wow! i'm glad to see that i'm not alone :-)

i'm new to this site and i'm happy to be here. i have 4 herniated discs, L4/5, L5/S1, T5/6, C6/7. i also have moderate degenerative disc disease in both aforementioned lumbar discs. i've had 3 MRI's. the latest images revealed an additional problem (great - just what i need) called Syringomyelia (SM) ..anyone have that, or know what it is????! it's a neurological disorder where a cyst forms in your spinal cord. pretty neat, hey? NO! this calls for a completely separate discussion...

aside from SM, the pain from my discs has prevented me from doing almost everything i love and now it's having an impact on my job (physical). i am 35 and am/was a very active, outdoorsy person and i feel as though my quality of life has changed drastically over the last 2 years. i've tried bed rest, drugs, homeopathy, PT, chiro, ART, accupuncture, spinal decompression, nerve root blocks (steroid), i've spent months doing core strengthening exercises, thought i felt better so would try a light jog or quick spin on the bike. i love trail running with my pooch and even tried alternating a run with a hike... all i end up with is PAIN. it starts in my back, then travels to my hip, then my knee caps feel like they're going to pop off, and if i run long enough my ankles give out. i'm an "alignment disaster", nothing is aligned properly. an EMG revealed extreme muscle weakness in my glutes. i've even tried working on my mind, was told that i was depressed as a result of all this stuff and being depressed also increases your perception of pain. so i even tried antidepressants in an effort to heal my psychological side..
i still have pain. the MRI's still reveal the same info (actually getting worse) and i'm the same position i was in before..

i cannot stand for longer than 3 minutes without SEVERE pain, i end up having to lean on something or sit, or die from pain
the pain radiates from my lower back to butt and into my upper thighs
i have EXCRUCIATING pain with even the slightest pelvic tilt or back extension
i lose sleep because of pain and it hurts to roll over from one side to the other
i seem to be able to walk, slower than usual, but after a while it becomes difficult to lift my left leg (feels super heavy)
feels like i'm rupturing discs anytime i sneeze, cough or laugh... my knees buckle from the pain
...and this is just in my lower back!

my neck and shoulder and head are in constant pain and discomfort.

my neurologist said that they don't typically operate on my condition because i don't have severe sciatica with pain radiating down my legs. majority of mine is localized in the lower spine, butt and thighs. he told me i would NEVER RUN AGAIN. he said that i should avoid heavy lifting (over 5lbs), avoid bending, avoid standing for a long time, etc. there goes my job, the notion of having and raising a family and any kind of physical activity.

this is UNACCEPTABLE to me.

i've tried researching surgery options for my situation and all the info is somewhat daunting. would they remove the discs entirely and fuse my vertebrae? do they just shave off the herniation? do they replace the discs with artificial discs?

i want surgery. this sucks. any tips on how i make this happen?

ultra_mo, if anyone is a candidate for surgery it sounds like you. There are a lot of people who have had success with it, but of course nothing is gauranteed. Good luck man, and if you can't ever be athletic again, theres lots of sweet video games these days! don't give up yet though.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

This forum is such a fantastic resource !

Just this past weekend I experienced symptons very similar to Ultra Mo above , excruciating pain down my thighs and into the knee cap , every time I stood I almost passed out , I vomited several times from the pain , couldnt walk , definitely couldnt sleep and so on and son on .

Saw the drs he was quick to suspect bulging disc , pinched nerves , had the CT scan and Xray confirmed this Dr says he wants to treat it conservatively at first , off to the physion tomorrow morning before decising on a neuro to have a look at it.

Have my fingers crossed for a smooth recovery - have confidence in my Dr and also the physio I'm seeing .

I'd be really interested in hearing how folks like Ultra Mo are getting on with their recovery and any tips or ideas .

Cheers

Ross

Hey Ultra-Mo - check out my separate thread on my C6/7 issues. One site you should take a look at is this one:

http://www.spine-health.com/...mptoms-and-treatment ; also:

http://www.allaboutbackpain.com/...l_fuse_anterior.html

the second one is specific to cervical fusions, but will give you an idea of that specific issue and procedure. I'm a few steps behind you and, thank God, not in as bad of shape, but I'm a big believer that if the condition and symptoms justify it, go for the surgery!!! I had a foot cyst that was killing me - sharp pain after even short runs - and I was fortunate to find a great podiatrist (after seeing a moron podiatrist for 2 months) who made the proper diagnosis and did the surgery, and it's been great ever since. Wishing you the best in this most frustrating and demoralizing time. I know how you feel.

