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How long do overtraining symptoms last?
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My second post on this subject, looking this time for insight on how long it might last. Short version: about 3 weeks back, during the hardest phase of the Build period toward my A race, I trained myself off a metaphorical cliff. It came on FAST. I took a full week off in a complete haze of fatigue. Came back with light training for one week, thought I was all better, hit it hard (like an idiot) for 3 days in a row. I was thrilled to find that I hadn't lost too much fitness but then BAM fell back into the fatigue pit. I've clearly blown the training cycle toward that A race, and I'm now suspecting I should go clear back to early base-building-type workouts, mainly because intensity seems to be the thing I can't handle, can't recover from. Super strange experience: feels mostly brain/neurotransmitter/hormonal, related to recovery, not at all muscular, or glycogen-related. A month ago, I was binging on intensity, in the best shape of my life. Now I feel as though a single hard session, with intensity, could put me in bed for a day, with this weird fatigue.

Insight? Wisdom? If you've been there, how did you crawl back out? How long did it take?
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [Daniel Duane] [ In reply to ]
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Been there.

First some corroboration(speaking about my own experience, not claiming to be an expert on overtraining in general) -

1) Yes, it comes on fast.
2) Yes, it's intensity related.


Advice:

1) Don't take time completely off. Keep working out. Just keep everything well below threshold intensity.
2) Don't be an idiot (referring to your own use of that term). Monitor your time at threshold intensity and above. For me, what does damage is stuff significantly above threshold intensity. Budget that stuff carefully. Don't seek to "win" every workout if you work out with strong people. Just choose your times to "bring it" and quiet your ego the rest of the time. I only let myself completely unleash maximal intensity once per week (per discipline).
3) Overtraining can also be called undertraining. Your body may be able to ultimately handle the load, you just haven't adapted your physiology to the workload through prior training. Build to it. Small increases per week.
4) It can take weeks-to-months to recover. A couple times I put myself in the "months" category. Now I can recognize an "overreach" and recover in a week.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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man, thank you for this reply! I think I'm in the "weeks" category, but I'm also getting the feeling I could make it months if I'm not careful. I've been trying to research this on google scholar--sort of amazing how poorly understood it really is. Just in terms of what's going on physiologically.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [Daniel Duane] [ In reply to ]
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I went down like a ton of bricks on Sunday night. Ran a 14 and went into swim squad...on exiting the pool afterwards I almost collapsed on the grass. Worked out my calories later and it looked like I was around 2000 under for the day, although the previous week will have contributed too. Had a full day of rest yesterday feeling awful all day, hit the sack last night and today I feel totally good again.

I've been very bad at taking the "listen to your body" advice until now, but it works. Hope you feel better. You'll not lose much fitness with a couple days to recharge.

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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [Daniel Duane] [ In reply to ]
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Glad you threw that out there. I've got the same thing going on . Same feelings through my head.

Disco
South Bend, IN

Habitual Line Stepper..
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [Daniel Duane] [ In reply to ]
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Overtraining is one of the best parts of the sport. Yeah, you kick yourself-
but you also get to say... "if I had only taken it easier... I could have been faster"

volume >> intensity

How would you know your limits- unless you exceed them from time to time.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [morey000] [ In reply to ]
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....funny, my coach said essentially the same thing (about not knowing where the edge was until you fell off).

i 'let him go' at the end of that conversation.

It took me close to three months to get back to full health, but from what i've read, it can vary from person to person, depending on a number of factors, not least of which being how deep a hole you dug yourself. Check out Clas Bjorling's old blog posts that can be accessed thru Gordo's archives (sorry, but i don't have the link for you; i'll dig around and PM it to you when i find it).

It can be helpful to get some bloodwork (check your cortisol levels among other things), especially if you have baseline ones from when you were humming along.

What worked for me was basically aerobic-only training, lots of rest, and yoga; definitely be cautious about 'testing' your fitness (as your system recovers, you'll be able to crank out a decent result, but ultimately you'll set yourself back. i experienced a lot of three steps forward, two steps back...).

