Home made carbon insole hack backfire

May 25, 19 13:13

Post #1 of 34 (6248 views)

I do fiberglass/carbon work as a hobby (alpine skis, snowboards, surfboards, canoes etc) Figured I could hack the system and make a pair of carbon insoles and get my 80 watt increase I've been promised.

I pulled the insole out of an old beater pair of Nike something or others.

Laminated a couple layers of carbon fiber on the bottom side. Created close match to my foot shape, but not close enough...

I did 3 short runs testing them this week and they felt hard and uncomfortable if the ball of big toe joint was not seated properly. But when it was right, I could feel the watts increase and a certain pep in my step. Time to trial by fire.

My half marathon PR is 1:19. 4% increase would put me at 1:16.

Mark set go! Long gentle climb to turnaround should have been 38 min ish. I was at 42 but feeling fairly fresh with plans for strong negative split in the return.

I was holding 4th all the way to mile 8 and my feet started to really hurt. Omg I still have 5 miles. Time to get tough. I could feel the carbon spring in my stride but it was strongly countered by grinding pain in instep and arch.

This sucks. Pulled into 3rd at mile 10
(1:03, should of been 1:00 for a 1:19 at this point) entering the pain cave on all fronts.

On the turn around I saw a couple guys in hot pursuit about a minute back. I had to hold them off. Managed a couple 6:00 /miles from 10 to 11. HR at 195. Sadness

Mile 12 fell to 7 min pace. So close yet so far... Feet on fire.

Half mile left I looked back saw dude 50 yards back going hard . I had to go now!

Finish at 1:25 personnel worse. 3rd out of 800 not bad I guess.

Took shoes off to find huge blisters under toe joint and bleeding toe nails.

Back to the drawing board ;)

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 19 18:13

Post #2 of 34 (6063 views)

JYoung -4% insoles... ;)

ouch...

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 19 18:39

Post #3 of 34 (6030 views)

What's your CdA?

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 19 19:56

Post #4 of 34 (5954 views)

You only know if you try. Kudos for trying and then dropping the hammer in a race with them. Yup, didn’t work...but now you know.

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [Culley22] [ In reply to ]

May 25, 19 22:45

Post #5 of 34 (5837 views)

Yeah I was kind of worried about ruining a race with basically untested product. Worse case in this is I get some blisters , which I did. Though my wife stressed fact that I could permamantly damage knees or tendons or something. But then I remembered I'd done other more high consequence home made product testing in the past.

Testing a drift boat in whitewater and I'm not a river guy,
testing an OC 1 canoe in blue water outside crushing surf,
testing skis in no fall zones in world championship event,
testing snowboard (stiff as a 2x 10) in world championship event,
testing a SUP and paddle in the DOH

Testing a hockey stick in pre game warmup not so dangerous, it blew up on 3rd hard slap shot and the blade half flew up high into the steel girders of the ice arena and then fell dramatically to the ice. lol

I have a couple more tri related tests coming up. Made a nice little carbon aero box that I mounted to bike frame, too carry nutes etc. And an aluminum rear saddle water bottle cage mount. Have only tested on Zwift so far ;)

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

May 26, 19 1:01

Post #6 of 34 (5759 views)

Sounds like VKTRY insoles to me. They advertise in Facebook. Thick heavy and it hurts like hell. I recommend buying and trying Vaporfly for benchmark.

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

May 26, 19 1:07

Post #7 of 34 (5758 views)

If you know you know! ......what a Test....Jesus.

-shoki

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

May 30, 19 2:58

Post #8 of 34 (5225 views)

Why not just buy a decent pair instead or risking making more problems for yourself. I use these and they are a bit like custom insoles anyway as you gotta cut them down to size but they are a lot less expesive to say the least. The arch support is really good

https://yourphysiosupplies.co.uk/...fasciitis-foot-pain/

Last edited by: peterg: Jun 13, 19 7:41

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

May 30, 19 4:06

Post #9 of 34 (5182 views)

JYoung wrote:

Yeah I was kind of worried about ruining a race with basically untested product. Worse case in this is I get some blisters , which I did. Though my wife stressed fact that I could permamantly damage knees or tendons or something. But then I remembered I'd done other more high consequence home made product testing in the past.

