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How many calories are you eating?
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Been revamping my diet for the last 3 months. To throw numbers around, I'm 5' 10", 150 pounds at the moment, Male, 35 years old. I was 154 when I started paying attention and logging, which was only about 35 days ago via MyFitnessPal.

Having gone about this the wrong way, I put in my info and my goal to lose a pound a week (500 cals a day shortage), said my activity level counted as "active" as extremely active seemed not the case, and my daily number not including exercise is 2120 calories a day to achieve that goal. Then, my Garmin does the duties of my exercise calories which seem to be very accurate and consistent, and that's what I'd eat.

On my normal workout days, I'll blow through 1000-1500 calories for my exercise, so that'll put my total daily around 3600 needed. I can achieve that, and remember, technically that's with a 500 calorie deficit in there too. I'd feel pretty satisfied, that's actually a lot of food to eat.

I'm fortunate enough to work around dieticians who are on my floor at work, and bounced this around and they said I'm not eating enough. One thing lead to another and I've read up on my BMR and calculated that to be 1625 calories per day. That's what I need to lay in bed all day and just stay alive. To further complicate the equation, there's this fun little variable called your PAL (physical activity level), which is not easy to guess if you read descriptions. I have an office job, doing IT support, so I put on a lot of steps in a day, 12000 average, but I'm by no means laying bricks all day long. So, that's why I figured I counted as just "active" in my calculations.

Dieticians said that due to me being an above average working out person, that throws everything off and hence, my day to day calories, not including exercise, should be nearing 3300, not including exercise.

The reason all of this surfaced is because I've had 2 weeks of transition and wasn't riding as much, and the 2120 calories for a rest day is near impossible for me to hit, I'm starving all day long. Going to 2620 per day is closer to okay, but still not leaving me feeling normal.

Then I started pondering if for a very long time I haven't been eating enough. So I figured I'd poll the audience and see what your calorie intake is like for a day off, and under workout days, just to see how things look. Obviously, there are tons of variables, I'm just curious to see what other people are taking in for calories.

Other issue is, if I'm not eating enough, and I start eating more calories, will I gain weight until I adapt? That's what has me mildly concerned, because I do want to trim down, I'd like to be around 145 before hard training hits, so I don't have to concentrate on dieting and can focus on training and logging maintenance calories. Also, I eat a very balanced diet, lean meats, lots of fruits and veggies, good balance of everything, I think I'm just off with my quantity.

Thanks all,

10k
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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Relying on your Garmin for your calories burned is not a good choice. For running you're going be around 100 cals/mile, biking hard 600/hour (less for easy riding) and swimming 150 cals/1000 yds.

Add those counts to your daily caloric needs and target 500 cals lower.

Your 2120 seems high but not unreasonable. I'm near 142 lbs and my target is 1710, I try to net 1200 to 1400.

jaretj
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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I'd think the Garmin is reliable since it knows my power, heart rate, my physical stats, and my speed and all of that. If it matters I'm a cyclist only, my FTP is high (350 right now). Almost every online calculator for TSS and calorie burn is giving me almost identical numbers to the Garmin. That said, they could all be wrong and over estimating, which I have no way of really knowing without long term data from my scale and calorie counting.

If I do a 65 minute workout, consisting of 15 minutes of L2 warmup, then a 2 x 20 effort with my work reps at 320 watts, 5 min recovery, and 5 mins of L2 cooldown, my garmin has me just shy of 1100 calories. I know that putting out 320 watts for 40 minutes takes some fuel of course, just not sure how much.
Last edited by: 10kman: Mar 5, 15 4:23
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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You're supposed to feel "hungry" you're trying to lose weight. ;) Actually rest days are the best time to "feel hungry" as you won't bonk a workout. I'm 5'10" but older and here's what I do when I'm losing weight with a lot of cycling. On easy bike days, water on the ride only and ignore the "calories burned" and just go with your daily number minus the 500..on hard days, sports drink for the ride and use the 500/600 calorie per hour adding it to your normal day and eat up to that point. You will most likely still feel a bit hungry but not too bad since it could be around 3K mark if you do a 90 minute hard ride.

