go with the oval

-it's more user friendly because it is more ergonomic.
(plus you don't need clumpy stuff on it.

-it's cheaper

-john cobb designed so you know it realy slipery to the wind

-john cobb designed why do you need more.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"it's more user friendly because it is more ergonomic."

the value of the hed is in its aerodynamics outside the bar's middle section. every bar, it seems to me, is going to suffer from the same aerodynamic reality: the body's torso sits directly behind it. so i don't know what difference the aerodynamcs of that section of the bar makes. but when you get outside of the armrests, this is where a bar can make a difference, because there's nothing behind it. in this sense i think the hed has it over pretty much every bar i've seen. if you make a bar like this, however, you'll suffer a bit in ergonomics. the question is, how much will you suffer? the hed's pursuit position is fine, quite honestly. it just needs a gripper. the other ergonomic minus of the hed is in the extensions, which have one upturn too many for my taste. i'm trying to ascertain whether you can just cut the last upturn off, which would fix that problem. otherwise, however, i find the hed bar probably MORE ergonomic than any other bar i've got, so you give a little and get a little.

"plus you don't need clumpy stuff on it."

are you talking about the white goop? that's clearly not the best answer. but nothing ventured nothing gained. i'll have another solution by the time i'm done with the investigation on this bar.

"it's cheaper"

you're right about that.

"john cobb designed so you know it realy slipery to the wind."
"john cobb designed why do you need more."

he designed them both, or rather, he aided heavily in the design on the hed bar (my understand is that cobb was the designer of the bar's shape, etc., and hed is of course the carbon expert). so both bars are heavily influenced by cobb, and the hed bar was designed by cobb to be the premier of the two.

both are good bars, but i don't think the oval bar gets the nod automatically. i'd choose the hed over the oval, because of aerodynamics, a unique means of clip-on extension adjustment that i haven't seen on any other bar, and because this bar is more able to accept a longer armrest, which i'm looking forward to seeing eventually. i think the hed bar is almost like a bike frame in a sense, in that it is better suited for future upgrades.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I asked a similar question on the bicyclesports.com website some weeks ago. John said the difference between them aerodynamically is approx 4-9 seconds over the course of a 40k TT. Since I am also 220 lbs, the oval makes more sense as it is aluminum, not carbon, which generally flexes too much for my taste.

Philbert

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Dr. Philip Skiba
Scientific Training for Endurance Athletes now available on Amazon!

I just installed and then removed an Oval Bar. NOT something I would recommend putting on my bike. It's not a clean bar meaning the welds are sloppy and the pads are minimal. The pad cups are way too far forward and there is not enough bar to grab on to when climbing.

I'm not sure why the reviews are so positive about this bar other then Cobb is associated with it but I think once people use it, they will see the lack of adjustability, comfort and quality.

"carbon, which generally flexes too much for my taste"

there is nothing wrong with the oval bar. but for the record, the hed bar is extremely stiff. whatever flex you'll feel in that bar is not going to be in the bar, but in the stem you use, which will likely be, ahem, aluminum.

both materials are either given to flex or to stiffness, depending on how they are used. both bars are acceptably stiff.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I have been using the HED bar for about 4 weeks now. I did one very bumpy race with some 35+ mile per hour descents into rough pavement. I do in fact notice a bit of flex in the HED bars. I weigh 176 wet at 6'. MIND YOU HOWEVER this is not necessarily bad. They actually help dampen some of the transitions between pavements.

I applied skate board grip tape about three weeks ago to the tops of the "hoods", by the way slowman, the white stuff does look like crap. The grip tape is key. It maintains the asthetics of the bar and gives unbelieveable comfort on sweaty climbs and descents. I also put a small strip along the brake lever to aid in gripping the small lever. A must. One other big improvement to the Hed is the installation of Profile F-18 arm pads. I was able to use one hole which was already in the pad, position them while seated on the bike, them marked a second hole, drilled and attached. I must say my Hed bars are now the ultimate.

I also recently set up a customer on a new Giant TCR 0 (15.75 lb out of box) with Oval bars. I also changed the arm pads to Profile,and attached them directly to the base bar with no risers. HE loves them now. The bike now weighs a scant 17lbs. with a suburban machinery titanium forward seatpost.

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"Nothing in life ever just happens. Calculated progression insures your strength."
Shawn Spencer
Bike Cycles
Wilmington, NC
http://www.bikecycleshop.com

Well, Shawn, that's all well and good. But don't you know that when you toot your own horn about your handywork, you're obligated to post some photos?!? ;)

No problem, been meaning to do it. I will put batts in the camera tomorrow and get some pics up tomorrow pm, (assuming my technologically ungifted self can figure out the whole process). Thanks for throwing out the challenge.

Shawn

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"Nothing in life ever just happens. Calculated progression insures your strength."
Shawn Spencer
Bike Cycles
Wilmington, NC
http://www.bikecycleshop.com

wow dan picked a part my post with really good points! i feel honored. like when your football coach slapped you up side the head and yelled 'what the hell where you thinking!' when you had to improvise a play then whispered good job as he sent you to stand with the other defensive backs. yeah like that.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

hello Shawn

Would you please tell me what modifications you made in setting up your customer on the Giant Composite frame. What do you think the final seat tube angle was and did you adjust the stem length? Any concern with compromised steering?