Testing a drift boat in whitewater and I'm not a river guy,
testing an OC 1 canoe in blue water outside crushing surf,
testing skis in no fall zones in world championship event,
testing snowboard (stiff as a 2x 10) in world championship event,
testing a SUP and paddle in the DOH

Testing a hockey stick in pre game warmup not so dangerous, it blew up on 3rd hard slap shot and the blade half flew up high into the steel girders of the ice arena and then fell dramatically to the ice. lol

I have a couple more tri related tests coming up. Made a nice little carbon aero box that I mounted to bike frame, too carry nutes etc. And an aluminum rear saddle water bottle cage mount. Have only tested on Zwift so far ;)

You seem proud of a fairly half-assed/careless approach to both testing and your own safety.
Why would you go straight from a couple of short runs straight into a HM race without doing any intermediate testing. And I'm unsure if you're serious or kidding when you talk about a 4% energy saving potential. I hope you're not really under the impression that simply having carbon in your shoe, switches on this 4% saving?

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 21 16:49

Post #10 of 34 (3839 views)

"You seem proud of a fairly half-assed/careless approach to both testing and your own safety.
Why would you go straight from a couple of short runs straight into a HM race without doing any intermediate testing. And I'm unsure if you're serious or kidding when you talk about a 4% energy saving potential. I hope you're not really under the impression that simply having carbon in your shoe, switches on this 4% saving? "

I bet you are a ton of fun at parties! C'mon live a little, sounds like you take this shit too seriously.

FWIW I have since bought a pair of Nike 4% and have yet to see 4% increase in my HM PR.

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 21 16:59

Post #11 of 34 (3821 views)

Quote:

But then I remembered I'd done other more high consequence home made product testing in the past

This is the way.

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 21 17:40

Post #12 of 34 (3772 views)

JYoung wrote:

"You seem proud of a fairly half-assed/careless approach to both testing and your own safety.
Why would you go straight from a couple of short runs straight into a HM race without doing any intermediate testing. And I'm unsure if you're serious or kidding when you talk about a 4% energy saving potential. I hope you're not really under the impression that simply having carbon in your shoe, switches on this 4% saving? "

I bet you are a ton of fun at parties! C'mon live a little, sounds like you take this shit too seriously.

FWIW I have since bought a pair of Nike 4% and have yet to see 4% increase in my HM PR.

It took you 2 years to come up with that response?
You shouldn't have bothered.

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 21 17:48

Post #13 of 34 (3758 views)

Other stuff you should make/test:

Home made bike fork, test down pikes peak

Home made carbon fiber car brake rotors, test on Jersey turnpike (preferably at rush hour)

Home made Lineman grounding clamp, test on neighborhood transformer

Home made pacemaker, test on self after previous three

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 21 19:04

Post #14 of 34 (3678 views)

I was reminded of this thread today as someone sent me a PM asking about said carbon insoles. I looked thread up and found the most uninspired words, disguised as prudence, hanging there like a stale fart in an elevator. I was actually shocked someone could be so... square then I remembered were are at Slowtwitch after all.

If the proper planning and engineering goes into product before testing you shouldn't be surprised by its performance. In the case of the carbon insoles I was surprised enough to start a thread about it and recall the failure, for your entertainment.

Latest fail? I'm glad you asked. Don't forget to hit the subscribe button and the notification bell so you don't miss out on the ups and downs of cutting edge RnD... lol

I'll summarize. I've made about 60 pairs of skis over the years. This last pair I used 20 oz glass for the first time ever, instead of 6oz glass. In the layup process I did not wet out the edges properly so as to keep the edges from delaminating. As you might guess the edge came out in the crux at the top of a 2000' steep icy chute here in Alaska.

Some people have different tolerance levels for risk, I guess. In the end failure is useful because you can be CERTAIN as what not to do next time. /lecture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcOxSJnnJGI

Last edited by: JYoung: Apr 7, 21 19:09

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 21 19:26

Post #15 of 34 (3651 views)

Newest hobby?

Making custom carbon/fiberglass/wood long bows to shoot goats in Hawaii of all things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1zjNdlY8Hk

https://www.youtube.com/...IeSstKRfTiw&t=6s

2 bows so far. Almost done with the third one which is sized for my 6 year old daughter.

I never shot a bow until I made that first one. Those are first shots ever in that first video.

Behind the target is a chicken coop with 12 chickens. I had to weigh the value of the chickens life and the value of the eggs it produces vs the chance the arrow would miss and skewer the chicken.

There is the negative of one less egg layer but the pro that we can eat chicken kabob that night.

But chickens have feelings and maybe memories so I knew if I maimed a chicken and it ran around all crazy, the other chickens would be traumatized and maybe stop laying so many delicious eggs.

