For now, run frequency. Just log base miles

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Hey,
no advice from me for your training just wanted to say that (should you live somewhere cold) you should be careful with interval sessions in cold conditions. I ran myself into the ground very efficiently last year and got a bad cough that cost me my sub 18 goal for 5k....
Good luck,
Uli

Positive mindset is my #1 go to thing. Doesn't mean always be happy when it's cold and raining outside and you have a 30 minute threshold session to do, it means keep your goal in mind & if you have an average session one day that's ok - it does happen.

Training wise, check out how Jim Vance trains Ben Kanute. Seems to have a pretty good philosophy for how to move up and down distances (ie superleague to itu to 70.3) with varying speeds :)

I had a somewhat similar goal three years ago - sub 17:30. I incorporated strides into my running at the end of 3-4 runs every week and did intervals every Wednesday on my treadmill. The intervals were almost all 1/4 or 1/2 mile repeats. I ran a 18:15 5k in September and just missed my goal with a 17:33 5k in mid December. Run mileage was around 45-50 mpw and I was running 6-7 days a week. Weekend long runs were up to 15 miles.

Here's the funny thing, though. It didn't translate into faster runs in triathlon the following season. I had my best runs in triathlons, setting run PR's at the half and full distance, this year without any fast intervals over the winter months. I switched to more tempo-ish Wednesday runs - anywhere from 2x15' up to 45' straight at paces that were a little slower than my half marathon speed.

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Are there any open track training sessions near you? All my fast 5ks were run when I did a weekly track session. You have to be careful because a track session can wipe you out if you hit the first one too hard. I don't really enjoy track stuff unless I'm in a group. But if you can find a group with someone there you can chat to and get a feel for how your speed fits into the group then it can be great for speed.

Outside training I'd pick my target 5k as soon as possible and ideally have a practice race where the same crowd is likely be. A big time gain is from being able to just follow someone for as long as possible in the race. So knowing the race pace and the people who will be running around that pace is a big plus.

Dropping nearly 100s is lofty. First crack 19.

On track, 1 min rest between each rep:
Week 1: 400x12 90s each rep
Week 2: 800x6 3:00m per rep
Week 3: 1000x5 3:45 per rep
Week 4: 3x 1 mile 6:00 per rep
Week5: 5k TT



Didn't hit the targets? Repeat that week next week.

Each week do a 3-5 mi tempo at 6:50-6:30 pace

Also you can do these on treadmill byy replacing distance with time. So instead of 400x12. Do 90s@10mph 12 times

For reference I did 19:17 5k April, started plan may that got me 18:30 in June, quickened paces for 17:49 in July

If you're only running a max of 25 miles a week, you could probably shave off the time by simply increasing your mileage.

Why are you targeting a single event 15 weeks out? 5 km is a distance you can race regularly and frequently without putting a dint in your training program or worrying about recovery periods. Regular racing will enable you to reach your target sooner.

sub 18 will be no issue with how much "low hanging fruit" you have

ramp up next 4 weeks to a minimum of 40MPW
run 10-15% of your miles at a faster pace (call it sub-7 for you)
Consistency - just keep running

You'll run sub 18 or close, no problem.

I'm in the same boat as the OP, just about 20 lbs heavier (5"11, 175lbs). My 5K PB is 19:59 and I'm hoping to break 19 mins next week in a Turkey Trot. Run mileage has been around 30mpw and i'm doing one threshold run at 6:40/mile pace and 1 interval run with 3 min intervals at 6:00/mile pace. Most of my running is on a treadmill. I went out way too hot in my last 5K (1st mile was 5:30) then slowly cratered.

Pete Magill recently published a book called "Fast 5K" and I've really enjoyed it and I'm in the process of implementing some of the stuff discussed there in my own attempt to improve my 5K time. I learned about it through this interview(https://scientifictriathlon.com/tts203/) he did with Mikael Eriksson on the "That Triathlon Show" podcast. I think it's definitely worth a listen.

 

Set your weekly mileage between 25-35 miles of running. Run 6-7 days a week. Maximum daily run required is 6 miles. You can run further but not needed for your specific goal. Cross training will help your endurance. Biking and swimming both good. Weights will help if you like them. Bench for arm power for increasted speed. Lunges for quad strength. Add weights up to 50 lbs for lunges. Sets of 3x7. Also, build your core for the increased demand on diaphram and stomach due to the oxygen increase and faster breathing for the leg speed.

