I have ridden my road bike with no clipons (I own a TT bike) for plenty of metric centuries at 50 feet per mile and 20mph on only about 185w.

Look into your tires. At 200w a 15w tire and tube change is massive. Or a brake rubbing.

Also, even for olympic distance that % ftp seems ambitious.

For clipons that position isn’t horrible but do you hold it all the time or cheat up some? Front view so we can see pad width?

the bike is fairly new, i bought it in february and the tires have only about 500km of "outside" distance on them, i rode this bike only indoors until around may, so i dont think that they are worn out if thats what you are suggesting. 15w is a good amount of saving thats true, but what change in tires do you think can make it up? pressure maybe? im riding around 90-95 psi.

brake rubbing is not the case, im checking this all the time before each ride.

the bars and pads are as close together as possible, my forearms are almost a straight line.

im trying to hold that position like 95% of my ride when testing stuff.

today i had a small segment of 4km where i was putting out around 180watts for 33kmh average - still not fast enough for what i am trying to achieve.

 

An aero helmet is one of the best bang for your buck choices.

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Once, I was fast. But I got over it.

im considering this, but will it save me 15-20watts? i dont think so :-( - still i think i should be faster with the worat helmet in this position, i just dont know why i aint.

What tires and tubes are you using? Your pressures are too high, especially if surface is avarage and I'm guessing you're using 25mm tires?

If you've got slow tyres and heavy butyl tubes combined with the pressures you're running there's a fair gain to be made there even at those speeds.

I think the previous poster was meaning about the actual tyres as in brand, model, size (width), pressure, and what tubes. Not whether worn.

There's a notable difference in rollong resistance between relatively cheap tyres and high end ones.
The very fastest (Vittoria Corsa and/or Specialized Turbo Cotton) can be relatively delecate..but a lot of others on this site rave about Conti GP5000 as a fast tyre thst still has some puncture resistance, + using latex tubes to reduce rolling resistance.
(Latex do leak far more so need to be pumped up on the day of the race. And need to br installed carefully to avoid installation damage causing punctures. But reduce rolling resistance and are far more supple.

What tyres and tubes are you using ?

That the endurance Canyon rim brake model? Looks like it.

If so, stack on that versus a aeroad or race version is taller. Meaning less aero on the clipons.

Also, if so, the tires Canyon list for that are 5w a piece slower than a GP5000 without latex tubes according to BRR website.

Next, thats super narrow pad width. I would widen it and do more work to adapt to the position. I would buy a big negative rise stem if you want it more aero instead of pad width. In my experience on clipons back in the day, pad width hurt my power more than I gained in aero versus addressing the stack.

Also, yes, helmet is a good bang for buck other than the tires.

Just get GP5000 and ride it that way all the time. Canyon says that bike came with “GP SL” tires. I may be wrong.

1. Position
2. Clothing
3. Tires and tubes and air pressure
4. Helmet or wheels
5. Wheels or helmet
6. Storage and hydration
7. Drivetrain friction
8. Frame

I'd also throw "cockpit" in there somewhere after #3

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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thats not an endurace thats a canyon ultimate cf sl - the tyres are 25mm continental gp (not 5000) just Grand Prix. i dont know what tubes because i hadnt taken a look into it yet - i didnt think that tubes would make such a high impact!

ok so im going to try a lower tyre pressure, what are you considering?

why is a wider pad faster, i thought you wanna make em as nattow as possible, im gonna try that too next time thanks.

First-position doesn’t cost anything. If you can get lower (lose the spacer and slam it) there will be cda gains to be had if power isn’t sacrificed. Younger/flexible athletes can do this easier than old farts like myself. You want the smallest profile heading into the wind.

Second-holding 0.86-0.90 IF for an Olympic bike is fine. I always aim for my np to be about 0.92 That’s the typical high end goal for that distance.

Third-find a comfortable no wrinkle kit.

Fourth-aero helmets are a good investment. Some can be had relatively cheap.

Good luck

thanks, im trying to get the flat dust cap from canyon to slam the stam conpletely (there are no spacers left) but they are not answering my mails sadly - would make me 2cm lower in the front.

on the picture that is my race fit suit already, its super duper tight and comfy - cant get any better.

im considering buying a scott split helmet, its the cheapest aero helmet i can find.

If I were you I'd definitely change tyres to GP5000 and fit vittoria latex tubes. If your tires measure out to 27mm on the rim and were talking a poor surface around 75psi will be optimum. If the surface you're going to be racing on is better increase slightly.

