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How fast can Lance swim??
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I've never started one of these Lance threads, they always seem to evolve into a Chuck Norris discussion. But I want to be serious here. We can all guess as to what his riding capabilities are, they are well documented. He has done some running the past few years, and done well, running a mid 2;40 I believe, but what about his swimming?? I see threads where people think he will do an hour for an Ironman, maybe as fast as a ;56..I'm one of the few that was actually around in the olden days and swam against the "kid", and as I recall he was a solid front pack swimmer. Never off the front, but could hold the feet of our lead group in any race. We were all the guys that would go :49 high to ;51 low in Hawaii, year after year..So after a pretty much 15 year layoff of swimming, what can he get back to??

I think this from his twitter lately, just did a set with Jimmy, finished with 10x100IM meters (SCM I'm assuming), on the 1;45. Descended down to a 1;15. It took me about 2 seconds to figure out that he is already as fast as I am right now, and it tells me that the only thing holding him back from his old speed is yardage. For a conversion, that is about a 1;07+ for 100IM for yards. That tells me that he has all his strokes back, and at his age, there is nothing holding him back from the lead pack in Hawaii except fitness.

For me at 55, I cannot get much faster, and with a lot of training I might hold 2nd group around the ;53 to ;55 range, but at 40 it is a different story. Look at all the late 30 somethings that are still pro, and make the lead group in Hawaii, and you see age is not the factor. It was awhile ago, but I remember swimming with Wolfgang in my late 30's, and doing his birthday set of 33X100SCM on the 1;10. He held 1;01's to 1;04's, I just held onto his feet with my paddles. Probably the hardest set I had ever done as a master swimmer, right about the age Lance is now...

I think it would take an incredable amount of swim focus to get there, but entirely possible. Most likely he will get into very good shape and be 2nd pack, somewhere in the sub;55 range..

Just wanted to throw this out there as I was suprised when I saw that set he did this early. Forget about any 1 hour swims for Lance, the kid is back in the swim....
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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How fast can Lance swim??

Ask Jimmy R or this Juan Pelota dude. They seem to have this tight training group!



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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It would be impressive if he could swim even 2nd pack. But it is his run that would hold him back if he raced Kona. I doubt there was anyone in the top 20 that can't run under 2:40 open, most significantly faster. That being said, he probably can run significantly faster with time and focus as well. Remains to be seen if he has the training time or motivation to do that though, supposedly he is still racing next year, just not TdF right?

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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He was 3rd at Texas State meet as a teenager in the 500. Late 80s. Probably 4:50 or so back in the day. I guess he could easily come within a minute of that and with some work within maybe 30-40 seconds.

Edited to add - it was 4th in the state in 1500 meters, according to wiki that is.
Last edited by: Dave Luscan: Nov 7, 10 13:47
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [Dave Luscan] [ In reply to ]
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If he really did that IM set, he is already within a minute of that time, for sure. I think within 30 seconds of his old 500 time is within reach..

And I see that you have predicted that exact time for yourself by the end of the month, 5;20. From your opening swim, you have your work cut out for you..(-; How old are you by they way??? I'm recruiting for next years nationals in Tuscon..
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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he only needs to kick...

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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But it is his run that would hold him back if he raced Kona.\\

Hold him back from what??? I do not think that he or anyone that knows this sport well, expects him to win the race there, or even top 10. I'm guessing that he would just like to not be chicked, or perhaps the fastest 40 year old. Both those goals are probably around the same time, depending on if any of the old pros pitch up..He has a solid run, one that if he manages to come off the bike like a well paced pro, will give him a chance to achieve those goals. I think the only pressure to win or podium, comes from a right wing faction of the forum here, and has no basis in his reality..
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say sub 54, maybe 53:20 if he really focused on getting back, 55 if he just wants to make sure he gets out of the water with plenty of gas in the tank.

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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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He swims as fast as the main pack swims, easy.

Chann Mcrae's first Kona, he swam in the Deboom/Reid group, on very little swimming. I trained with him for a couple weeks and he was only swimming 4 times, 4000 yards a pop.

We all swam together as kids, and lance was faster than Chann.
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I think it would depend on if he is in pro or age group wave, 52 to 53 if in Pro Wave, 54-55 if in Age group wave. But I really can't see him starting in the age group wave, not good for him or IM as they will want to have a camera on him as much as possible.

MC


http://www.mctriguy.blogspot.com
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [screamin] [ In reply to ]
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 he was only swimming 4 times, 4000 yards a pop.\\

That's all about 95% of the lead group swims for ironmans, at least all the guys I knew. For ITU I'm sure it is more, and for the few break away swimmers maybe 5 days, but 4 grand seem to be most peoples cutoff on average..

