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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [jf64k] [ In reply to ]
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jf64k wrote:
Any benefit or negative to using Gatorade Endurance vs Gatorade with table sugar+sodium citrate?
Nope, not really. Just a little more pricey. And need to add a little less sodium.

Dr. Alex Harrison
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [Bryan!] [ In reply to ]
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Bryan! wrote:
I’ve read through this tread at least 4 times. Videos would greatly help. In the interim, hoping you can comment.

Looking for suggestions for a concentrated 22oz bottle for a 3 hr ride.

My current mix :
3 Scoops of Skratch + 4 Scoops of Carbo Pro + 2 tsp of Sodium Citrate.

After reading this thread am I correct in thinking that I should replace the Carbo Pro with table sugar and add caffeine? If so, in what amounts? Any other suggestions?

Alacrity Endurance launches shortly!

It'll cover all things endurance science, but with a very strong emphasis on nutrition/fueling info.

Product reviews too. I've got $700 worth of Skratch, EFS, Tailwind, and dozens more sitting on my living room floor just waiting for production. :)

In your case, yes, use sugar in place of carbo pro. All else looks pretty good!

Dr. Alex Harrison
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YOUTUBE | LIFTING | RUNNING | BOOK | NEWSLETTER
PhD Sport Physiology & Performance
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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Parkland wrote:
I followed the formula that Dr. Harrison posted:

1.25 cups of table sugar
1 scoop of standard gatorade powder
1 TSP of sodium citrate
Optional caffeine

Combined all that into a 750ml bottle that would get me through 3 hours.

Used the approach at Augusta 70.3 and set a PR and again at IMFL which was my first full. I ended up taking a couple of Maurten Gels and eating a couple of bananas on the bike as well, just because my body wanted something different. I got off the bike and felt strong throughout the entire run leg. Saved a good bit of money too, thinking I should send the good Dr. a tip.

This is awesome! Rather than tip, you can subscribe to our youtube channel, launching soon.

Serious congrats on the PRs. If there are two things I love doing, it's helping folks exploit their performance ability with proper fueling, and saving people time & money while they do it. Your story is like a battle cry to me :)

Dr. Alex Harrison
______________________________________________________________________
YOUTUBE | LIFTING | RUNNING | BOOK | NEWSLETTER
PhD Sport Physiology & Performance
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison wrote:
Parkland wrote:
I followed the formula that Dr. Harrison posted:

1.25 cups of table sugar
1 scoop of standard gatorade powder
1 TSP of sodium citrate
Optional caffeine

Combined all that into a 750ml bottle that would get me through 3 hours.

Used the approach at Augusta 70.3 and set a PR and again at IMFL which was my first full. I ended up taking a couple of Maurten Gels and eating a couple of bananas on the bike as well, just because my body wanted something different. I got off the bike and felt strong throughout the entire run leg. Saved a good bit of money too, thinking I should send the good Dr. a tip.

This is awesome! Rather than tip, you can subscribe to our youtube channel, launching soon.

Serious congrats on the PRs. If there are two things I love doing, it's helping folks exploit their performance ability with proper fueling, and saving people time & money while they do it. Your story is like a battle cry to me :)

Done. Looking forward to the content!
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Paging Dr Alex!

First of all, sent you a lengthy message on Instagram. Realised that was a bit of a dog act so thought I'd reach out here which might also benefit others in the pursuit of freedom.

I've acquired my sugar and Gatorade powder and I'm having either a massive overthinking moment, or I'm an absolute potato.

The sugar that I bought was 1kg of your white table sugar and the only Gatorade powder that is available in Australia now is the 560g Lemon Lime flavour, so I grabbed a tub of that. Working backwards off your ratio from what you dished out to your wife for her Festive 500 effort, that worked out to be 1kg of sugar and 9 scoops of the Gatorade, because the scoop size in Australia is tiny in comparison to what you're dealing with in the USA. According to the label, 2 scoops makes 1L, with 250mL being a serving size of 15.9g CHO, therefore 1 scoop is 32g CHO.

I have 6 weeks until my next race so I kinda need to start training my gut with your magic mix as soon as possible, so I'll be working to the 90g/hour that I've been rocking previously and then building up from there, assuming that I don't have an explosive consequence in training.

Where I'm absolutely struggling, is that in my brand new tub of powdered gold, I have 1000g of CHO from the sugar, and 288g of CHO from the Gatorade powder, giving a total of 1288g of CHO. When I prep for my next training rides and runs (pun intended), how much of this mix should I be dishing out per 1000mL bottle? Should I be estimating how much of the mix is in a generic scoop and working backwards from there? Should I be measuring by weight? Should I be assuming that 1g of mix has 1g of CHO and weighing it out to match my training duration? What's the best way to do this from here?

