I wouldn't pay the $400 they are charging now. Of course I don't currently race longer than 1/2 IM, plus I have a preference of low key events.

OT: You heading to Rivercities, sig?

dave judice

$400 is too high for me. There's so many other expenses associated with going to a race (and racing in general) that I just can't justify it to myself. This is especially true since there are alternatives.

I've only done one IMNA event and I had no trouble paying $400 for it and have signed up for the same race again next year. I enjoyed the experience and feel that I got more than my moneys worth.

I'm not sure how high I would be willing to pay, but I'd probably pay any of the amounts that you listed if I really wanted to do a particular race. Maybe my opinion will change as the novelty of the Ironman experience wears off for me, but I don't really consider the entry fee to be a big barrier. It's the cheapest part of my race, it's a once/year indulgence, so I just pay it and go enjoy myself.

As I've said before, I hope IMNA does well and demonstrates success to the corporate world. If so, I suspect that other promoters, sponsors, etc. will jump on the bandwagon and will pump more money into our sport, leading to more races(at all distances), which will eventually cause competition to develop amongst the race promoters. In the end I think we would all win, we'd have a lot of races to choose from, the entry fees would probably come down and as someone pointed out on another thread, maybe some pros could actually make a living.

Yeah, $400 is expensive, but, as already stated, probably lower than market price based on the fact that it sold out in 48 hours.

I think IMNA puts on a great race. I've only done IMUSA and IMC (also the California Half IM), but from those two experiences, I'd say the following:

Race locations are selected with care to not only include a great race course, but to foster a unique atmosphere. Local support in both Lake Placid and Penticton was phenominal.

The small town feel allows IMNA to take the positive vibe associated with the race and run with it - the race village, participants in a small area, positive local support - all leads to a wonderful, positive feeling surrounding the race.

Organization is excellent. I get the feeling that these guys know how to put on a race. Vineman is a popular race in this area (I've only done the half, not full Vineman) and I don't think the race organization holds a candle to IMNA. The full Vineman is a local option for a non-IMNA-IM-distance race, but I have never considered it because I was unimpressed with the half. I want seemless organization for a 140.6 mile race.

Back to the $$ - I imagine the insurance alone costs more than $100 per person. I'd imagine there's a significant amount of liability involved. Also, and maybe this is just California, but I considered signing up for the San Francisco marathon just so that I could have a supported long run while training for IMC, but quickly reconsidered when I found out it would cost me $70 - and that was for the half marathon (I was going to run the rest unsupported). I marathon course can support significantly more participants than a triathlon - even a small marathon is over twice as large as any IM - and I can't imagine it costs nearly as much to put on. $400 for IM vs. $70 for a half marathon? Hmmm ...

I think you'll see Kona go up soon. Logically, if people are spending $2000-$3000 to go to the race, more if they bring their families, then charging $1,000 for this once in a lifetime experience isn't too bad. If you actually qualified for Kona, then that team you belong to in order to save $40 on your wetsuit should toss in a few bucks to help defray your racing costs.

I do think that it is unreasonable, but I believe that for a lot of people, like myself, who are not in California, then our choices are limited. I live in Boston. If I want to do an Iron distance race, I can either do Lake Placid, or I can fly somewhere, which will cost even more, and involve shipping all my gear.(I know, someone mentioned a race in Montreal, but I hadn't heard of that before. And I'm still new to all this, so shipping everything seems like more of a pain than it might actually be. But I'd probably be end up in jail if someone lost my bike.)

As long as there are fewer race slots than willing participants, you will see the races sell out and the prices go up.

For my money, I'd like to see a lot more local Oly or int'l distance races, instead of sprints every weekend. Sprints just aren't long enough to justify the travel and setup time.

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A friend here in California and I figured out all the costs involved in traveling to IM LP and IM NZ (from NorCal). We could do a week in NZ CHEAPER, all costs considered, than a week in Placid. That's taking the hotel price gouging and 5 day (or more) minimums into consideration, which I've heard has also happened in Idaho, Wisconsin and Penticton.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

"Back to the $$ - I imagine the insurance alone costs more than $100 per person."

The last I heard the cost of insurance for a USAT race was only $250 total for the whole event. USAT may charge a little more bit more for IMNA events, but I don't think it is anywhere near $100/person. I think the total cost of an IM distance event is probably around $200/person, assuming you have 300+ participants and can get some economics of scale.