How to make it happen? Today, most insurance companies will say you must go through "conservative treatment first.... blah, blah, blah" before more extreme measures. Don't be shy. Don't be hesitant. Find a sports/orthopedic doctor at a minimum, and most likely, a neurologist who understands and appreciates the athletic body. Then press them for all the options and be clear on what is or is not working. Don't be afraid to be bold and say, "I want to do this", up and including surgery. Go for it. Make the very most of it. Also, be sure to seek contacts locally - you might want to mention here what part of the country you're in, and ask for doctor references. That's how I found the podiatrist in Colorado who was a BIG help.

This thread goes on and on. Until I experienced sciatica and started discussing it with people, I never dreamed that (what seems like) everyone in the country suffers from it.

Of course no one should rush into surgery, and I don't think that any reputable surgeon would advise that. I suffered a TON of pain and couldn't stand stationary for over a couple of minutes, nor walk a couple of blocks for over 5 months before I had the MD surgery 3 weeks ago. Now I'm walking a couple of miles/day and I MARVEL at the fact that I'm pain free. My biggest problem is that I feel so good that I have to use my head to limit myself rather than the pain being the warning buzzer.

I basically had tried everything that I could get my hands on, including reading the Sarno book. Nothing worked. I saw one surgeon in the Midwest who basically told me that I'd have to determine when I couldn't take the pain any more and then they'd start doing fusions, one after the other. I could see my life going down the tubes.

Through a poster on this site I was hooked up with a neurosurgeon in Boulder who gave me some hope. I made the 9 hr trip to meet him, had tests and surgery, and to date I'm very, very happy. He's associated with a physical therapist out there as well, who seems to be giving me very good guidance. I've seen various PTs over the years but no one seemed to understand the importance of using my body for work and sport to me. I firmly believe that you've got to find a doctor/PT who is an athlete, because people like us have a totally different mind set than the guy who goes home and sits in front of the tv. I'd be happy to share their contact info with anyone interested. Living with pain sucks. I feel very fortunate to be really totally pain free. Some tingles in my foot occasionally, but hey, it's only been 3 weeks. The sky's the limit, baby!!!

+1 on finding a good doc/PT. This fall out of nowhere I was flattened by lower back pain. At the very worst of it, literally could not move. After that couldn't sit for more than ten minutes. My primary doc had x-ray done, then based on no skeletal problems and symptoms said "degenerative disc disease." He said I could get more imaging done (MIR, CT), but that the treatment would be the same--reduce inflammation and pain during acute pain; rehab through PT; then maintenance.

Went back to the runner's clinic at a teaching hospital where I had gotten PT before. PT there did some further movement tests, and suggested an "annular tear." Focus now is on core strength building. So far so good. Most days now it's only a mild level of discomfort, and I'm back to run, bike and swim.

Funny thing for me, during the worst the only time I didn't feel pain (besides when on pain killer) was when I was swimming really hard. I was at the pool nearly every day for several weeks. Go figure.

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Quitting is always on option; that's why it's hard.

As we can see it is very complicated but I have to point something out. This is one of the underlying causes of all posterior (towards the back, nerves) disc bulges and herniations. Some cases it is the leading cause, some cases it may only be 10% or so of the problem but it will always slow recovery and make a relapse likely. Many people refuse to give it credit because it is not an easy fix, cannot be treated with drugs or money making surgery and requires people to look at themselves. Posture!!! No, I do not mean holding your shoulders back (that is important though), when you "rest" (sitting, sleeping or reclining) the shape of the chair/bed and your position in it dictates your spinal posture. The following link shows exaggerated drawings but if your spine is not in the same shape as it is when you are standing then you are destined for trouble.

http://www.spineuniverse.com/...event-back-neck-pain

Tell me you don't see people sit like that all the time. Think about how you are sitting now. Reach behind your back. The back of your pelvis should be slanted slightly forward. I bet there is more pressure against the top of your pelvis than the bottom isn't there?
The only thing genetic is the likelihood that constantly abusing your back is going to give you problems in life. You still have to abuse it! Please read Robin McKenzie. It might not work for you but the info on posture is SPOT ON!
Has anyone actually heard what degenerative disc disease is??? Constant flexion or bending the spine forward(slouching included and that largest flexion force we experience) compresses the disc. It looses fluid to tissue around it because of the constant pressure and then is diagnosed as degenerative. Hard stenosis is your diagnosis? Usually either the foramen closing because the disc is thinning out because of above or there are bony osteophytes growing because the bones have made contact because they are too close together because of the above yadda yadda yadda. Almost every case can be linked to Improper Resting Posture.
Sorry if I sound crass but I spend 5 days a week nicely trying to talk to people about this and at least half the time I get "I was born with it", " I bent over wrong", "golf did it", and on and on. Rarely do I get people that believe it is something that they have been doing for years that never hurts them at the time(disc itself has no nerve roots) is the culprit.

One more parting thought. The disc material is gel surrounded by ligament. Just like any ligament injury it can heal, you just have to take the pressure off of it, which is harder to do with the back, to allow healing.