Everyone Is different but if narrowing your pad prevents you from getting a good shrug then you're probably going to be better off leaving them wider and having a more effective shrug. Narrowing your elbows and having wider shoulders won't make you any faster.

Folks posting about average watts, FTP, etc . . . everyone makes them quite high. It is always interesting that although mine seems low (at 60 years old), I am much faster with a lower FTP than what others post. Never had a professional fit, never been to the tunnel . . . have read and studied. I just ride. I am VERY comfortable, have fiddled around a good bit and have experimented on the same course many times.

My personal opinion is that you look great on the bike. Do you feel good? Are you having fun? If so, learn as much as you can and just go for it.

Ride a lot a have fun!!

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

What power meter are you using, and have you checked that it and your speedometer/odometer are reading properly?

Your position looks fairly high and a bit bunched up.
My thoughts: you basically need to take your position and rotate it forwards around the bottom bracket.

What saddle are you using? Try a proper tri saddle.
What's your seatpost? Can you get one with a forward offset?
Stem - get a steeply angled stem (like an old MTB stem) and mount it upside down (I use a 35 degree stem).

That should get you into a lower and comfortable position.

Agree with most of the above, aero helmet can buy you
5-7 watts depending on the helmet you have vs the helmet you get.

GP5000 and latex tubes will make a difference total of possibly 10 or so.

Even if you can't find that flat dust cap, you can always change the stem to one with more drop.

How clean is your drivetrain?

Not sure what power meter you are using, but drivetrain losses if you don't have a clean drive train with a top shelf lube ( see friction facts ) Also, sure about your power meter calibration? It reading high could explain a bit too.

Tire pressure, google silca tire pressure calculator for an idea on optimal pressure for your weight and measured tire width ( measured, not just what the stamp on the side says )

This can all add up to a lot.

Your power to speed is pretty close to what mine is on my road bike, and you get slightly higher mywindsock numbers than I get when I'm riding low and aggressive on my road bike.

I'd actually be interested in seeing what you could do with an aero helmet, GP5000, latex tubes, optimal tire pressure, and then get in the drops, bend the elbows, get low, and see how fast you can go at similar power output, and compare comfort as well.

Your position is pretty good. Keep in mind that people getting CdA in the mid to low 0.20s are doing so on aero frames with deep wheels, wearing aero helmets, etc.

The drop bars produce significant drag and sit out in "clean" air; you're on a road bike so nothing you can do about that.

Move the bottle cage on the down tube to a setup between the aerobars so that the bottle fills in the gap between your forearms.

Latex tubes for racing (cheapest per watt upgrade).

Aero helmet (you can get a Giro Advantage2 fairly cheap these days...not top tier anymore, but not far off). I have an Aerohead MIPS (so pretty top tier) that was $125 onsale online.

Wheelbuilder cover for the rear wheel ($100) if you aren't going to run deep wheels.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
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What is your crank arm length?

thanks for all the replies i much appreciate it.

I am using the Favero BePro Power Meter (single sided) - it is properly calibrated and checked against my indoor trainer with only a 0,5-1% difference - so the numbers should be highly accurate.

I actually feel great on the bike, comfortable and it feels like i can put out the power evenly as if i would ride upright. I had troubles with my first 2 saddles and now bought a Bontrager Hilo Comp, which feels really great. I have it forward as much as possible and 1,5cm higher than usual. I am sitting almost at the tip of the saddle, took some time to get used to it but i can relax in this position and have most of my weight on the elbows. I tried alot playing with bar angles and wide and narrow pad setups, the current seems to be fastest. Narrow pads make me naturally tuck in my shoulders, so thats why i keep it like that.

I am considering on buying the conti 5000 with latex tubes now and see what it gets me - trying lower tyre pressure also next ride.

crank arm length is 172,5cm

Power figures from a single sided PM cannot typically be taken at face value. If your producing more power on the left, either in general or under time trial/triathlon conditions, and the meter only reads that side and then doubles it, then your real power output could be far lower than you are seeing on your bike computer. Of course the fact you've compared with your trainer helps validate the PM's accuracy but I still wouldn't take it as rock solid. Trainers are not always terribly accurate either.

A lot of people have suggested changing the stem. As you probably know the Canyon's have 1.25" steerers so most stems won't fit as 1.125" is the standard. That'll probably make it impossible to buy a bunch of cheap stems for experimenting and will reduce the choice massively at any price.