Depending on all the rest, you lose a pound or more per week and hit whatever goal weight soon and then you can just ignore everything and eat so you're not hungry assuming as you progress in the season the hard gets harder and long rides on the weekends increase in length.

Again, it's okay to feel hungry or have crap rides due to be a little low on calories as it just gets you to your weight goal faster. The key is get this stuff all out of way well before you leave the "winter/off-season/base" phase of your training.

Good luck..
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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I think you're over thinking it. When I got more serious about the sport and training/weight/etc I read the book "Racing Weight". It has a lot of great info, most is common sense but laid out clearly.

Essentially I eat when I'm hungry. Which is 3 meals a day and ~3 snacks. I don't count calories. All I do is make sure in eating healthy. Lots of veggies, fruits, lean meats, nuts, etc. I dropped from 180 to 160 pretty quickly. Maybe half a pound a week and have stayed there since. Like I said I eat when I'm hungry and eat fairly often. Even when training dropped during winter I naturally are less but still healthy and didn't gain much weight (though holiday eating is a different story!).

if you really just focus on eating healthy then you'll be fine.
Last edited by: blueapplepaste: Mar 5, 15 4:50
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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Since you didn't say you had a power meter in your OP (or I missed it) I will concede that point. At over 5 watts/Kg you must be a pretty good cyclist.

With a name like 10kman it would be easy to assume you are a runner, my bad.

jaretj
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [blueapplepaste] [ In reply to ]
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I read that book, and Optimal Muscle Recovery, and Endurance Sports Nutrition, and countless Google searches leading to article after article.

I can say for sure, I'm not just eating because the clock says to, I eat when I'm hungry, luckily that's not something I've had to battle.

I think in the game of trying to lose weight, safely and steadily, it is a game of numbers and data that's why I am counting and calculating. Being 150 pounds at my height already is considered lean, trying to tune that is going to come down to numbers to stay fueled and also keep workouts producing results.
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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I weigh 220 lbs currently and mffitnesspal allows me 1500calories a day for a 2lb per week weight loss. I add to this the calories my watch says. (I have power meter on bike and believe my running calories are way to high)
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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I've been doing the diet tracker thing on and off for a couple years. I find I do best when I set a target where I am not all that hungry on my rest days but it takes some work to not go over my target and then on my workout days, I don't have too much trouble hitting my target. Basically, I try to aim for a sweet spot where its much more about food choice than starving myself. For me, that leads to better long term results. My sweet spot is about a pound a week. Any more than that I tend to have trouble and any less than that, I feel like the margin of error is such that I might go long stretches without losing anything. For me, that works out to not really being all that hungry once I get past the first month and get "into the grove." I know I am mentally on track when the crappy junk food I normally love starts to be repulsive ;-)

I do find that if I consistently go under my target, after several days I really start to feel like crap. I'm both hungry and my workouts suffer. So, once I get into the grove I find I have as many days where I am trying to increase my calories to hit my target as I do days where I am struggling to stay under it. While I do not do "makeup" calories if I am low on one particular day, do I really try to make sure I hit my target day to day over time.

Of course, I am going after easy pickings on fat loss. I have not ever really gotten to the point where I am truly trying to lose that last 1-2% to get super thin. My guess is it gets a lot harder at that point both because the margin of error on inputs and outputs becomes much more of a factor and also that is where you really start to fight your body's natural tendency to hold a minimum amount of body fat.
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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I doubt this is correct if you weigh 150 lbs. I weigh 220 and my Garmin won't even make it to 1000 cal/hr during a half iron on the bike.

75 minutes at 80% FTP barely breaks 1000.

________________________________________
Check out my sad excuse for a blog:
http://brianstriblog.blogspot.com/
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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I think there are just too many factors to try and come up with a reliable number you should stick to day in and day out. If you have lost 4 pounds in 35 days, then I'd say whatever you are doing is working quite well as I'd consider that manageable amount of loss for the time frame. Further, if you have lost those 4 pounds in that time, I don't think adding more calories makes too much sense (assuming you are burning the same amount of calories per day/week).