Focus on speed 2/week. Speed for 3 weeks followed by recovery week. The provides 4 cycles over your 15 week time period plus a week of taper and two ease in weeks.

For speed days. Warm-up for a mile. Strides. Main set at 3xmile at a 5:50 pace or 6x800 at a 2:55 pace or 4x1200 at 4:20 pace. Walk/jog 200-400 meters between each. End the work-out with 6x150M pick-ups. Ensure you're at your top-end speed for half the pick-ups. This is where you develop the key ability to reach or exceed your goal assuming you do the other base work. Learn your pace for the race. You need to run 3 consective miles at 5:50 or better for your goal. You can set the pace above target in your Cycle #1 and #2 workout periods. Reach pace target in Cycle #3 & #4. For your other speed day in the week, do a fartlek workout. Warm-up for 1 mile. Run a 4 mile fartlek workout. That's probably how you will race. Top run speed on the Fartlek should be just under all out for sections in the fartlek workout. Do these on the road to ward off track boredom. For guaging the Fartlek run distances set up time periods, city blocks, road signs, or houses for targets along your run path. Warm down a mile.

Other run days are recovery, building base, and staying healthy.


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For clarification....those are TIMES, right? Not "paces". In other words, the 1600m, 800m, and 1200m are all at 5:50 PACE...2:55*2=5:50, 4:20*4/3=5:50.

I'll tell you how I did it. Miles, year in and year out. I've averaged a little over 2k the last few years. Most of all of my training runs are between 8 and 9 min miles. I ride about 10k a year and swim about 500k a year. All of my focus is around triathlon training. I don't do any speedwork unless it's a race. I do one 5k a year (Gobble Jog on Thanksgiving Day) and usually one 10k a year (Peachtree)

At 40 I hit 19:00
At 41 I hit 18:24
At 42 I hit 18:06
At 43 I hit 17:47
I'll find out next week what I can hit, but last Saturday I was 17:11 at the 5k mark of a 10k (36:50) and I'm down 10 pounds from last year (5'10'' 165). I would love to go under 17 min but we'll see.

Consistency has helped me drop time on my half marathon time from 1:29 in 2015 to 1:20 in 2019

Don't be discouraged if you don't hit the 17:30 by February. You will as long as you're consistent.

I am in a similar boat as you are. For me, not necessarily the 5k distance is my goal, but more, just top end speed work for me, which will obviously produce benefits at the 5k level. For me, I am just upping my weekly mileage quite a bit, and I am also doing ~3min hill repeats. The goal is that the hills will strengthen my legs, to lengthen my stride (The ONLY way to run faster, unless you are increasing cadence), and with the 3 minute duration will also attack my VO2 Max system pretty well (Which for me is probably a low hanging fruit, as I was always more of a high volume, low intensity kind of guy). My times are very similar to yours. My 5k PR is 19:47, and so I would definitely like to improve it some, but like I said above, not really the goal for me.

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My Strava

join the 100/100 !

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I'm so jealous of so many of you who have seen such great progress because I haven't seen any improvement in my 5K speed in years. I feel like I've tried everything (except paying a coach). I'm 46 (6'0, ~149lbs) and have been running a 19:0X-19:45 5K for the past 10 years. My goal is always to break 19. I'm running 5-6 days a week with a long run of 10-14 miles (8-10 min pace), a tempo run with 20 min @ 6:35-6:45 pace and a day of intervals at 6:05 pace (400's or 800's with 1:30-2:30 rest). My filler runs are 5-8 ez miles. I do strides 2-3 times a week as well. I just can't hold a good pace during my races. My first mile always feels easy (@6:05), 2nd mile I'm ok too but around the last 1200 meters my arms and legs get heavy and my pace drops 20-30 seconds (pretty sure the drop coincides with my heart rate spiking). It is so frustrating - I should be a good minute faster. I can't figure out what I need to finish strong. Hopefully the OP has better luck than me.

I love the stryd footpod. It really helps me keep a steady pace or push a little harder sometimes.