The other factor that I'm considering is that I'm trying to equate it back to what I have been using in the past so that I can work out if I'm going to be carrying more volume or less volume than what I have previously. For reference, my old product was 2 generic scoops (about 23g weight for 21.7g CHO according to the label on the nutrition product), so I'd like to know how many of those generic scoops I need of the new stuff to equal my old stuff.

Does any of this make any sense? Am I just a potato?

Ben
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [BNothling] [ In reply to ]
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BNothling wrote:
Should I be measuring by weight? Should I be assuming that 1g of mix has 1g of CHO and weighing it out to match my training duration?
That's a pretty reasonable approach. I don't weigh anything though. I just assume that 1/4 cup of sugar is 50g carbs and use measuring cups and a funnel to get it into the bottles. Should work the same for the roughly 4:1 sugar:Gatorade mix you made.
BNothling wrote:
The other factor that I'm considering is that I'm trying to equate it back to what I have been using in the past so that I can work out if I'm going to be carrying more volume or less volume than what I have previously. For reference, my old product was 2 generic scoops (about 23g weight for 21.7g CHO according to the label on the nutrition product), so I'd like to know how many of those generic scoops I need of the new stuff to equal my old stuff.
Your new sugar-Gatorade mix will weigh out roughly the same.
BNothling wrote:
Am I just a potato?
No but if you used potatoes as your fuel, the math gets much more complicated. ;)

Dr. Alex Harrison
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YOUTUBE | LIFTING | RUNNING | BOOK | NEWSLETTER
PhD Sport Physiology & Performance
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Harrison, I just wanted to let you know I read every post you do. So informative. I bought your book to support all the free content you give us and the book has a wealth of information too! I am trying to increase my carb uptake and was wondering if you could give some guidance. Last season, I did around 80-85 carbs/hr. I am trying to get up to 100 but I seem to get burpy at 100. I have been trying this in my workouts for about 4 weeks now. Here is my recipe.

.5 cup of granulated sugar. 500mg of sodium citrate.

I don't add any flavoring because I am fine with just sugar water. Is there a process that I should be following to increase. Did I make too much of a jump for .4 of a cup to .5 cup?
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [lonniecdams] [ In reply to ]
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Might be worth going 4:1 sugar:maltodextrin and seeing how that treats you. There IS some individuality in response to various mixes. Just MUCH less individuality than most folks (and the supp industry) would lead one to believe. Play with it a little.

Your jump up in carbs/hr is typically doable but it might not hurt to just make the jump to 90g/hr first.

I'm building an app that is going to coach people through this process. Don't tell anyone ;)

As cliche as it sounds, your support is appreciated tremendously and it's support like that that makes it possible for me to contribute freely the way that I do.

Dr. Alex Harrison
______________________________________________________________________
YOUTUBE | LIFTING | RUNNING | BOOK | NEWSLETTER
PhD Sport Physiology & Performance
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the reply mate. Appreciate it.

I guess my concern stems from the fact that my old product worked out to be 2 scoops for every 2.5km run or 10km on the bike so I was looking for a similarly simple formula for calculating how much to take.

I'll do the maths on how many scoops fit in a 1/4 cup and what that works out to be and work backwards from there.

Whilst waiting for your response I weighed a scoop of old vs new and the old scoop was 10g of product whereas the new is 20g. Not sure if that changes anything with your recommendations?
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [BNothling] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry I'm being dense here. I'm not following. Can you spell out the confusion a bit more?

The surefire way to make sure you're getting the desired amounts of carbs is to weigh it out. Then figure out what percentage of volume that precise weight occupies in any scoop size you like, so that in the future you can just scoop a known weight out very easily.

Dr. Alex Harrison
______________________________________________________________________
YOUTUBE | LIFTING | RUNNING | BOOK | NEWSLETTER
PhD Sport Physiology & Performance
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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It's definitely not you being dense. Just me.

If I'm working to the knowledge that 10g of the mix is 10g of CHO, even I can work it out from there.
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [BNothling] [ In reply to ]
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That's a pretty reasonable assumption. It's very likely less than 10% error, and that level of error of measurement is pretty acceptable when it comes to implementation of sports nutrition.

Dr. Alex Harrison
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YOUTUBE | LIFTING | RUNNING | BOOK | NEWSLETTER
PhD Sport Physiology & Performance
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What the deal with Isomultulose? [ In reply to ]
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Are these "low-gi" complex sugars (like isomaltulose/palatinose) any better for long (>10hour) endurance events?

