Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc.

Sep 22, 19 12:34

Post #1 of 24 (3545 views)

In the few races I've done in real hot conditions I haven't had the best race, and I'm doing Kona for the first time this year. Previous hot races I've done have been the WC in Vegas in 2012 (near 100 at the race finish) and Eagleman a couple years ago, which was in the low 90's. I guess I placed decently at both of these events, but felt that I didn't handle the heat as best as possible.

I know that the easiest thing to do is plan on going a bit slower than in a cooler race, and to stay properly hydrated (but not overly so). I've listened to a bunch of podcasts regarding the heat and hydrating. Andy Blow with Precision Hydration is a guy I've heard on a number of shows, and I'll be using some of their products leading into and during the race. In the past I've used SaltStick pills during hotter training days and in hot races.

I know that keeping the core as cool as possible is ideal, so literally taking in a bit of ice at aid stations as well as placing ice down the tri suit, in pockets, and in the hat can work. I have some DeSoto arm coolers, but know they may not be as effective in a humid environment. Dumping water both during the bike and run is part of my game plan. DeSoto makes a cooling hat - worth getting one?

I've also just started a sauna/heat protocol where I'll build up to 30' sauna sessions after swims, 3-4 times a week for the next couple of weeks.

What about those cooling towels to put around the neck and rehydrate at aid stations? I've never used one - just a gimmick or do they work?

Anyone have other ideas or out of the box thinking that have helped you out in hot/humid races? Thanks!!!

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Sep 22, 19 14:44

Post #2 of 24 (3500 views)

Sounds like you are managing pretty well. There really isn’t anyth

I’m doing Augusta 70.3 again this year. It was a scorcher last year and expecting the same this year.

I purchased one of the mission enduracool helmet liners and it worked well during a century ride last weekend. I will say that the humidity was low. All of those type of products rely on evaporative cooling, so high humidity will limit the effect. So, I think they work but they aren’t some magic bullet that cures the suck of hot races.

The rest you’ve already touched on:

Definitely keep up the sauna protocol. Matt Dixon states 10-14 days prior to your race is your sweet spot for the heat training. I started wearing a hoodie outside during the day. My neighbors think I’m nuts, but I’m hoping it helps.

Lower expectations, your body has to send more blood to your skin for sweating instead of sending it to your legs for pace.

Dump ice and cold water on yourself to keep your core cooled off.

Bottom line is that hot races are tough. Sounds like you are well prepared though. Good luck!

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Sep 22, 19 17:21

Post #3 of 24 (3422 views)

Use HR to pace on the bike, not power. I last did Kona in 2016 and the aid stations for the first half of the race had freezing cold warer bottles, dumped those on back, head, arms. I really did not ge even a little hot until the turnaround. I actaully drank too much probably. The Dixon sauna protocol is brutal and will help, but the most important things are what you mention, all about not overheating in the race, which will show up with your HR. Once you overheat or your HR spikes, you have to pay for it. Take the time and effort to not bake. It is not complicated, you just have to do it. The ammount of time you can make up or lose in that race in the last 10 miles is staggering.

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [DBF] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 6:29

Post #4 of 24 (3311 views)

Thanks for the responses. I definitely recognize that HR can help out a ton. When I raced the 70.3 WC in Vegas I had to dial my power back by around 10% to keep my HR where it should be for a 70.3. I already plan on doing similar in Kona and using multiple metrics to help guide my pacing.

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 6:42

Post #5 of 24 (3301 views)

Have you ever gotten sweat tested, and have you measured sweat loss in training (weigh yourself before/after a hot run)?

At Ironman pace you can drink a lot more than you think you can. I take in almost 50 oz/hr on the bike and make sure to get in close to 1000mg sodium/hr since I am both a heavy sweater and salty sweater. I bonked in a couple of hot races before I took the test and realized I was taking in way less fluid and sodium than I needed. Properly balancing what you take in is so much more important than other methods of cooling yourself off, IMO.

As far as I know, I don't think you can over-hydrate, as long as you are replacing your sodium (to avoid water intoxication) and you don't have GI issues. For me that is super-concentrated infinit, Huma+ gels and salt pills at pre-defined intervals.

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [sch340] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 7:40

Post #6 of 24 (3261 views)

sch340 wrote:

Have you ever gotten sweat tested, and have you measured sweat loss in training (weigh yourself before/after a hot run)?

At Ironman pace you can drink a lot more than you think you can. I take in almost 50 oz/hr on the bike and make sure to get in close to 1000mg sodium/hr since I am both a heavy sweater and salty sweater. I bonked in a couple of hot races before I took the test and realized I was taking in way less fluid and sodium than I needed. Properly balancing what you take in is so much more important than other methods of cooling yourself off, IMO.