Debate if you like,
Zach

Herniated Disc Pain Relief and Treatments Guide.


Herniated discs are a major cause of disability in people under 45.
I am one of those people.
For the past 3 years I suffer L5S1 disc hernia, the most common type of hernia.
But each case is slightly different and that makes it very difficult to treat.
In my case I also have hyperlordosis, scoliosis and spina bifida.
I have been trying countless treatments and supposed cures. I was often left in disappointment but fortunately found some sources of relief.
I'm not a doctor, just a student with lots of experience with a mother which is a doctor.
At this time, despite my efforts, I have reached a point where I need surgery.
But if I have had the experience and the knowledge I have now I could have avoided this complicated situation for sure.
That's why I made a PDF with my experience and everything I’ve investigated and used to relieve my pain over the years.

I offer this guide for FREE to those who ask me by mail to this address.
dibujantesautocadrb(at)gmail(dot)com

Since my insurance does not cover this type of operation I'm asking for help through the IndieGoGo platform. There I explain who I am and where I come from, watch it if you can and share it if you like it.

*sigh* Disks are always quicker... oh wait.

My uncle saw sarno after battling severe chronic back pain for over 10 years. He claims it literally disappeared. n=1

First of all... GET LOST! Really, your first post on ST is a solicitation for people to take your medical advice a you're not a doctor?! We should listen because you have back pain and your mommy's a doctor! HA!

Secondly, I herniated the same disc you mentioned, immediately requested a microdiscectomy and laminectomy and 10 weeks later I was back to 100% training. Hyperlordosis is NOT a issue that causes excessive pain and is very easily fixed through, so don't try and con people into thinking they have to treat something they don't.

Thirdly, I say again troll... GET LOST

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-Eric
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"The Fit Shall Inherit the Earth" -Endurance Conspiracy

Interesting. The mind can play tricks on you. Ten years is a long time and I'm glad to hear he found relief. I still believe the book is a good read for anyone who has a history of back pain. It's worth a try.

Since I started this thread almost four years ago, I'm pleased to report that I have had no problems since my initial injury. After roughly a two month period for the nerve to settle down and get my movement back to 100%, I immediately went back to training, racing, and I still ride the motocross bike. I've had a few small crashes since but nothing that re-injured my back. I see my ortho doc periodically (not at his office) and he always says I was lucky on how I recovered and never had any more problems. I did feel some weakness in my left leg for a few months after the injury but nothing that I felt slowed me down.

Good luck to anyone who has a herniated or bad back.

3 years from my experience (your mileage may vary of course). It's all about the body's ability to resorb the disc material that's impeding your nerve(s). Had an L4/L5. Nothing really does any good except time. I went thru a ton of PT, shots and multiple MRI's. Had major sciatica in left leg, for the first 3 months I walked crooked to the left! I'm 4 years post my injury and doing good now. I got it from weeding my yard and it happened in only about 10 minutes! Arghhh! best... dj

Posture:
Standing - very good.
Walking - very good.
Sitting - very bad!! If at work and you sit, see if your employer can get you a sit/stand desk. Standing does help to position the disc material back into place somewhat. It helps! I began standing half of my 8 hr days and it did help at work.
Biking - not so good IMO
Sleeping - sleep on sides, prop a pillow between your legs. Sleeping on fronts and backs not so good.

Therapy's and Rx's:
Physical therapy - waste of time IMO. This is the textbook doctor approach and of course they'll start this first. My reason is it does nothing to resorb the disc material. Do it if you think it helps though. For me, nothing.
Stretching ham's - ok, good to do but won't really solve the pain much. Reason being, your disc material needs to resorb.
Steroid shots - good for 3 months. Worth it IMO especially within the 1st year of the injury. Highly recommend 1 to 3 sets at of course your doctor's order/direction. Not bad and painful to do. I thought they were good as they made me more active not having to feel the pain. Almost immediate results.
Alieve - good for 12 hrs. Worth it IMO if you're sitting for a long time. Best over the counter medicine. I hate medicine, but sciatica is so painful you're gonna want some at some point especially if driving IMO.
Sugars - stay away! Causes inflammation. Anything to reduce inflammation. I did try eating celery and fish oil supplements and think it may have helped a bit temporarily.

If 0% is the most pain and 100% is no pain and back to normal, here is what to expect with a herniated disk and sciatica (based off of my injury at least). I logged my 'pain index' every day for many years and this is pretty much the trend. I even took notes on things I did that may/may not have helped. Steroid shots will temporarily get you to the 70-80% level for several months of course.
Pain index (no steroid shots):
1 month - 0%
3 months - 5%
6 months - 10%
1 year - 10%
1.5 years - 30%
2 years - 65%
3 years - 95%
4 years - 98%