Thanks Kevin

Didn't he say it was a TCR Zero? That would be the aluminum frame without the clear coat. All the TCRs with number designations simply refer to the standard component and wheel packages they spec with the frame, which is the same frame from the ONCE team replica model with Record 10-speed and TCR 0 with Dura-Ace down to the TCR 3 with lower-end Shimano.

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The deeper you get the sweeter the pain. Don't give up the game until your heart stops beating.
--New Order

On the original set up, we simply installed the Oval bar and attached the STI shifters to the base bar. My customer did not know if he was for certain going to like the Oval. I encouraged him to ride it for a couple of weeks to try them. Yep that is right a "test" ride. Anyway, he was not really sure about the arm pads, so we did what someone posted and tried a thicker pad on the stock arm pad. NOGO. Next I put on a higher rise and shorter stem and customized some F-19 arm pads from Profile. Again I drilled an extra hole and attached them directly to the base bar without risers. We installed bar end shifters (Dace) and Diacompe reverse tri levers. Sometimes we cut the little ball end and polish the incision, but I left them on after grabbing the "reduced" lever on my Hed bars. When it comes to brake levers it is nice to be able to grab a substantial lever when necessary. We also cut a bit of the extensions to bring the shifters closer to his liking.

On the angle, I did not measure it exactly, however I am guessing it approached 76-77deg. We had a really nice ti forward post in the shop which is no longer avail from the manufacturer. (I did call and try to talk him into making more, but he said he did not see the demand. Maybe if he got a few emails from interested partys he would see the interest. He made posts 10 years ago in the pre sprint heydays.(http://www.suburban-machinery.com/


So, then we played with his seat height and cleat pos on his new Dace peds. No real steering issues. No more than someone 6'+ being very forward on a 650 wheeled tri-specific geometry machine. I have yet to hear back from him, but I know he is truly using the bike, not just hanging it up and talking about using it. Like I am doing right now and everytime I am on this board.

So that said, gotta go get on the trainer now that my 2 yr. old is safely sound asleep.

Shawn

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"Nothing in life ever just happens. Calculated progression insures your strength."
Shawn Spencer
Bike Cycles
Wilmington, NC
http://www.bikecycleshop.com

oops you are correct. the bike is a tcr o not "zero". Carbon w/dace.

Thanks,

Shawn

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"Nothing in life ever just happens. Calculated progression insures your strength."
Shawn Spencer
Bike Cycles
Wilmington, NC
http://www.bikecycleshop.com

Dan- 2 questions...1. Why would you put that (non)aero bottle on such a slick pair of bars...and I won't buy the "torso is behind it." 2. Why do you mount your shift levers backwards? It would be more ergonomic to have them point forward so your thumb isn't hyperextended in the smaller rear cogs. Just wondering the method to your madness.

Thanks!

Trischnitz

"1. Why would you put that (non)aero bottle on such a slick pair of bars...and I won't buy the "torso is behind it."

what's more aero? i don't see any evidence mounting the bottle behind the saddle is better. if one needs a bottle for racing that is refillable on the fly then i don't think you can do much better than either this bottle or the analog offered by syntace. if you've got a better solution i'm all for it.

"2. Why do you mount your shift levers backwards?"

i didn't. i mounted them forwards. the other way is backwards. :-) ii can ride them both ways, some of the bikes i get from triathlete mag to test are mounted the other way. this is the way i prefer it.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

According to J Cobb on the bicyclesports.com forum, the aerodrink bottle actually is pretty aero...it is the straw that is the problem. He said the straw creates enough drag that it will offset the amount of aero gain from having a HED 3 in front! So the best solution, according to him , was a bottle on the seat-tube or bottles behind the seat, so long as the bottles are not "way up in the wind". In other words, you need something like the minoura 2 bottle bracket behind the seat.



Philbert

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Dr. Philip Skiba
Scientific Training for Endurance Athletes now available on Amazon!

Yeah. All this sounds great. Let me see if I have it right:

I can shell out $500 for new one piece carbon aero bar and all I need to do to get a really great set-up is put white goop and skateboard tape all over it. Oh, and potentially change the armrests.
Sounds great. Where do I sign up?

Buy Vision Techs. There better. :-)

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Adam Duncan
New York, NY

Shawn (and others)- I like the idea of customizing some profile f-18 armrests for my oval aero bars. Was the process (drilling) pretty straight-forward? If I wanted to leave the small riser in would this pose a problem? I thought about just using the velcro on the holders provided and sticking a syntace pad on that, but the curvature doesn't match up too well.

Thanks

sweet

Sweet,
Yeah, simple and straight forward. I don't think keeping the riser is going to make it simple. Loose the riser if possible, because to attach the F-18 arm rests and pads, you will use two of the holes already in the Oval bar but in a cross pattern.
something like this..

OX XO
XO OX
x being the hole you screw the bolts into for the arm rests. The hole you drill will be just off one on the arm rest. Clear? Drill the arm rest not the bar!
Shawn

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"Nothing in life ever just happens. Calculated progression insures your strength."
Shawn Spencer
Bike Cycles
Wilmington, NC
http://www.bikecycleshop.com

Re. the front vs rear bottle mount. Is there any data available about the big picture? What I mean is if you have your bottles mounted on your seat then you need to keep breaking your aero position in order to drink, rather than just moving your head down a little to suck on a straw. So the bottles may be more aero while they are back there but breaking aero negates that somewhat. Is this less of an issue than the constant exposure of the straw to the wind?