As far as I know, I don't think you can over-hydrate, as long as you are replacing your sodium (to avoid water intoxication) and you don't have GI issues. For me that is super-concentrated infinit, Huma+ gels and salt pills at pre-defined intervals.

curious how concentrated is your "super-concentrated infinit"? I'm using tailwind and can't decide whether I want to pre-mix a bunch of bottles with ~350 cal and 75+ carbs per hour OR go the super concentrated route. Both have been fine for me in training. I don't know if I could down 50 oz/hour. I don't know if I've tried though.

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 8:16

Post #7 of 24 (3240 views)

mickison wrote:

curious how concentrated is your "super-concentrated infinit"? I'm using tailwind and can't decide whether I want to pre-mix a bunch of bottles with ~350 cal and 75+ carbs per hour OR go the super concentrated route. Both have been fine for me in training. I don't know if I could down 50 oz/hour. I don't know if I've tried though.

I double-concentrate my bottles, although I know some folks have had luck with more than that. Infinit has a good blog post on that:

https://www.infinitnutrition.us/...ing/post/INFINIT101/

Each of my bottles has 520 cal and 1300 mg sodium. You just have to remember to grab water at the aid stations

You also have to practice drinking that much in training, I wouldn't try it out for the first time on race day.

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [sch340] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 8:32

Post #8 of 24 (3228 views)

sch340 wrote:

mickison wrote:

curious how concentrated is your "super-concentrated infinit"? I'm using tailwind and can't decide whether I want to pre-mix a bunch of bottles with ~350 cal and 75+ carbs per hour OR go the super concentrated route. Both have been fine for me in training. I don't know if I could down 50 oz/hour. I don't know if I've tried though.

I double-concentrate my bottles, although I know some folks have had luck with more than that. Infinit has a good blog post on that:

https://www.infinitnutrition.us/...ing/post/INFINIT101/

Each of my bottles has 520 cal and 1300 mg sodium. You just have to remember to grab water at the aid stations

You also have to practice drinking that much in training, I wouldn't try it out for the first time on race day.

I've been practicing with concentrated tailwind during training so no issues. I've done it in different ways. one way I had a 600 calorie bottle that I would sip from then follow up with water in BTA. The other way is a 1200 calorie bottle with lines on side and squirt up to a line into BTA and fill the rest with water. tailwind never seems to bother me. I don't think it matters much for me for my hot race as I will need to stop and get water at aid stations. In less hot races, I can just carry all the fluids I need and stop once at special needs to refill. But in really hot races I need my liquid nutrition AND more water.

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 8:33

Post #9 of 24 (3228 views)

Hi Nate

Done Kona three times , here is what i learned :

- consider an aero road helmet , I had to soft pedal for 10 mins at least after overheating using a helmet with poor ventilation (kask and aerohead) - I used the Vanquish last year and I was all good - i estimated I lost about 2 to 3 mins with the helmet but was definitely worth it

- I normally aim for 230 watts , i purposely aim for 220 watts

- a shit load of salt , I also pre- loaded using the precision hydration stuff

- carry a bottle on the run

- keep any salt you carry on the run dry - I poured that much water and ice over me , my salt tablets all combined into one big mess

It sounds like you have thought about this a lot and quite right , the run is miserable and ultimately we all slow down

Good luck !

Cheers Steve

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [sch340] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 8:36

Post #10 of 24 (3223 views)

sch340 wrote:

Have you ever gotten sweat tested, and have you measured sweat loss in training (weigh yourself before/after a hot run)?

At Ironman pace you can drink a lot more than you think you can. I take in almost 50 oz/hr on the bike and make sure to get in close to 1000mg sodium/hr since I am both a heavy sweater and salty sweater. I bonked in a couple of hot races before I took the test and realized I was taking in way less fluid and sodium than I needed. Properly balancing what you take in is so much more important than other methods of cooling yourself off, IMO.

As far as I know, I don't think you can over-hydrate, as long as you are replacing your sodium (to avoid water intoxication) and you don't have GI issues. For me that is super-concentrated infinit, Huma+ gels and salt pills at pre-defined intervals.

I've never been sweat tested, but have done the sweat loss rate by weighing before and after a hard 1-hr bike ride. I generally consume at least two bottles of water during racing and training, so I'm pretty high up there. Based on the Percision Hydration online sweat analytic, I have some of their PH1500 for hydrating and pre-loading. I definitely aim to take in quite a bit of sodium prior to the race as well as on race day - via Infinit, Precision Hydration, and salt pills.