I'm 143 pounds currently and trying to get down to 138 for some of the hilly races in May/June (I'm a cyclist only too). For me to lose 1/2 to 3/4 pound per week, I've been consuming approx. 2,500 calories. I'm only able to ride 9 hours per week, so that needs to be taken into consideration. This seems to be working for me.

Being fit with a high FTP like you have at a low weight, is certainly a lot easier in my opinion to lose weight or maintain weight. You burn more calories per hour and therefore get to eat more! This is the rich stay rich theory!

I'd say if you are losing 1/2 to one pound per week already, then just do what you are doing and make minor tweaks in either direction.

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Re: How many calories are you eating? [elecengrman] [ In reply to ]
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elecengrman wrote:
I doubt this is correct if you weigh 150 lbs. I weigh 220 and my Garmin won't even make it to 1000 cal/hr during a half iron on the bike.

75 minutes at 80% FTP barely breaks 1000.

That's because he is waaay fitter than you. It's just math, don't take it personally.

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Re: How many calories are you eating? [Bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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So what I noticed was that when I was lower volume, and thus lower calories, I felt terrible. My hunch was that the possibly too low of a day to day number is more exaggerated on my lower volume days, and when I'm high volume and eating way more, it would take longer to get me to the same depleted feeling. Wasn't sure.

I'm equating this to building a bike. You know that certain things are lighter than others, so you go that route. Then you decide to set a target for 14 pounds, so now you get a scale and start weighing things for real. I feel I'm at the point that I'm weighing the parts to trim down where I can, but don't want to go too light so the parts don't break.
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [elecengrman] [ In reply to ]
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Mathematically:

80% of 350 watts is 280 watts

280 watts for 2.5 hours is 2520000 joules or ~2500 calories for a HIM ride with that amount of power
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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10kman wrote:
So what I noticed was that when I was lower volume, and thus lower calories, I felt terrible. My hunch was that the possibly too low of a day to day number is more exaggerated on my lower volume days, and when I'm high volume and eating way more, it would take longer to get me to the same depleted feeling. Wasn't sure.

I'm equating this to building a bike. You know that certain things are lighter than others, so you go that route. Then you decide to set a target for 14 pounds, so now you get a scale and start weighing things for real. I feel I'm at the point that I'm weighing the parts to trim down where I can, but don't want to go too light so the parts don't break.

I feel the same way with the lower volume - I simply just don't get to eat enough to feel satisfied. I think it's super hard to eat less than 2,500 calories per day even with no exercise. I think we all expect a minimum amount of volume of food during the day - higher hours (and high watts) makes this much easier.

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Re: How many calories are you eating? [Triagain2(FTDA)] [ In reply to ]
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Triagain2(FTDA) wrote:
I weigh 220 lbs currently and mffitnesspal allows me 1500calories a day for a 2lb per week weight loss. I add to this the calories my watch says. (I have power meter on bike and believe my running calories are way to high)

I would not try to lose > 1 pound a week while doing any degree of physical trainining.. I know you see a lot to lose, but you need patience for weight loss to stick. I think my best weight loss streaks have been close to .5 pound a week, but lasted for many months.
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [TunaBoo] [ In reply to ]
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I just went through a year of significant weight gain... I have a lot to loose and will pay very close to my body etc and training metrics to ensure I am still doing this healthy.
I think the first 20lbs will likely fall off.
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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This thread is a few years old, but had some good stuff (I remember because I contributed a bit):

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=3821023#3821023


My experience was playing around with a variant of the "Hacker's Diet" methodology. The key part of that is essentially having a feedback loop. You do your best to measure ins/outs and then track weight on the scale (using a moving average!). You then adjust the ins/outs to achieve the desired result. The adjustment process requires a bit of patience since it can take a couple weeks to see the weight trend across day to day fluctuations, but I found I was able to dial it in pretty well.
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with what jbank said above.