The wood chip target was nice until I emptied it in the chicken yard. I started using the OSB target but it is loud. Don't want to annoy the neighbors, as if they aren't annoyed by the chickens already. But you know what? The chickens did not like the resounding thud of potential death echoing feet from the coop and they showed distress.

I now need to either buy a $75 target from Sportmans Warehouse or make one. What should I do?

Last edited by: JYoung: Apr 7, 21 19:27

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 21 19:38

Post #16 of 34 (3637 views)

But instead of wasting time with god damned bows and arrows like some stunted, middle age, man-child I should be figuring out my camera mount system for filming Zwift races.

In this set up I just wedge the go pro in between the aero bars. It is nice view of 80" screen that is tipped back against the wall.

Adds a little bit of 'reality' with the bike sway. But problem is the bike sway is a bit much when I am out of the saddle laying the down da watts! And also time lapese sections are too jarring.

Would you not agree? Stage 1 Tour of Watopia

https://www.youtube.com/...u5Mu9Nf49E&t=61s

In stage 2 I put the camera over on a stool. It is nice because stable but you can't see all the screen.

Next, as in the second I stop typing here, I am going to mess with cutting a bar stool somehow so that I can get the camera right out in front.
Or maybe hang it from a string on the ceiling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVc7YnhuaXg

I know some of you tech gurus will say, " just pull the live feed and do it like all those other jabronies"

Problem is I going straight off Apple TV. is there a way to pull video file off of Zwift after the race?

But also need to maintain the melodrama of the post race melt down from the go pro...?

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

Apr 8, 21 3:56

Post #17 of 34 (3471 views)

I missed this thread when it came out a few years ago but I found it entertaining and light-hearted.

You were testing something you thought would work for you and found it didn't work as planned. Oh well, that's how we learn. Could you have don't it better? Sure, maybe but I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again.

Keep up with your hobby, try new things and do your best not to hurt yourself. Definitely tell us if it works or not.

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Apr 8, 21 8:48

Post #18 of 34 (3326 views)

the magic of the carbon shoe era is not the carbon plate. others use nylon plate. Its the combination of the new foam and plate working together. Carbon plates are not new. In fact I had the zoot tri shoes with carbon plate in them 10 years ago. More stiff like running in ski boots at times

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]

Apr 8, 21 10:47

Post #19 of 34 (3260 views)

Karl.n wrote:

Other stuff you should make/test:

Home made bike fork, test down pikes peak

Home made carbon fiber car brake rotors, test on Jersey turnpike (preferably at rush hour)

Home made Lineman grounding clamp, test on neighborhood transformer

Home made pacemaker, test on self after previous three

this thread is priceless

Home made parachute made from bed linen. Test by jumping from 3 feet then go right into jumping from an airplane

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [dgutstadt] [ In reply to ]

Apr 8, 21 12:58

Post #20 of 34 (3214 views)

Really? Running a half marathon with questionable but half decent footwear is analogous to jumping out of an airplane with a bed sheet?
Y'all be trippin'.

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

Apr 8, 21 13:10

Post #21 of 34 (3194 views)

I got away with some sweet turns on those custom skis before the edge delam day:

https://www.youtube.com/...wmtBU-I14&t=399s

Don't watch if you afraid of heights. Speed testing in gnar...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sw0V2iuFU4

And actual steep terrain

https://www.youtube.com/..._Q0a80vhs&t=268s

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

Apr 8, 21 14:06

Post #22 of 34 (3157 views)

Didn't you also win a Zwift group ride or something? 😄

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [dand] [ In reply to ]

Apr 8, 21 16:30

Post #23 of 34 (3109 views)

How could I possibly 'win' a group ride?! They are not a race...

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

Apr 8, 21 16:38

Post #24 of 34 (3105 views)

JYoung wrote:

I do fiberglass/carbon work as a hobby (alpine skis, snowboards, surfboards, canoes etc) Figured I could hack the system and make a pair of carbon insoles and get my 80 watt increase I've been promised.

I pulled the insole out of an old beater pair of Nike something or others.

I think you missed a key point and made a rigid plate like a bike shoe sole instead of using anisotropy as part of your layup as a tool to create an additional 'spring' effect. You would need unidirectional carbon (not a weave) with an embedded shear stress (from anisotropy in the layup).

Re: Home made carbon insole hack backfire [JYoung] [ In reply to ]

Apr 8, 21 17:00

Post #25 of 34 (3092 views)

dammit you made me look for it: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...1_P7425735/#p7425735

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