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 8:41

Post #11 of 24 (3212 views)

UKINNY wrote:

Hi Nate

Done Kona three times , here is what i learned :

- consider an aero road helmet , I had to soft pedal for 10 mins at least after overheating using a helmet with poor ventilation (kask and aerohead) - I used the Vanquish last year and I was all good - i estimated I lost about 2 to 3 mins with the helmet but was definitely worth it

- I normally aim for 230 watts , i purposely aim for 220 watts

- a shit load of salt , I also pre- loaded using the precision hydration stuff

- carry a bottle on the run

- keep any salt you carry on the run dry - I poured that much water and ice over me , my salt tablets all combined into one big mess

It sounds like you have thought about this a lot and quite right , the run is miserable and ultimately we all slow down

Good luck !

Cheers Steve

Steve,

I'm already leaning towards wearing my Evade over the Aerohead. Would be giving up some watts, but at the price of overheating, not worth it!

In terms of power, I was thinking 15 or so watts less than what I've targeted in cooler races - in line with what you'r saying.

I often do long runs with a hydration belt - I did use that when I did Eagleman a couple of years ago to have salt already in a liquid to hit before aid stations - maybe I'll try that again.

Keeping salt dry is tricky - I just ordered some of the PH blister packs to carry on the run - stay dry until each one is opened.

I'm looking forward to trying my best to survive!

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 8:45

Post #12 of 24 (3204 views)

I keep my salt tabs in a tic-tac box. Holds about 10 of them, keeps 'em dry and easy to pop open the lid and grab one while running.

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [sch340] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 8:47

Post #13 of 24 (3199 views)

sch340 wrote:

I keep my salt tabs in a tic-tac box. Holds about 10 of them, keeps 'em dry and easy to pop open the lid and grab one while running.

Good idea! I use the M&M's mini containers and put a couple pieces of velcro on my top tube, so I can use 'em on the bike, then grab it hopping off the bike for the run.

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 10:32

Post #14 of 24 (3126 views)

natethomas wrote:

sch340 wrote:

I keep my salt tabs in a tic-tac box. Holds about 10 of them, keeps 'em dry and easy to pop open the lid and grab one while running.

Good idea! I use the M&M's mini containers and put a couple pieces of velcro on my top tube, so I can use 'em on the bike, then grab it hopping off the bike for the run.

Picked up a great tip on ST a long time ago: if you wear a hat on the run... put a small ziploc baggie in your T2 bag... take it with you as you head out on the run. At aid station, fill baggie up with ice, put it under your hat. Replace ice as you go at future aid stations. A great way to have consistent cooling on top of your head.

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 13:25

Post #15 of 24 (3049 views)

Be careful with salt and hydration. In 2016 like I said earlier they had freezing cold water bottles at the aid stations and I really wasn’t sweating very much for the first two or three hours of the bike. I feel like I drank too much(50oz an hour). I also think I went overboard on salt as I finished at the same weight as I started, which is highly abnormal for me. I had the pregnant woman ankles and I am skinny dude, could not see my ankle bones.
It’s hard because you just don’t get to experiment in those conditions.
100% on the evade.
I also wouldn’t even bother trying to get your heart rate to settle until you get to the queen K, everybody is flying and there’s just so much adrenaline. But once you’re up there, get to that heart rate immediately and get cold at the first aid station.

Last edited by: DBF: Sep 23, 19 15:16

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 19:47

Post #16 of 24 (2981 views)

I prefer hot races and do well in them.... here’s my .02

Get a white tri kit.
On the run, figure out where you can put ice. If you have sleeves, if your top is unzipped you can put ice in your sleeve by your arm pits and let the ice slowly melt
Putting ice in shorts helps, although I’d only recommend doing this in 2nd half of the run, as running with soaked shorts can lead to chaffing issues.
Maximize the ice. Put a couple of cubes in your mouth at aid stations. Duma some ice down top and shorts. Hold a cube in each palm. If you maximize the ice at aid stations, you can do well in the heat

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 20:16

Post #17 of 24 (2961 views)

natethomas wrote:

Steve,

I'm already leaning towards wearing my Evade over the Aerohead. Would be giving up some watts, but at the price of overheating, not worth it!

In terms of power, I was thinking 15 or so watts less than what I've targeted in cooler races - in line with what you'r saying.

I often do long runs with a hydration belt - I did use that when I did Eagleman a couple of years ago to have salt already in a liquid to hit before aid stations - maybe I'll try that again.

Keeping salt dry is tricky - I just ordered some of the PH blister packs to carry on the run - stay dry until each one is opened.

I'm looking forward to trying my best to survive!

The PH blister packs work great but they sound like maracas when running.

I like the BASE salt flip top container during runs. Less precise but more convenient packaging.

For ice placement, anywhere blood flows close to the skin is great. Armpits, inside of elbows, wrists, below collar bone. Top of head is good but doesn’t do much to keep your core cool.

