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Hawaii Ironman Finish Times-Then & Now
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So, I'm flipping through the pictures of my Triathlete Magazine '03 calendar and one of the months features a photograph of Dave Scott crossing the finish line in 9:05. This was 1983, or so said the caption. I'm far from a historian on triathlon, but didn't Paula Newby-Frasier go 8:55 in '89 or '90? In the case of Dave Scott's 9:05 in '83, the competitors were not riding slick aero bikes, bars, 55mm deep rims or anything like that. These were standard road bikes, toe-clips and such. I don't have time to look at all of the stats from all of the years, but my question is:

With the introduction of all the recent technology over the last 20 years, it would seem from casual observation that finish times for the professionals have not fallen much. In no way am I trying to diminish their efforts in Hawaii. Has the "improvement" in bike technology, training methodology etc. benefitted the age-group ranks more than the pros? Have we reached the limits of human performance? Any thoughts out there?

Brett
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Re: Hawaii Ironman Finish Times-Then & Now [timberwolf] [ In reply to ]
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>>Has the "improvement" in bike technology, training methodology etc. benefitted the age-group ranks more than the pros? Have we reached the limits of human performance? Any thoughts out there?<<

I think in the mid-80s, there were just a few guys who could win and they raced like mad against each other. Now, it seems that there is more strategical racing (see Tim DeBoom). Just my opinion. Maybe Molina has thoughts????

1978: 11:46.58 Haller, G.
1979: 11:15.56 Warren, T.
1980: 9:24.33 Scott, D.
1981: 9:38.29 Howard, J. (Scott injured)
1982 (Feb): Julie Moss collapse; Tinley beat Scott 9:19.41
1982 (Oct): 9:08 Scott, D
1983: 9:05.57 Scott, D.
1984: 8:54.20 Scott, D. (one of the hottest days ever)
1985: 8:50.54 Tinley, S (Scott and Allen didn't race)
1986: 8:28.37 Scott, D.
1987: 8:34.14 Scott, D. (Allen to the hospital)
1988: 8:34 Molina (9:01.01 PNF, who was 11th overall)
1989: 8:09.15 Allen, M. (finally gets the Dave Scott monkey off his back--this is a GREAT one to watch)

1992: PNF went 8:55; Allen beat Bustos 8:09.08
1994: Dave Scott was second in 8:24; Greg Welch won in 8:20.27 (Note that Scott's time at age 40 was faster than any of his prior wins).

A full list of winners for the first 16 years is at http://web.outsideonline.com/events/ironman/splits2.html. And, a good history of Ironman is "Iron Will" by Mike Plant.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Hawaii Ironman Finish Times-Then & Now [timberwolf] [ In reply to ]
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We had this debate a few months ago. My opinion is that the guys like Dave Scott and Mark Allen pushed themselves much harder than the current pros. It was almost as if they wanted to see just how far they could push. Dave's fastest Hawaii was 1989. He finished second. 46 Dave Scott 00:51:16 04:37:53 02:41:03 08:10:13They rode faster on equipment inferior to what is available today and they also ran faster.
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Re: Hawaii Ironman Finish Times-Then & Now [timberwolf] [ In reply to ]
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Here's a complete list for men and women
http://teleline.terra.es/personal/jlpenag/triindex.htm
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Re: Hawaii Ironman Finish Times-Then & Now [Tri2HaveFun] [ In reply to ]
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That really is amazing considering the technology and what we know about training. I guess training a ton and eating a ton is the way to go to get those times. It really boggles the mind--you would think with the advances in bikes and footwear and swimming technique that someone would have broke 8 hours by now.
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Re: Hawaii Ironman Finish Times-Then & Now [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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Cathy,

Thanks for providing the stats and links. Perhaps once my finals are over (ugh!) I can look at AG times over the last few decades and see what has happened. If somebody has more free time on their hands (yeah-right) feel free to chime in. My guess would be that over all, times for age group athletes have come down due to the improvement in training and equipment. It would also be interesting to study the data and see what age the largest amount of participants are year by year and if this tracks with the aging of the "baby-boomers."

Brett
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Re: Hawaii Ironman Finish Times-Then & Now [Matt Berner] [ In reply to ]
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8hrs has been broken by several people, Luc, Jurgen and I think Lother all at Roth. Not at IMH...yet. It does seem that the current winning times are not really much faster than 5-10 yrs ago but I think the race has become much more competitive between 5-15th place.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Hawaii Ironman Finish Times-Then & Now [Matt Berner] [ In reply to ]
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actually, LVL nearly did it. his 8h04' time in 1996 included a 3' penalty for "position foul" or something like that.

in any case, it is hard to compare from year to year as it's not an attempt for a WR but a race. if you look at the track times during world champs and the track times during meets with financial incentives for WR, the second ones are way faster (like 90'' which is huge for a 10km for example).

I'd say that 10-15 years ago the pace was more steady, now there are lots of pace changes and even if the race is slower, it's not easier (anyone who has done road racing will agree). You look at PR when he won 2 years ago or TDB this year, there were wasted.

Now, if someone can put the same amount the lifetime fitness is offering for breaking 8 in Kona, then we could see some truly fast times. (not that they are slow anyway...)
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Re: Hawaii Ironman Finish Times-Then & Now [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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I think you would also have to take weather conditions into effect in Kona. That is a much bigger variable than at most other IM races.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Hawaii Ironman Finish Times-Then & Now [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Luc: 7h50 Roth 97
Peter Reid: 7h51 (short run though, dixit my buddy Olaf Sabatschus who was second in 8h07') IMAustria99
Jurgen Zack: 7h51 in Roth 97
Lothar Leder: 7h56' in Roth 97
Jurgen Zack: 7h56' in Roth 99
Lothar Leder: 7h57' Roth 96
Jan van der Marel: 7h57 Almere in 99
Thomas Hellriegel: went 7h56 some second behind Lothar in 96, and again 7h57 in 99
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Re: Hawaii Ironman Finish Times-Then & Now [timberwolf] [ In reply to ]
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[reply] Have we reached the limits of human performance? Any thoughts out there?[/reply]

As anyone who has trained on PowerCranks will assure you, we haven't come close to the limits of human performance. I believe a 7:30 IM is/will be possible in the next several years.

What these statistics do point out very well is that all that money people pay for "aero" and "weight savings" gets very little bang for the buck. It is all about the engine and running a smart race (experience).

Frank

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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