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HR versus Blood Pressure
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A question came up 'round the wine bottle about coaching new athletes age 55+ and the risk of potential medical problems. Does anyone out there trained in physiology know the relationship between heart rate and blood pressure?

As heart rate increases, is the increase in vessel wall pressure linear, exponential, other?

The question arose from a concern of medical safety of doing work between AT and MHR for any given sport, assuming the athlete has no history of health problems and is above 55-60 years old. Is there a certain age where this becomes important to limit?

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Re: HR versus Blood Pressure [sherrick] [ In reply to ]
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BP increases during aerobic exercise are minimal and not likely to be dangerous to any but the most critically at risk. Generally, an elderly subject with extremely elevated BP will have difficulty exercising (aerobically, e.g. running or cycling) at a level that would present any danger. IOW, their muscles can't generate enough load/demand to make the heart beat hard or fast enough to be problematic.

Dynamic exercises, such as weightlifting OTH, can cause massive BP increases and need to be pursued with caution by those with elevated BP.

I have worked with clients with SBP as high as 215, and found that 30 minutes of sustained aerobic exercise (in one case walking at 2.8 mph) caused a dramatic and near instantaneous reduction in SPB. The key is that someone with such elevated BP simply cannot run uphill at 8 mph, which would certainly have disastrous result due to BP high enough to explode the Goodyear blimp! In some cases, the "aerobic zone" heart rate of these individuals may be as low as 95-100 bpm.

Sustained aerobic activity is helpful to those with elevated BP. Resistance exercises should be performed cautiously, and isometric exercises should be avoided at all cost. The difference is that resistance and isometric exercises can be done at a much higher level of intensity, due to the extremely brief nature of such efforts.

Specifically, your question about exercising at or above AT for someone over 50...

I'm over 50 and exercise at AT+ at least three times a week. One of my former training partners is nationally ranked in 60-64 age group, and he does the same. The legend of Phidipedes is flawed, in that while one might be able to run oneself to death in 3-10 minutes, it is virtually unthinkable that someone with a strong enough heart to run for over two hours would suddenly experience catastrophic failure of that organ at the end. If there is any truth to the legend, then perhaps he died of heat stroke or other hydration related malady.


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
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Re: HR versus Blood Pressure [sherrick] [ In reply to ]
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Sherrick: Though not exactly on point, I recently had a Thallium Stress Test. I ran for 22 minutes, at which point the doctor said: "How do you feel?". To which I responded: "I could run this pace for another half hour, I think." So, he pulled the plug! :) Anyway, max heartrate for the test was 155 (I've recently hit 189 on hill repeats.) Blood pressure (systolic) hit 138. I'm 60, and am very slow. :) (Old tennis players make dreadful triathletes, but I'll bet my shuffleboard game will be world class at 90!)

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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What a waste! [ In reply to ]
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Doctors can be such dorks. Here he had a fit 60 year-old, something you don't see that many of, and he didn't care to run the test to conclusion. The data would have been interesting, to say the least.

About two years ago, I took a similar test as part of a research project that was looking to compare the health of hearts from people with varying lifestyles. They really weren't sure what to do with me, because they advertised for people with "history of fitness and exercise." I think that describes me to a T...

So near the end of the treadmill test, the doctor kept asking me if I wanted to stop. He was somehow concerned that the exertion might be too much for someone my age (50 at the time). This was exactly what his research was supposed to determine, and he was afraid to push the limits - a necessity under the parameters of the project!


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
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Re: What a waste! [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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C.E.: Well, my cardiologist is a Chinese gentleman who thinks vigorous exercise is weeding his garden. He told me such vigorous exercise as I do could not possibly be good for someone my age! He thinks Americans are nuts because they run a marathon one day then the next they drive their SUV two blocks to pick up their milk. :) He is soooo funny. I do love the guy....

He was impressed with my recovery rate though. About a 100 degree slope from the brief look I had at the print-out....

This is an interesting question, by the way. I.e., are IM distance races, and the concomitant training, ultimately good or bad for older people? As an experiment of one I can say I haven't noticed any negative effects other than the bloody pain of doing track workouts, hill repeats, and 4 x 400 sets in the pool. One of the older guys at this past weekend's sprint race opined that such training could not be good for people over 50. I disagreed, but I have no decent data to back up that view. I notice that after age 49 the number of participants drops off dramatically in most races. The upcoming Duke iron distance race has no males in the 60+ age group.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: HR versus Blood Pressure [sherrick] [ In reply to ]
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HR does not effect pressure directly.

pressure depends mostly on resistance in the vascular bed and flow.

flow depends on HR x Stroke Volume

The biggest determinant of blood pressure is vascular diameter which will change the pressure at the 4th exponent.

Generalities about HR cannot be made because HR changes for a lot of reason, ie. hypovolemia, orthostatic hypotension, decreased filling pressure, sympathetic stimulation.

If the SV remains the same for a higher hearrt rate and the resistance does not change than there will be a linear relationship

Specific to your question, even if they have never had any problems in the past, your client should et a full workup, this is something that you can't make generalities about, you should get a full work up for your and his safety in mind. It has less to do with his age but this is a good safety precaution
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Re: HR versus Blood Pressure [sherrick] [ In reply to ]
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I'm age 58, have a family history of heart disease and high blood pressure, had/have heart disease (angioplasty in Feb of 2000), take Lipitor and BP med (lisinopril). At a recent stress test my cardiologist put me on a treadmill and kept upping the slope. I lot to level 13 (meaning, 13 times he upped the slope) before my HR got to 120 bpm. He said, "Do you know the last time someone here got up to level 13?" I said, "The last time I was here?" (in jest, because I had never had a test there before). He replied, "I don't think anyone has ever gotten to level 13." But then my resting heart rate was 38 when I started the test.

My experience, as one with extremely low HR (I've measured it as low as 36 bpm) and also high BP that there is no correlation between HR and BP. My mother, age 81, claims an inverse correlation. (She too has BP problems and a very low pulse.)

Since my heart surgery, I've run 3 marathons and 3 triathlons. I don't listen to doctors when it comes to my own exercise program, because he's fat and out of shape. I just try to listen to my own body. Most of the time, my body says go. (One week, I swam, biked, and ran at total of about 15 hours, and, by the end of the week, I felt I had overdone it! Next time, I'll work up to that amount of exercise more gradually.)

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Do not take counsel of your fears.--Andrew Jackson
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