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [Dan Funk] [ In reply to ]

Sep 23, 19 20:30

Post #18 of 24 (2948 views)

Dan Funk wrote:

Picked up a great tip on ST a long time ago: if you wear a hat on the run... put a small ziploc baggie in your T2 bag... take it with you as you head out on the run. At aid station, fill baggie up with ice, put it under your hat. Replace ice as you go at future aid stations. A great way to have consistent cooling on top of your head.

I picked up the same tip, but I devolved it to just putting ice in my cap. It is faster and the water dripping off my head gives more cooling. My last hot race also saw a lot of ice go down my trisuit front.

BTW, I believe ice on head provides core cooling. Obviously, your body circulates plenty of blood to your head even (or maybe especially) when it is hot -- and the blood that is cooled in your head goes straight to your core. YMMV

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [hugoagogo] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 19 8:39

Post #19 of 24 (2841 views)

hugoagogo wrote:

Dan Funk wrote:

Picked up a great tip on ST a long time ago: if you wear a hat on the run... put a small ziploc baggie in your T2 bag... take it with you as you head out on the run. At aid station, fill baggie up with ice, put it under your hat. Replace ice as you go at future aid stations. A great way to have consistent cooling on top of your head.

I picked up the same tip, but I devolved it to just putting ice in my cap. It is faster and the water dripping off my head gives more cooling. My last hot race also saw a lot of ice go down my trisuit front.

BTW, I believe ice on head provides core cooling. Obviously, your body circulates plenty of blood to your head even (or maybe especially) when it is hot -- and the blood that is cooled in your head goes straight to your core. YMMV

Sorry but several studies have shown that ice/water on your head doesn't cool your core. It does cool your head and makes you feel better so keep what your doing but if you are using it to cool your core your doing it wrong. To cool your core you have to cool your core.....not your head.

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [hugoagogo] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 19 8:40

Post #20 of 24 (2840 views)

hugoagogo wrote:

Dan Funk wrote:

Picked up a great tip on ST a long time ago: if you wear a hat on the run... put a small ziploc baggie in your T2 bag... take it with you as you head out on the run. At aid station, fill baggie up with ice, put it under your hat. Replace ice as you go at future aid stations. A great way to have consistent cooling on top of your head.

I picked up the same tip, but I devolved it to just putting ice in my cap. It is faster and the water dripping off my head gives more cooling. My last hot race also saw a lot of ice go down my trisuit front.

BTW, I believe ice on head provides core cooling. Obviously, your body circulates plenty of blood to your head even (or maybe especially) when it is hot -- and the blood that is cooled in your head goes straight to your core. YMMV

Yes, there is certainly some cooling at the core. Perhaps more accurately you cold say that the rise in core temperature is slightly mitigated. Compared to the amount of heat being generated, it is relatively small. The effect, however, of the perception of cooling is quite large. Ultimately it is the difference in perception that has the largest impact on your performance.

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [hugoagogo] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 19 13:18

Post #21 of 24 (2790 views)

So I'm sure to be roundly mocked for this, but I found trucker hats super useful for this. I got one at a group run once and used it in a tri a couple weeks later (for the style points, I'm not afraid to admit it); found the extra volume up top helped carry more ice, and it stayed more securely on my head full of ice.

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [FishOutofWater] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 19 13:25

Post #22 of 24 (2784 views)

What ever works when your suffering...……...

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 19 13:58

Post #23 of 24 (2753 views)

natethomas wrote:

Anyone have other ideas or out of the box thinking that have helped you out in hot/humid races? Thanks!!!

When training for the Barbados marathon in 2017 I did a Bikram hot yoga class once or twice a week. This was after my tri season so I had the extra time in Oct-Nov for an early December race. If you have time, this is helpful. Hot as F in the studio and the humidity was high too! I know of other triathletes who used Bikram/hot yoga as heat training for hot IMs. I also sat in the sauna a few times a week after swimming as well.

Living in Vermont this helped me so much racing in the Caribbean during December! And I had a pretty decent marathon. The second 13 miles felt hotter than the sun. My pace did slow but I kept it together for a good finish. And this was after having a little over one day to acclimate to the climate. Flew in Friday afternoon and ran Sunday.

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

Re: Heat tips - strategies, clothing, etc. [natethomas] [ In reply to ]

Sep 24, 19 14:13

Post #24 of 24 (2738 views)

Nate, I have a bit of a contrarian view here. I did Kona for the first time last year, and heard a lot of advice about taking in extra fluids, electrolytes, etc. Maybe I just did it poorly, but diverging from my normal 140.6 protocol screwed me up badly. I felt like crap on the way back from Hawi and had a crap run. This year, I will keep it closer to the normal program, with an extra salt tab or two and electrolyte drink based on feel in the moment. I wouldn’t do anything radically different from what got you there.

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.