Personally, I'd be interested in an underground IM where the swim is in a local lake and the race completely unsupported. That's kind of how IM started all those years ago and I think we need to go back to it.

Actually, I think participants should provide their OWN support, which may be what you mean. And, yes, I wholeheartedly agree that the Ironman has morphed into something only remotely similar to the original.

Here's a thought:

1. No wetsuits;

2. No aerobars;

3. No pre-packed gels, goos, or litter magnets;

4. Support yourself;

5. Get drunk and party after the race with the 9 other people in the U.S. who would do it! :)

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

1. I've done 3 IMNA events (Canada, Florida and USA LP) and I have no problem at all paying the entry fees. I want a oirganized, memorable and safe event and GF and his IMNA crew do an excellent job at delivering. These events are uneblievably complex to set-up and run. To be honest, I seriously doubt 90% of those who complain about the prices would be able to deal with the planning, licensing, insurance, logistics, printing, ordering, supplies, volunteers, food, hydration, etc., etc., etc., for $400 per head. Sure, its not cheap - but I believe it is well worth the memories these events have provided me.

2. I think IMNA should increase the number of Community Fund entries. This is a fantastic idea that gives back to the local communities. Likewise, somehow IMNA should tie-into the Janus Charity callenge - i.e. reserve 100 entries for participants who raise a minimum amount for the charities of their choice. Again, a great tie-in between Ironman races and good causes.

3. IMNA is not alone - I have entered two international Ironmans and the prices are very close if not the same as IMNA events. And while the one I actually ended up doing was very well done - it wasn't as well done as IMNA events (although the free beer at the end was nice).

4. For a "general" sanctioned IMNA full Ironman event? $500-$750 would be approaching the upper limits and would cut down on the number I enter. If I QUALIFIED for Kona? I probably couldn't sign my name fast enough to a $1000 to $1500 check (note: I'm not talking about buying a spot on eBay).

Alan

Oops. Meant to post this in the LP closed thread. Not sure how I mixed it up ...

I've only done last weekend's IM LP, but I find it hard to imagine wanting to stay less than 5 days. We arrived late on Wednesday for Sunday's race and drove home the following Wednesday. We have already rented a house to do the same thing again next year. Certainly an enjoyable part of the experience for me were the practice swims, the expo, socializing, even cleaning our bike chains before the race. I was also in no condition to want to travel anywhere Monday or Tuesday after the race.

If we both had enough vacation time, I would definitely want to spend a full week before and a full week after the race in LP. Sure the race itself is a very fun highlight, and the restaurants could be better, but the total experience is part of the fun.

--Bill Voss

that the original race was "completely unsupported". I believe JC actually got some sort of permit from the city and I think Judy was keeping track of everyone sort of. JC also had a silk screen made so we could make our own tee shirts and he did the trophies. Each of us paid $3 I think to help defray expenses AND we provided our own support! The ratio of volunteers to athletes is a lot less now than it was then, even though they have 4000 volunteers now.

This was only possible because it was so small. Similar to Dev's EpicMan training day. Nothing says you can't do it on your own, just no one really cares.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

There are some inexpensive places in the Lake Placid if you are willing to stay a few miles out of town. I just made reservations for a dorm room at a local community college 10 miles away. $60 bucks a night for two adults is not much more than a Motel 6. Sure it's not luxurious, but it's a clean, dry place to sleep.

$36 for 4 nights.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

No doubt it could be done for cheaper. However, I wanted to sleep in a controlled environment with an ample supply of hot water.

Which reminds me of when we camped at a KOA at Yellowstone... $50 bucks for one night! For a 10' block of grass wedged among hundreds of other 10' blocks...

[reply]Please try to be totally honest. How much would those of you who do full IMNA races pay for the continental races? Will $500, $600, $750, $1000 turn you away? Would you pay $1000 if you qualified for Kona?

Bob Sigerson[/reply][reply]

Only one person, Alan, out of the ll,500 people who have signed up for IMNA full races this year answered the question posed. Will no one who does these races put an upper limit they will spend to enter them?

Bob Sigerson

the KOA at Whiteface mtn was really nice and there were lots of triathletes there (and lots of empty spaces). It isn't for everyone but lodging doesn't have to be expensive, even for a family.