Agree with others that the OP will probably drop a lot of time just by putting in more mileage, and that 100/100 would be a good idea!



Have you tried running faster in workouts (with more rest)? Or longer intervals at goal pace (with less rest)? Are your strides faster than 5k goal pace? Intervals of 4s and 8s at goal 5k pace with 1:1 or 2:1 work:rest are not specific enough to a 5k; they are too short and have too much rest. You are training to run a 3k at 6:05 pace, which it sounds like you are doing well at! Use those 4s and 8s as a springboard to run 5x1000 at goal pace with 1' jogged recovery. Or 3x1600 at goal pace on 1:30 jogged recovery. Those will both be hard workouts but if you can do them you'll have a much better shot at nailing that final third of a 5k.

Have you tried cutting out the long runs and add more short fast stuff. Based on the below, you are training yourself to run slower than 5k pace.

10-14 miler
tempo run at above 19
intervals
5-8
5-8
strides

Just my N=1, When I was in my fastest 5k shape in my early 40's (17:XX) I was running 4-6 times a week with distance between 3.1 and 3.5. All of them at sub 7 pace.

Tom:

Right. Probably wrong choice of word but the right times.

Bit different than your set up. Yours is focused specifically on pace since you set a specific time target. Recommended that you be close as possible to even pace in your 10K race.

The OP wanted to go below a set time. He is also 20+ years younger so he can train faster and race more fartlek style (this provides more flexibility in reaching a maximum time goal) than set pacing to reach his goal. Youth speed can make up for a lot erratic pacing errors if racing. His splits can be negative, positive, or steady. A fast last mile in a 5K can yield strong possibilities. Only the strongest runners can yield top outcomes in the last mile of a 10K if the first 5 were off pace.

Oh to be young again and have that speed.

Thanks!

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you aren't spending enough time running at race pace. I START my 800s and 400s at target race-pace, and subtract 5s(per mile) for each repeat. That would be paces like 6:05, 6:00, 5:55, 5:50, 5:45, 5:40.

Instead of the long tempo run, I think you need to do mile (or maybe 1200m) reps at goal pace 6:05 (or better).

Also, you need to progress your pace...and trade back and forth between increasing the number of reps at a pace and increasing the pace. Eg:

3x1200 @ 6:05
4x1200 @ 6:05
5x1200 @ 6:05
rest week
3x1200 @ 6:00
4x1200 @ 6:00
5x1200 @ 6:00
rest week
repeat block at 5:55
...etc...

Similarly with the 800s/400s. Add repeats for a few weeks, then go back to the beginning but start quicker. Eg, start at 6:00 and descend.

As others have said, be careful with winter speedwork as it can ruin your season. I broke my foot last year and took 20 weeks to heal.

A few seasons ago I ran a 17:20 5k just off winter base in March starting workouts on Jan, ironically, I did not do a single session over the winter faster than 3:35/km. typical week was:

-3 Runs per week, 30-40k mileage
-Tempo, outside on Wednesdays, up to 10-12k
-Hill repeats outdoor, short and intense, maybe 6-8 k total for the run
-Long easy on Sunday with a few sections, 16 k building up to 24 k.
-Swim and bike mileage as usual. Longest ride on Sat no longer than 3 hours indoor.


Everyone is different but that got me there. I am aiming for a 77-78 min half marathon in Spring and planning on using the same approach just different workouts and going a little longer.

Yep, understand the goal difference (and stupid friggin, age difference). Just clarifying the terminology.


No shit! We had to run 6 miles in 36 minutes just to make the first cut for varisity soccer in high-school---seemed like a walk in the park at 17. That was at the beginning of the school year after we'd all been screwing around all summer long.

I had a similar goal to you a couple years ago, I was traveling quite a bit for work and could only fit in runs so wanted to break 18mins for a Christmas 5k. My previous best was 19:1X, but unlike most of the other posters here, I was able to run a 17:29 on max 20 miles a week. My longest runs were 6-7 miles, and the main workout was track once a week where I was doing 6-8 x 800s at goal pace or 10-12 x 400s at a bit faster than goal pace. So that's pretty much it: 1 long run, 1 track workout and 1 fartlek run a week.