Appreciate all your input here; thank you for your very informative content.
Last edited by: olmec: Jan 24, 22 2:11
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Re: What the deal with Isomultulose? [olmec] [ In reply to ]
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olmec wrote:
Are these "low-gi" complex sugars (like isomaltulose/palatinose) any better for long (>10hour) endurance events?

Appreciate all your input here; thank you for your very informative content.
No, definitely not. They just slow down / reduce what you're able intake comfortably.

Their only benefit is that they will steady out your blood sugar... but at the much greater cost of reducing it over the course of a long event, and reducing the amount of fluid, sodium, and other carbs/sugars you're able to comfortably intake.

They were a great marketing idea. Nothing more.

Youtube vid coming up on this topic this spring.

Dr. Alex Harrison
______________________________________________________________________
YOUTUBE | LIFTING | RUNNING | BOOK | NEWSLETTER
PhD Sport Physiology & Performance
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Re: What the deal with Isomultulose? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for this, super helpful and appreciated.

Here's the thing: I can knock off a full IM using isomaltulose (I admit that I was a victim to the marketing) without any GI issue, no bonking and can race super hard. I then go into the desert, start racing when its 40°C/104°F and after 11 hours (down to about 12°C/54°F in the night) I'm wrecked: nausea, inability to eat, just fall apart. I can take on fluids that carry electrolytes, but no coke, no sugary drinks, nada; and given that I've got another 12 hours to go, I obviously fail. This was on my second attempt too. Its getting embarrassing.

Looking to drastically redo diet, and so the CHO/SCH rabbit hole led me here. I enjoyed https://doi.org/...7/s00421-020-04534-y and note with interest this conclusion of theirs (supports your comments):
Quote:
These findings are supported by Oost- huyse et al. (2015) who reported increased gastrointestinal distress and impaired performance with during-exercise (2 h cycling at 60% VO2max + 16 km time-trial) ingestion of isomaltulose versus glucose/fructose (63 g·h−1).
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Re: What the deal with Isomultulose? [olmec] [ In reply to ]
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olmec wrote:
Thank you for this, super helpful and appreciated.

Here's the thing: I can knock off a full IM using isomaltulose (I admit that I was a victim to the marketing) without any GI issue, no bonking and can race super hard. I then go into the desert, start racing when its 40°C/104°F and after 11 hours (down to about 12°C/54°F in the night) I'm wrecked: nausea, inability to eat, just fall apart. I can take on fluids that carry electrolytes, but no coke, no sugary drinks, nada; and given that I've got another 12 hours to go, I obviously fail. This was on my second attempt too. Its getting embarrassing.

Looking to drastically redo diet, and so the CHO/SCH rabbit hole led me here. I enjoyed https://doi.org/...7/s00421-020-04534-y and note with interest this conclusion of theirs (supports your comments):
Quote:
These findings are supported by Oost- huyse et al. (2015) who reported increased gastrointestinal distress and impaired performance with during-exercise (2 h cycling at 60% VO2max + 16 km time-trial) ingestion of isomaltulose versus glucose/fructose (63 g·h−1).

Most important point of consideration for you: dehydration compromises gut absorption ability to the extent that you may no longer be able to absorb 50-60g/hr of any carb source, even more easily digestible options. Hence, hydration is supremely important. Therefore, don't use slower carb sources because they may impair your ability to consume adequate sodium and fluid.

Even if you're forced to use lower-than-optimal carb intake rates, it will be better for you to use more rapidly absorbable options (Maltodextrin from Bulk Supplements, via Amazon + Fructose from Bulk Supplements on Amazon, or sugar or some combo), because they'll allow greater fluid and sodium consumption with less GI distress risk, and thus, better hydration.

Better hydration --→ greater ability to absorb more carbs past 10 hours into your event.

Dr. Alex Harrison
______________________________________________________________________
YOUTUBE | LIFTING | RUNNING | BOOK | NEWSLETTER
PhD Sport Physiology & Performance
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Re: What the deal with Isomultulose? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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ps. I have no affiliation with Bulk Supps or Amazon, just happen to have those links handy in textexpander.

Dr. Alex Harrison
______________________________________________________________________
YOUTUBE | LIFTING | RUNNING | BOOK | NEWSLETTER
PhD Sport Physiology & Performance
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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So over the weekend, I done goofed with my first trials with the Dr Alex mix.

My 20km long run was about 140g of mix in a 620mL bottle (about a 22% mix) being carried by my Mum who was riding along beside me. Felt a bit uncomfortable at about the 8km mark, made the safety stop at about 10km where I had a bit of GI upset, felt a bit woozy sitting there and then was able to continue the run without too many other issues. Felt a bit crap when I got home, but had another bottle of water and came good reasonably quickly after that. I understand that it was just a bit too concentrated, but was a victim of circumstance.