And to the other poster, I do not think it matters if he goes AG or pro, both groups swim about the same time, and often switch who has the faster lead group. Now the bike, that is a different story. Lance definately gets an advantage if he goes with the pro group there. I hope they let him in with the boys, no way he is going through the qualifying process, and even if he did, probably would not make it anyway..Just let him in, dont take a spot from the 80 qualifying pros, and dont make any lame excuses of why you let him in. We all know why, it is good for everyone!!!
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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My opening swim was worse than predicated. 6:27. I called a 5:20 by next spring, not the end of this challenge. I will get there. Had pretty terrible mechanics throughout my swimming career that I am finally adressing with Finding Freestyle. The stuff works. I will be 39 next year. Todays 6:27 was my 8th swim since returning to the water after a 14 month break, and my first hard effort.

What nationals in Tucson? Du Nats?
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Monty why do you assume SCM vs SCY? As I understand there are very few SCM pools in the US.

Styrrell

Styrrell
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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sub 2:40 in kona? or just any regular marathon?
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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There are a lot of SCM pools in the use, but not many indoor.

Tiago
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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I think his 2:51 at Boston puts him in the 2:40 low range for a fast course open marathon. I also think he could be faster than that in the future.
Last edited by: Dave Luscan: Nov 7, 10 14:23
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [Dave Luscan] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder if any of the really fast swimmers like Monty know of anybody who has a similar situation to Lance's. ie; someone who swam near the FOP when they were young, then took a whole bunch of time off swimming (but obviously not away from competetive athletics) and then came back? Might be a helpful guide and might not be for predicting Lance's time.

Personally I would root for Lance to do as well as he possibly could. It would be a great story imho.

Just wondering if there has been any precedent?

Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [F Doucette] [ In reply to ]
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Once a good swimmer, always a good swimmer, it's just a matter of putting in some training and getting the muscle memory back.

____________________________________________________
"I like you. I'll gladly sit down and have dinner with you after the race. But when the gun goes off, I pretty much hate you, and I want to stomp your guts out. That's racing." -Rappstar

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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [F Doucette] [ In reply to ]
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I believe Mark Spitz took off over 20 years from swimming, and didnt do too much inbetween. He was over 40 and got back to about a 58 for his 100m fly. For anyone else that would be a PR for sure at that age, but of course he was the gut that held the WR for a very long time in that event, about 54 I believe..

We know of course that Lance was not idle for his 15 year layoff, and from what I have seen with myself and others, swimming comes back pretty fast after a long layoff. My longest was only 3 years, but I could do nothing over those years, so I'm guessing about the same as 15 years doing some other endurance sport at a very high level..

Like I said, his times in workout now suggest that he could get back to the low 5 minute range for a 500 free by next year, and that is lead group at Ironmans..

As to the short course meter question, I have swam in a lot of those pools, in fact did about 12 years in one in Carlsbad with a lot of other top pros..They just built two brand new pools here in Palmdale, and they are 25yd by 25 meter, my old college pool was the same, and I suspect a lot of others also.
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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Monty why do you assume SCM vs SCY?\\

I only assumed SCM because it said meters and it was 100 IM's. Hard to do 100 IM in a 50m pool.. Even if yards, not too bad, but in meters it is a very good set....
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [F Doucette] [ In reply to ]
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See also: Dara Torres.
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Monty,
I agree it should be intresting to see how far Lance gets with this IM goal. The swim should be interesting because he certainly has background which means technical skills. I know he was a strong swimmer but can't remember if was coming out of the water with the first group when he was younger. I did a few races when he raaced and remember guys like Rob Mackle beating him out of the water. Being with the first pack probably is not needed andthere is no way he goes in the top ten, but he could be the fastst 40 uyear old and be close to that 9 hour mark. I know on this site it is considered a failure if he does not win. That could not be further from the truth. This is a unique experience to se what is possible if you take a world class athlete in one of the three discplines, who also has a background as a succesful triathlete prior to his cycling career. For Carmichael's group it really will demonstrate what effects aging has on potential performannce.
While I see a good balance to his skills it would be absurd to even think that it will be enough to crack a top ten against athletes who are at the top of their game.

I think the swimming skills will come close to that 500 time but his 1650 time might be closer and longer distance might be even closer to what his abilities were when younger.
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [Scot] [ In reply to ]
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I did a few races when he raaced and remember guys like Rob Mackle beating him out of the water. //

Rob beat us all out of the water, be was not a lead pack swimmer, he was one of the rare off the front swimmers. I can probably count on less than one hand the nuimber of guys that could come out with Rob consistantly, he was the Andy Potts of our time. As I remember, Lance did not have to make up time on the bike, but was right there with the leaders at the start. Probably back of the lead pack, but there none the less...
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Re: How fast can Lance swim?? [Scot] [ In reply to ]
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But hasnt Carmichael himself brought up all this "Lance winning Kona"? Or did ST just go with the Lance story and all put it on him that he must win?

Ithought I remember hearing/reading Carmichael say Lance is going to Kona to win the thing, etc.Edit: The quote is "Lance wants to do more than win his AG". So obviously they must have thought/think that he can/could win it. Now of course this was spring time, so with his injuries/bad cycling finish and/or off the field issues(this issues may/may not even be an issue) not sure how that has affected his chances.

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Last edited by: bad929: Nov 7, 10 15:14
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