I have 1900 as my target, I'm 5'10 and 160 pounds. On a rest day I struggle to hit it and go over. On a ride day it's easy to be under after burning about 2000kcal. The key is to weigh yourself everyday to build up a running average weight as it can vary from day to day. Just adjust the calorie target according to how your weight loss is going. I would say 4 pounds over 35 days is good progress. Lose too much too quickly and you'll risk losing power too.

http://www.thedeludedcyclist.wordpress.com
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [deludedcyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Wow! 10kman, you're damn fit. I'm 20 years older, 7 pounds lighter and nowhere near your power #'s, so nice going! My .02, you're on track. Getting used to feeling hungry is for me a good feeling yet when I'm seeing stars aka faint, not so good.
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [RK250] [ In reply to ]
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My power numbers have always been pretty high, what I'm trying to do is train my sustainability at the high numbers. Also, realizing there's only so much you can get your body to do, that's where the weight loss comes in to play.
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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That 1625 for BMR sounds low- maybe for a total sedentary day.
You need to factor in everything else that you do (non-exercise).
I am slightly smaller than yourself (and older).
I know that I need around 2185 calories (2400 on a gym day) before I factor in my cycling.
I don't need to lose weight so I take these numbers and then add kj from cycling- this gets me pretty close.
In the past I have had issues with under-eating. When you do this there is either no drop in performance (for a while) or so gradual you do not notice.
At some point in time the bottom can drop out.
Way better to figure out healthy eating- make sure your efforts are fueled and you recover properly. Make sure weight loss is fat (unless you are so muscular that the muscle is holding you back).
Make sure blood values and hormone levels remain where they need to be.
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
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I eat really well I think. Here's my day so far -

Breakfast was an egg white only casserole made with potatoes and 2 ounces of Asiago. I divide the whole dish into 5 portions for the week, and I tally up the total ingredients when I make things. That, plus I had a half cup of almonds for fat and substance, totalled me 752 calories for breakfast. Felt okay, had some water while eating slowly.

Just had a lunch/snack, was 3/4 cup of dry oatmeal (then mixed with water), a Fugi apple, and 2 tablespoons of peanut butter. Calories were just under 500. Again, drank water and ate at a slow pace.

Will have banana with 1 cup of plain greek yogurt most likely in mid afternoon just before I leave work, and a plum, so call that 300 calories but that's a little under.

So my advanced math has me at 1552 when I leave for home and hit the bike. That leaves about 900 to go, assuming I don't ride, which isn't the case. I've found that 2120 is not sustainable, so I've gone to 2450 as a baseline not including exercise.

Dinner is leftover chicken, roasted turnips with green beans and mushrooms. Last night the total dinner was about 700 calories. I was short at the end of the day so had a 12 ounce glass of milk with a scoop of chocolate protein powder. I was still short calories so had some trail mix. Stopped eating with about 200 calories that I could have eaten but was just eating to fill numbers, which seemed wrong, so just called it a day.

I don't eat poorly at all, there's not really anything in my day for today that someone would say, oh you shouldn't have eaten that. If I had a 800 calorie breakfast of chocolate munchkins, then sure, that's not the best.

And regarding the BMR number, remember that's a lay in bed all day and not move number. That's where had an issue trying to determine my PAL number, which is what factors in your daily activities. If you go off of the fact that I walk 6+ miles a day, and I walk fast too, that's calories, not counting normal life functions and all of the carrying and lugging of equipment I do. Again, not a brick layer, but I'm not sedentary by any means.
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like you are on the right track.,
Another thing that I have discovered (with under-eating) is that if I eat too many raw vegetables when I need lots of calories it is a bad thing.
Fills me up too much to eat as many crabs as I need.
I am way better off with some cooked greens or a few cut up vegetables than with a huge salad.
But it depends on the individual.
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Re: How many calories are you eating? [masterslacker] [ In reply to ]
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masterslacker wrote:
Again, it's okay to feel hungry or have crap rides due to be a little low on calories as it just gets you to your weight goal faster. The key is get this stuff all out of way well before you leave the "winter/off-season/base" phase of your training.

Good luck..

This is an important point. I spent all summer last year simultaneously carefully tracking a calorie deficit while putting in big miles for a fall marathon. I hit my goal weight 3 weeks before the marathon but I was feeling flat and ultimately failed to even come close to my goal time for the race.

I have maintained that weight, fortunately, for the past 4 months, but if I had to cut weight again I would make sure to do it during the winter off-season when you can afford to feel a bit flat after your workouts.
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