My 100km TT ride was 180g of mix spread across 2 500mL Elite bottles with a 750mL bottle and another 600mL bottle of water for chasing. The nutrition went in much better and I was able to consume all of the fluids and calories evenly across the ride (2:45 duration). I did notice that I started to feel a bit foggy at around the 80km mark, and was starting to lose focus and feel a bit out-of-body, to the point where I contemplated stopping, but it passed and I was able to get it done. A quick transition and a solid pee and I was able to complete a 10km ROTB as well (although this was done without nutrition). I had no issues on the run at all with anything GI. I know that the bike CHO/hour ratio was lower than it should have been, and lower than I'm used to with my other product, but I've never experienced the fogginess before.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any advice to circumvent that? I'm keen to persist with this mix and just want to get it right.
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [BNothling] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sure Dr. Harrison will chime in here but did you add any sodium to your mixes (sodium is really important for absorption)? Also, I've noticed some GI issues if I don't take in enough water with the higher sugar mixes so make sure you are taking in enough water.
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [BNothling] [ In reply to ]
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BNothling wrote:
So over the weekend, I done goofed with my first trials with the Dr Alex mix.

My 20km long run was about 140g of mix in a 620mL bottle (about a 22% mix) being carried by my Mum who was riding along beside me. Felt a bit uncomfortable at about the 8km mark, made the safety stop at about 10km where I had a bit of GI upset, felt a bit woozy sitting there and then was able to continue the run without too many other issues. Felt a bit crap when I got home, but had another bottle of water and came good reasonably quickly after that. I understand that it was just a bit too concentrated, but was a victim of circumstance.

My 100km TT ride was 180g of mix spread across 2 500mL Elite bottles with a 750mL bottle and another 600mL bottle of water for chasing. The nutrition went in much better and I was able to consume all of the fluids and calories evenly across the ride (2:45 duration). I did notice that I started to feel a bit foggy at around the 80km mark, and was starting to lose focus and feel a bit out-of-body, to the point where I contemplated stopping, but it passed and I was able to get it done. A quick transition and a solid pee and I was able to complete a 10km ROTB as well (although this was done without nutrition). I had no issues on the run at all with anything GI. I know that the bike CHO/hour ratio was lower than it should have been, and lower than I'm used to with my other product, but I've never experienced the fogginess before.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any advice to circumvent that? I'm keen to persist with this mix and just want to get it right.


I put 1000 calories in 28 ounces pre race

1 bottle on the bike 1000 calories 28 ounces of water

It’s sweet but it was fine for me

Was fine last week in a half distance race
Last edited by: MrTri123: Jan 25, 22 13:54
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for sharing!

with your mix, if one were to go with 100 g of powder mix for 100 g of carb bottle, how much mgs of sodium would be in that bottle?
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [raulsan] [ In reply to ]
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How is it going raulsan!

If you follow my recipe it makes right around 4lbs of mix.

So if we do some simple math.

4lbs = 1814 grams

1814g/100 = 18

18 bottles of nutrition can be made with the recipe at that carb load.

SO.... 13 grams of sodium citrate equates to 12,700mg

12,700mg / 18 = 705mg of sodium per bottle.

I hope that helps, for the record I have started putting 20grams of sodium citrate in my mix which is giving roughly 1,111mg of sodium citrate per race bottle in theory.
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [teddygram] [ In reply to ]
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thanks!

i was trying to double check my math and later thought an easier question was to ask how many servings did your mix come out to.

i also wanted to be closer to 1,000 mg per bottle.

thanks once again.

r
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Re: Help me calculate an at home "maurten" drink (im bad at math) [raulsan] [ In reply to ]
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You are very welcome!

Dr. Alex is the mad scientist behind the mix, I simply made the formula.
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Re: What the deal with Isomultulose? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Dr Alex,

Read your posts many times over and thanks for all your input. I'm looking for clarification I've got my maths correct (afraid I'm going to use metric....)

I'm UK based so Gatorade powder isn't available. I'm going to try using High 5, which is probably our cheapest alternative, plus I have a tub on the go. It's a 2:1 maltodextrin/fructose mix (32% fructose). Normal mix is two scoops to 500ml, so I'll base this on the same liquid volume.

One scoop (23.5g) is 22g carb, which I've calculated to be 14.96g malto and 7.04g fructose, so near enough 15g/7g.

If I add 80g of table sugar that should give me an extra 40g each of glucose and fructose, so I end up with a total of 55g glucose and 47g fructose, or 1:0.85?

The high 5 has electrolytes, designed for two scoops per 500ml. Thinking I'll add half a high 5 zero electrolyte tab to each bottle to bring the quantities back in range. Or how much sodium citrate would you suggest in place of the tab?
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