Good luck.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [Daniel Duane] [ In reply to ]
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I was in a very similar situation back in mid-October after my last race of the season. After the race I felt fatigued all the time and it was extremely difficult to get through "easy" workouts, and just to carry on normal day to day activities. I noticed it the most when I was running. I got some bloodwork done and there were a few things out of whack (low RBC, WBC, hemoglobin, bood sugar, testosterone etc...). I stopped running and cycling after that and swam to stay sane. I did not focus on time just more on form and trying to have some fun. It took me until late January until I could feel normal running again and normal in everyday life. It was a hard lesson learned especially when you feel invincible in races and training. My case was pretty extreme but now I know that there is a very fine line between optimal training and overtraining.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [Daniel Duane] [ In reply to ]
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I was there years ago, really fatigued, sick a lot. It wasn't just training, I also had a new job and was a new father. I ended up taking about six months off completely, then slowly built back up.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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Lazysurfer,
Doing a search on overtraining and thought i would check with you to see how thinks went. I am at 11 weeks off training and rode yesterday and HR was still way too high for a L1 ride. Guess it takes time.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [slalomdude] [ In reply to ]
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Hoping people who have overcome this will start joining in on the conversation. I'm dealing with this myself for the first time. It fucking sucks.

I had literally 0 symptoms and then boom.. moody, huge decline in performance, tired, no motivation, starting to hate the sport and now I'm 15 weeks from IM-Cozumel. Can't really call it a season when I've dropped so much $$$ to race.

I feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel and yes, it requires backing off on intensity quite drastically (to the point of 0 high intensity and turning cardio into recovery on some workouts). The biggest problem I'm facing is the amount of food I'm eating. It's all day non stop calorie intake and still losing weight. I'm at 159 and fighting weight is roughly 157 (155 if I'm really trying). With so much time until the race, I just don't know how to handle. I'm trying to convince myself that gaining 5 pounds and starting my block from scratch is a good thing; I could lose all my fitness and still peak in December... which is where I'm heading it seems. Hopefully this isn't the most ass backwards way of thinking...

Advice please... any and all (from those who have witnessed and been affected; please don't throw info my way if you "think" you know what you're talking about)
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [radelj44] [ In reply to ]
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I've done this a few times now and currently sitting in the worst shape. The couple other times I did it it took several weeks to bounce back, but can't remember an exact time frame. This time is worse.

Started training very hard last September for a few itu/draft legals in march, things were going very well until my swim started getting slower towards January. Kept pushing seeing my run and bike get better but my swim never improved.

Sucked a bag of dicks for the races, took a bit of time off, thought I was better, did three weeks of training and boom fucked up again. It's been just over two months with almost no training. I'll go out for an easy ride or something every once in awhile but I just can't get my heart rate up. It's like I can't rev the engine.

I'm now at about two weeks totally off and trying to find things to keep busy (thank god football is starting this week). Anyways might try three weeks at nothing and see if I can work up really slow.

Just wanted to put my experience out there, hope you recover quick!
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [radelj44] [ In reply to ]
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Well i cant say i had zero symptoms, they were there i was just ignorant or chose to ignore them. I had very low T, woke up in middle of night, jumpy limbs when falling asleep, heavy heartbeat etc. I started L5/L6 intervals, and after 3 weeks of that i crashed big time. No power and high heart rate. Few days later ended up inurgent care with chest pains. All tests were normal but still could ride easy without high HR. Have tried several rides, but same outcome.
The only thing that was abnormal was 24hr cortisol test that came back low in day and high at night. Just taking extra supplements and waiting. Hopefully i will get back to normal, but at moment not much light at the end of tunnel.
You are right, it sucks. Hang in there man.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [lazysurfer] [ In reply to ]
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lazysurfer wrote:
A month ago, I was binging on intensity, in the best shape of my life. Now I feel as though a single hard session, with intensity, could put me in bed for a day, with this weird fatigue.
So much for the "best shape" of oyur life.

Perhaps you could look for a training plan that does not focus on intensity. More LSD less HITs.

