I was watching a podcast by an ex Navy SEAL who gets about 5-6hrs / night. I would love to be able to survive on so little sleep but I need 8hrs. I can get by on 7hrs but it catches up with me. Having worked shift-work for many years, I have often had a run of days with only 5/6hrs of sleep and it never works well with training. I guess like everything, sleep is very individual but I would be interested to know how much sleep others need?

Tubs


I was kind of brought up in an anti-sleep cultural originally which I think now is horrible. I wouldn't suggest anyone get less than 8 hours personally. My own personal equation is 8 hours + 30 minutes for each hour of exercise. I think you will find a common factor in any high performance athlete is that they sleep a lot.

sounds like a reasonable equation
i would add that i find sleep quality more important than quantity (and also harder to come by when you are stressed from work, life and training)
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Tubs] [ In reply to ]
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Sleep is honestly my absolute training enhancer AND limiter. I don't have great sleep, so when I don't sleep well, it definitely restricts my hard training efforts.

I've been optimizing my sleep in my mid 40s - CPAP machine (severe apnea on sleep study), benadryl to help me stay down (or else I'm wide awake after 4-5 hrs), bruxism mouthguard (the $20 kits on Amazon outperform the $350 dentist one !), antisnoring strap to help the CPAP work optimally, and if I'm napping during the weekend, I'll even throw on a pair of noise-canceling headphone cans with white noise so my kid/dog won't interrupt my sleep (my naps are always naturally <40 mins long, usually 20 mins without alarms).

I wish I could eliminate and simplify this regimen, but every piece was hard-tested over the last 5 years, and only added after numerous attemps with and without, and I'll still go from time to time to remove one of them and then realize I do need it to optimize sleep.

I've definitely noticed amongst my 40+ year old peers, that sleep quality seems to be a hard task - half my peers definitely seem sleep deprived, some severely so. I'm definitely farrr from ideal but I've improved my sleep enough from pretty terrible (as confirmed on sleep study) to decent and sometimes very good.

It is DEFINITELY a huge part of training - I take it as seriously as the training itself now - if the sleep isn't happening, the training quality and recovery definitely will not be happening.

I like that formula 8hrs + 30mins per hr hard training, but for me it's realistically closer to 7hrs + 30 mins/hr. I try to always err on the safe side, and will literally lie in bed for 30-60 mins after I wake up, trying to put myself back to sleep until I'm sure it's no longer happening.
Last edited by: lightheir: Nov 28, 19 13:22
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Which mouth guard are you using? I’d like to try a cheap one...I’m convinced I clench my teeth when I sleep even though my dentist sees no evidence of it.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
I was kind of brought up in an anti-sleep cultural originally which I think now is horrible.

I think a lot of people have this issue. So many people see getting by with minimal sleep as a badge of honor and that sleeping 8-9 is a sign of laziness.

But lack of sleep eventually has to be paid back somehow or from somewhere. Lowered performance at work, in workouts, health issues down the line, crappy attitude towards others, etc.

Matt
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Tubs] [ In reply to ]
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Were you listening to Jocko? I think part of it is that his body clock just adapted to that over time. I wake up every day at 5:30 without an alarm because of waking up at 5:30 for 8 years of my life in Service to the Pharaoh. I truly wish I could get 8 hours every night.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Tubs] [ In reply to ]
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I track it pretty closely with both my Garmin and a Fitbit. I generally average around 7.5 hours/night and I’m basically dysfunctional on less than 6.5-7 hours. I definitely feel better when I get closer to 8 but I haven’t been able to do that consistently in years (pretty much since we had a kid!).
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [jonmhicks] [ In reply to ]
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jonmhicks wrote:
Which mouth guard are you using? I’d like to try a cheap one...I’m convinced I clench my teeth when I sleep even though my dentist sees no evidence of it.

On Amazon it's the CONFIDental.

Totally lives up to the 5 star reviews. Comes with 5 pieces bith thick and thin, and it was a cakewalk to mold it to my teeth on the first try. Material is dental grade and malleable which was way more.comfortable than my hard dentist made.$350 piece that I stopped using quickly as I hated it.

Definitely try it, you can't go wrong for $20.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Tubs] [ In reply to ]
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More than I get.

But it's better since my kids are grown up now.

Rule of thumb: if you need an alarm clock you don't get enough sleep.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, you’ve been through the mill with your sleep.
From other threads, I believe you are a Vasa owner. I am most likely going to buy one in the new year and the main reason is to help with sleep. At our local pool I can only swim at 0630 or 2000hrs. Both of which have a significant impact on sleep quantity and quality. I already have to get up 3 x /week at 0515 to take my son to swim practice, so the last thing I need is a 0545 start on all my days off as well.
Waking up at 0600 to swim in a pool vs getting up whenever I like and getting on the Vasa would be a game changer.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Tubs] [ In reply to ]
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The more, the better! Especially when training big hours (+20/week) or high intensity.
8h at least, 9h better, and a nap at midday. Sleeping well works wonders :)
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [ayax83] [ In reply to ]
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I would love to get 8 hrs average, but it always seems to be close to 6.

Even when I go to bed at 10, I end up not falling asleep till well after 11 and still wake before 6!!

I always seem to struggle to get longer sleeps, agree its very important when training. I know I don't get enough.
Last edited by: Mario S: Nov 29, 19 3:02
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Mario S] [ In reply to ]
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I average about 6 and can feel pretty good all day on that. I can’t seem to sleep more than 7 at one time. No matter how tired I am.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, it was Jocko. The fact that he wakes every day at 0430 isn't too much of an issue if you go o bed at 8pm at night. But when I searched his daily routine, he claims he goes to bed around 2300hrs each night which gives him 5.5hrs sleep. No way I could survive on so little sleep.
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Re: How many hours sleep do you need? [Tubs] [ In reply to ]
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While I agree with nearly everything said about sleep in this thread, a few things are missing.

First, some people are just good sleepers. 8 hours is ideal and many can do that night in and night out. Some can't. My wife is an amazing sleeper. She could probably sleep 10 hours every night with no problem. When she gets worn out, she can simply do 12 hours. I've been a poor sleeper all my life (spare me the how to sleep better talks, I do them all). My body wakes up around 415 every morning. As a kid it was 630. So 8 hours is almost out of the equation. 7 is average for me but I know at least one night a week it will be closer to 5.5. I have no control over this and have tried nearly everything over the years so I can't just go get 9 hours during a heavy training cycle. It doesn't happen

The second point, IMO, is that your routine is just as important as the amount of sleep you get. 8 hours from 930 - 530 is going to feel a whole lot different than 1130-730 on the body. Especially the older you get. I think that is why I function well on less sleep. I go to bed and wake up at nearly the same time every night and morning. My circadian rhythm is steady. Most people are all over the map in that regard.

All that said, I am crazy jealous of you all who can sleep in. I'd love to go on vacation and get 8-9 hours. Or simply sleep in on the weekend.
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