Having 4000 people catering to your every whim for an entire day (except for a sedan chair on the run) has to be worth something.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

>>No doubt it could be done for cheaper<<

That wasn't my point. My point is that for the same level of amenities/accomodations/etc. and time period, NZ was cheaper than LP.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I shelled out $800 for an IMC community spot so I guess that is about how high I'd go.

bob. 400 is very close to my limit. with 4 bills i can rationalize to myself that it works out to a buck a day, or coffee money or something.

even a little more, at 500 would cause me to reference the sum in terms of 0.5 THOUSAND DOLLARS, and it just gets silly to me. not only that, but my wife races too. anything resembling a thousand dollars as a one day entry fee had best invove me at the wheel of a F-1 automobile with a hospitality tent full of umbrella girls nearby. i like the job IMNA does just fine but they have a ways to go in the umbrella girls alone, for example.

by contrast, and as tip of the " i don't need no stinking hoopla" hat to cathy morgan - i can do a series of 8, 12 hour mt bike races within a couple hours here, at a cost of 25 bucks apiece. these events have a borrowed high scool clock and a starting line dug in the dirt with the heel of a shoe. BYO- fuel, and everything else. needless to say they do not have a jumbotron - but they DO have sweet singletrack lovingly scratched from the earth inch by inch by hand and sweat of guys that do it for love not money. the fella's at the endurance mt bike races like to fall off their steeds when i tell them how much IM's cost. they literally do not believe me.

"Will no one who does these races put an upper limit they will spend to enter them? "

Okay, my limit is about $300. That means I will do races like Great Floridian and Duke Blue Devil, but not a WTC race. Since I will never qualify for IMH at these races, and since I'm not entering the lottery, the issue of how much I would pay for IMH is not applicable.

$200 for an IM Florida, perhaps $300 or a little more for an exotic IM locale. With the IMNA prices what they are now, I suggest folks start looking at alternatives and not just in triathlons. There's a world of exciting, challenging events that cost half of an official IM and in my opinion are far more fun, addictive, social and challenging. Try ultra-running, endurance mountain biking, an off-road ironman, or adventure racing for starters. Mix it up.

I never did NZ - so I won't claim to be able to do a comparison, but as for other IMNA races vs. non-IMNA Iron races, I would argue that IMNA is still an equal deal. It cost me about the same to do IM USA LP as it did IM Austria. Granted, Klagenfurt is an unbelievable location, Lake Placid is equally (if not a diffrent type) of beauty. Planes fares to the east coast and to Europe (if you shop right) are really not dramatically different...with Eurpoe of course being higher. Hotels are about the same, with Europe being slightly lower. Food, etc. about equal depending upon Euro/$ exchange. Entry fees - about the same. The entry fee for IM Japan was the same as for IM USA and travel much higher. So, again, I will point out that IMNA is not alone in the high price Iron-distance events. Basically, you get what you pay for. You want the best, most organized, best supported race - IMNA offers that. You want to save a few bucks, certainly look at at the CaliforniaMan, Blue Devil, etc. Similar, here in SF area, you can do Tri-California's Escape From Alcatraz - a world-class affair at $20+...or you can do Envirosports' Alcatraz the Ultimate Escape for less. TriCalifornia's is definitely the higher profile, better supported event with the "name" - but they both swim from Alcatraz. Again - you get what you pay for.

I still think that IMNA events are worth their $$ (although some reasonable transfer/refund policies would be appreciated).

Alan

First - I have enjoyed each of my four IM's and I think that IMNA and WTC put on a terrific event. But I think they already did when the races were have their costs of today.

(a side note): Xtri.com has a great two part story on Graham Fraser and IMNA, worth checking out. I honestly believe those guys do a good job and are trying to make it even better, I just don't know if the improvements are worth the rising costs.

I realized after IMC 2001 that $400 was going to be too much. I was tired of being in IM debt year after year. An IM is not $400.00, it's more like $3500.00 when you factor in a years worth of training, supplies, nutrition, prep races and their entries, travel-hotel and airfare, food, etc.

Unlike IMNA/WTC want you to believe, we don't all make the avg. yearly income of $110,000.

So we established that IM is too expensive ... now let's address the issue of the $70-100.00 sprint/olympic distance races!

If this sport is to ever thrive, RD's must find a way to lower the price of sprints/olympics that reach the masses.

Dennis "who still has yet to race this summer"