Might even be time to pay a coach.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [An Old Guy] [ In reply to ]
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [slalomdude] [ In reply to ]
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Just in case you have not come across this "Consensus Paper" in your research:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23247672

slalomdude wrote:
Lazysurfer,
Doing a search on overtraining and thought i would check with you to see how thinks went. I am at 11 weeks off training and rode yesterday and HR was still way too high for a L1 ride. Guess it takes time.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [radelj44] [ In reply to ]
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I had a pretty significant bout of overtraining in cycling. Virtually no serious intensity for a couple of months. Didn't matter, still fried myself from sheer volume alone.

I went from a 15-20 hour week training average in the prior season to a 21-23-25-21, 23-25-27-23, 25-27-29-25 hour three month base. Halfway through that final 29 hour week I cracked so hard that I curled up in a ditch 5 miles from home and called my mom to come pick me up. That was about the beginning of the end.

I gained 8 lbs and my riding was destroyed. I would get dropped on little hills by Cat 3s and 4s where I used to drop nearly everyone. I couldn't recover, I couldn't ride fast or hard. My sleep wasn't good. I was always, always tired and a bit depressed and just not enjoying anything.

A few months later and I'd taken a whole week off (gasp!) and reduced the rest of my training but still couldn't ride well. And when I say well, I mean I was getting dropped everywhere and not even finishing some local races. I started having lots of muscular problems in my legs and barely rode that summer. Started up again in Fall still feeling awful. Took another break. Finally once winter rolled around I got back to normal training and by next season I was able to race halfway decently again.

But this was a 9-10 month ordeal. When I got back to form things had changed a bit. I was still 5-6 lbs heavier and my heart rate had dropped about 10 beats across the board. I also had little motivation or enjoyment. I quit after the next season.

Suffice to say, it was hellacious.mentally and physically. It's every bit as bad as anyone could ever describe it. And worse.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [lazysurfer] [ In reply to ]
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Point of order: if you can come back after a few weeks of rest you've "overreached" not overtrained. Overreaching is basically a less serious, more temporary version of overtraining. If it takes longer than a few weeks to recover, you're overtrained.

Unlike others here, I would recommend backing of entirely. A few years ago I trained myself into the ground and by the time I realised what I'd done, I really couldn't even get through easy workouts. However, I had races planned and would force myself out there prematurely. I had shit-house workouts that did nothing for my fitness and only served to prolong my recovery. For me, recovery took 2-3 months.

Personally, take two weeks off completely. No easy training. Nothing, zip, nada, save for maybe a trip to the pool where you focus on form. Listen to your body and monitor your heartbeat first thing in the morning. If your heartbeat is elevated just after waking up, it's a good sign you need to take it easy. Monitor your mood: there's good correlation between depression / anxiety and overtraining. Only return when you feel like that lingering fatigue is gone and you actually _want_ to get back into training, not the usual "I have to train because my competition is out there getting stronger" type motivation. Pushing it early is only going bury you further into that hole.

While you are sitting around recovering, read this (long) series on overtraining and overreaching. It starts here: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/...the-rest-part-1.html (no, I'm not a shill for Body Recomposition, but there is some seriously good info on that website). Read the whole thing. It's long, yes, but informative and (towards the end) eminently practical.

Here's the money quote:

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What to Do if You Overtrain
Rest.
Seriously, that’s it, that’s the exciting conclusion to this series. If you’ve screwed up and trained too hard for too long with inadequate recovery and dug yourself in, the solution is rest and recovery for as long as needed to get out of the hole. It might be weeks, or months or longer depending on how deep a hole you dug. But you must rest.
And nobody can say up front how long it will take. It doesn’t really matter. You rest and recover until you’re rested and recovered. You can’t force the process and all you can do is be patient and let it happen. But now you wonder, what should you be doing during that rest period.
It’s would be ideal to start with 5-7 days completely off from training. Brisk walking tops during that time period and nothing more intense. Just go rest and sleep and eat and recover. Get some massage if you can afford it, at least foam roll. Epsom salt baths, relaxation, the stretching you’ve been skipping the last months. Watch your nutrition. Whatever you need to start the recovery process, now is the time to kick-start it and a full 5-7 days totally off will do that.