Your position looks pretty good. If I were you I would NOT change the seatpost or cockpit to optimise the bike for triathlon. It's a very nice road bike (I have one myself) but not an ideal triathlon frame. If you convert it for triathlon it's ll be good at nothing! Either enjoy it for road riding, and get by with relatively minor changes such as the clip-ons for triathlon, or get a TT/triathlon bike and optimise things for triathlon. You can't have both and it's not worth the hassle of switching in and out components in my opinion. I went that route briefly in the past and I think it's folly. If you can afford and have space for 2 bikes and you intend to continue doing triathlons and taking them seriously - get a dedicated triathlon bike. If you're focusing entirely on triathlon and are happy to be without a road bike - replace the road bike with a tri bike. If you want to have a road bike long term, and this is a temporary conversion to focus on tri until the race - I'd just go with the clip-ons and maybe some easily reversible saddle and stem position tweaks. If you want to have a road bike between now and September but don't want to invest in a dedicated tri bike - Stick with just the clip-ons.

So I my suggestions are as follows:

1. Replace the tyres and tubes with something faster. I use GP5000 and vittoria latex myself, which is also what everyone else seems to be recommending. There are faster tyres but these get you close while also being perfectly practical for every day use.
2. Improve from 95% to 100% in aero position except if airspeed is very low on a climb or for stability and access to the brakes while cornering or descending.
3. Get an aero helmet.
4. Accept the limitations of a road frame and that you'll ruin it for it's intended purpose by converting it, without it ever being good as a tri bike. Set your expectations accordingly.

I've got a Felt IA14 and a Canyon Ultimate CF SL. As you'd expect I'm much faster riding solo on the Felt, even on very hilly routes, and I actually prefer the Felt on the trainer. But I far prefer riding the Canyon when I'm out on the road. It'll always be my choice for a few hours of enjoyable riding in the mountains (or on the flat), especially if I have company. If I could only have one bike it would be the Canyon, and I'd live with the much slower bike splits.

yeah so, im pretty sure the power meter is as close as a maximum of 2% difference in accuracy - to be sure, i actually even compared it to a 2nd indoor trainer my dad uses which is claimed to have an overall accuracy of 0,5% itself (elite direto x).

the reason i purchased an ultimate over a tt bike was because i wanted a really light bike for hilly terrain at first - doing triathlons wasnt a thing back then. i got a triathlon-/smart watch for my birthday soon after and thought hey why not start running again. after my friend asked me to go for a swim in the near lake i saw a few people swimming with wetsuits on and i thought „hey, now that i run and have a roadbike, why not try triathlon some day“ - as soon as i started training i really got addicted to it fast. as i already got 2 other bikes (2 MTBs) in my garage and couldnt afford a 4th one, i started to mod my ultimate a bit. to be honest at that point i never thought that there could be so much difference in aerodynamics from a modded roadbike to a true tt bike.

so yeah, im trying to make the best of it now and maybe if im going to compete on a regular basis, ill buy a true tt bike and get rid of one of my MTBs.

im getting the conti 5000 and latex tubes - aero helmet is also already ordered. i also get teh flat dust cap from canyon to gain another 2cm in the front.

thanks again to everybody.

Just to clarify, and it might be what you meant, the important difference between a tri bike and a road bike is not how aerodynamic the frame is. That's relatively minor. It's the position it allows you to ride in. That position is what provides the vast majority if the aerodynamic gains. It can be difficult to achieve a similar position on a road bike, although a forward offset seatpost, clip-ons and a new stem might get you there. But even if you can replicate a typical tri-bike position, the handling is likely to be far from ideal with far too much weight on the front wheel among other things.

Sounds good. There are lots of good points to take from this thread. Especially tyres, tubes and aero helmet.
Also think about what rchung said about your speedometer (yes that r chung) you may be going faster than you think making your calculations off. Your position doesn't look like a 0.31 position. I made this mistake when testing wheels and not accounting for 25mm tyres vs 20mm tyres. Doh!
As for your power I'll guess when you pin on a number you'll find out what your real ftp is. Every season I need to adjust my training values after my first race. I can't work hard enough if I don't have competition.

what do you mean it doesnt look like a 0.31 position and i might be faster?

i mean.... im as fast as the gps thinks i am, or am i missing something?

feel free to check my latest strava uploads if you like:

https://www.strava.com/athletes/48255409