Good luck.




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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [needmoreair] [ In reply to ]
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needmoreair wrote:
I had a pretty significant bout of overtraining in cycling. Virtually no serious intensity for a couple of months. Didn't matter, still fried myself from sheer volume alone.

Preach it brother! Back when I was a pure runner, I decided I needed to seriously increase milage during my base period. Dug myself in so deep my season was completely ruined before I even had it planned out.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [slalomdude] [ In reply to ]
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Hey, thanks for asking. My bout with overtraining was long and heavy--5-6 months before I could train properly at all, near-constant fatigue, lethargy, sleepiness, endless reading about the subject, trying to figure out what the hell was really going on. As all you guys know, it is a downright freaky experience, from a physiological standpoint. It all started around Easter, 2012, when I was self-training for my second Escape From Alcatraz. Multiple rookie mistakes (no easy days, no easy weeks, ignoring the warning signs) pushed me right off a cliff, and once I was off, I was cooked, didn't even show up for Escape 2012. But I got a slot for this year's Escape and started training for it slow and steady last November (the race was scheduled for March this year, due to America's Cup claims to the Bay). The good news: I made it to the start line in reasonably good shape. The bad news: I still wasn't 100%, and did not P.R. I got a slot for Vineman 70.3 this year, too (mid-July), and while training for that event I nearly blew it again, had to recalibrate toward a very low-ambition, git-'er-done training plan (Gale Bernhardt's 13-weeks to a Half). That race went well in that I finished (first time at that distance), MOP with dignity, no walking, etc ... but I still don't feel that I've come all the way back to peak performance. It's always hard to know what's physiological, what's psychological ("Am I just begin a wuss?"), and where the two overlap. Lots to learn, too, about one's own physiology: some of us tolerate intensity better than others; some of us do better with LSD-style training. I'm sure I'd do much better with a coach--I had one a few years ago, for my first Escape, and performed well (for me). But coaching is a little above my pay grade and I also love the learning journey of self-coaching; I enjoy reading all the training books, tweaking my plans, learning from mistakes. So, there it is ... still crawling back, still loving the sport, still somewhat scarred by that overtraining experience, deeply convinced of the value of easy days, easy weeks ...
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [lazysurfer] [ In reply to ]
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Cool, it's great that you have been able to return to the sport and compete. It's hard for me to see any light at the end of the tunnel, but I will take inspiration from your journey.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [slalomdude] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, hang in there slalomdude. It goes away; the old self comes back. It just takes a remarkably long time, depending on how far down you are (feel to free to share your own details, if you think it might help). I found the whole experience astonishing. I'd read all the warnings about overtraining, in all the books (Friel, etc), but had no clue how awful it could be until I was there.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [lazysurfer] [ In reply to ]
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lazysurfer wrote:
But coaching is a little above my pay grade and I also love the learning journey of self-coaching; I enjoy reading all the training books, tweaking my plans, learning from mistakes. So, there it is ...

One problem with self-coaching is that there is noone to say take it easier.

A second problem is that one tends to take from all the training plans, mix them together, and wind up with a plan that is not good.

A third problem is taking training too seriously.

A fourt problem is that

But if you are happy to beat yourself into a hole, all the more power to you.
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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [lazysurfer] [ In reply to ]
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Id Use same rule of guidance as with regular stress, it will take you as long time to get out of it, as it took you to get into it.

Overtraining is a serious matter don't take it too lightly, and don't dig your hole deeper.

My site: http://www.idpoet.me

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Re: How long do overtraining symptoms last? [Malikules] [ In reply to ]
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Lazy surfer, was any of your bloodwork out of wack, did you ever check 24 hr saliva cortisol. What supplements did you use and do you think any really helped you. Doctors do not seem to understand the issues, the best mine could come up with is fibromyalgia.
I work rotating shifts including nights, so I know that does not help.
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