Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Guru Magis any drag #s?
Quote | Reply
I just saw the pics for that cooper magis and I must say it looks nice! But aero is more important than looks for me, so I want to know if any one has seen any numbers on the magis, and compared them vs the industry standards (P3C, Felt, ttx). I must travel to Montreal for business in a few months and the idea of stopping by the Guru HQ's and ordering a custom bike has been distracting me ever since I found out about my coming trip. But I will not drop 3k on a frame that will be to far away from another 3.3k frame (the one that has me saving every extra dollar I can get my hands on!!!) yes the one many love, and many more hate to love... and others just love to hate... if drag numbers are not to far apart, the perfect fit will win, plus the thrill of making the appointment and showing up thousands of miles from home to order my first custom made ride!!!

It's the guy not the bike... but is there anything that causes more pleasure than planning and executing the hunt for a new steed?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Every morning a gazelle wakes up knowing, it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed...
Every morning a lion wakes up knowing it must outwit and outrun (at least) the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death...
It doesn't matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up, you'd better start running.
Last edited by: madracus: May 11, 08 10:03
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [madracus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think someone had asked the question before. I believe it was for the Chrono and the verdict was Guru's were horrible aerodynamically-especially so against Cervelo's P3C. Don't ask me for numbers cause I just remember reading the comments, nothing more. ;x
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [IzzyG] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
yes I saw that one, and also the comments by guru saying that for them fit is more important because body mass accounts for xxx% of the total drag and bla, bla.... but if you take a close look at the magis (see the recent post with pics) it looks very aero, very different from the crono (that looks nice but sucks in the drag #s)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Every morning a gazelle wakes up knowing, it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed...
Every morning a lion wakes up knowing it must outwit and outrun (at least) the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death...
It doesn't matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up, you'd better start running.
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [madracus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
well, if it LOOKS aero then it has to be.
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [bigdeal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
well, if it LOOKS aero then it has to be.

What is the point of this comment? He's here with a thread ASKING for how aero it is.
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
he's not really asking anything, actually. he admits he has the information. He's forum shopping for a better answer he wants to hear. The guys from Guru came on here and explained the justification for their manufacturing process. That is the answer. Unless the OP is a world class rider, or merre milliseconds from it, how "aero" the bike is won't matter, and to think otheriwse is a joke. Any aero benefit is lost the first time he sits up and stretches or reaches for a botle, or turns to look sideways with an aeor helmet on.

Given that, a comfortable, well-fitted bike is leaps and bounds ahead of a CAD bike that may hypothetically perform well in a tunnel under conditions no one will ever see
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [Lamar Latrell] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
he's not really asking anything, actually.

Yes he really is asking for something. He's asking for numbers. That's why he said, "I want to know if any one has seen any numbers on the magis, and compared them vs the industry standards (P3C, Felt, ttx)."
Last edited by: JoeO: May 11, 08 6:36
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [Lamar Latrell] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Any aero benefit is lost the first time he sits up and stretches or reaches for a botle, or turns to look sideways with an aeor helmet on.

i never quite understood the logic of this sentiment. frame aerodynamic savings are ABSOLUTE. if he's going to sit up and stretch, he's going to do it whether he's on a P3C, a Magis or a Titanflex.

And you talk about comfort. There is no evidence that one frame is more comfortable than another because frame comfort makes only a very small contribution to the overall ride quality of a bike. Wheel construct, tyres and tubes make a much more significant difference.

Furthermore, everyone eventually rides in exactly the same position on every single frame as long as it's within the range of possibilities for that frame. Nobody's going to ride in a less optimal position because they are on a bike with more aggressive geometry. They just add spacers or whatever.
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [Lamar Latrell] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
For some people in this forum like "mcho" money is not a problem... but for others money, and family time is the reason we don't race more, train more and or have better bikes. My last bike went bad, I can't say much about it because the company that made the bike has been wonderful at replacing it with a new one, but the time waiting for it has been looooong. I some how convinced my wife that selling that new frame when it comes back (if it ever does) is the best idea... she bought it!!! and I have a buyer... which leaves me with NO TRI BIKE!

So when I research the forum looking for my new ride, and I decide to post some questions and comments on something that is not out there, what I'm doing is trying to find facts that will help my decision making process.

If we all train hard, we all seat up or stand up for a few seconds to stretch and relieveve our softer parts, we all drink and if we all buy the best race wheel combination... not to mention we are all well fitted in our bikes then some thing has to make the difference... no?

Well all I'm saying is that I don't want to put a good amount of money in a frame that performs poorly in the battle against wind. Because I have the money to buy the P3C, the Specialized Transition and the Felt, they are all in my price range of 3 to 3.5k (frame only, I have the parts from the borken bike). And I don't want to race 100 guys in my age group armed with Cervelos and Felts with a poorly performing bike.

But there is a new option that looks nice. I just want to know if nice with the allure of custom (magis) has the same wind cheating and time saving specs than the bikes that I had already researched, ridden and considered as an ideal option (P3C is #1 and Felt #2)

Thanks JoeO hope we race someday... what are u ridding?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Every morning a gazelle wakes up knowing, it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed...
Every morning a lion wakes up knowing it must outwit and outrun (at least) the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death...
It doesn't matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up, you'd better start running.
Last edited by: madracus: May 11, 08 9:59
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis any drag #s? [madracus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think the geometry of the Guru Magis which is very similar to the old Trilite and that will be as good as anything similar to it. Getting the top high end frames out of the equation like the P3C, Felt DA and probably B2 and maybe a couple others I am sure the Magis frame is as aero as most other similar in its category. For example the trilite has really nice wheel cut out with the wheel actually coming kind of close to it (not like a lot of other stuff that leave huge gaps) the shape of the tubes is as flat and thin as most others you see so I dont see how the frame could be a negative. Maybe it doesnt reach the level of top frames but you are probably talking double the price of a complete bike with those frames as opposed to the Magis. Now if you talk about the Crono which is much more expensive then its a whole other argument.

The pics below look aero enough to me :)

Peace

______________________________________
"Bros b4 Hos, man" House MD

Team Aquaphor 06-08
Last edited by: ivansie: May 11, 08 12:44
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [madracus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:

Thanks JoeO hope we race someday... what are u ridding?

A trek 2100 road bike with clip-on aero bars. I sure don't want to know what the drag numbers are on that. I have Guru envy. (And Cervelo envy and QR envy and...)
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
well, if it LOOKS aero then it has to be.

What is the point of this comment? He's here with a thread ASKING for how aero it is.
The point was...he was casting a disparaging remark on the person who said (essentially) that it LOOKS aero. It's called sarcasm. Looking aero and being aero are frequently two ENTIRELY different things. Unless of course you happen to be an aeronautical engineer who spends their life in a wind tunnel. Then maybe, just maybe, you could reasonably say that something "looks aero" and have a reasonable chance of being correct. Otherwise, things "looking aero" is BS.


Mad
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [triguy42] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I do understand the sarcasm. I don't understand the point of it. If the original poster had simply left it at "it looks aero" the sarcasm might even be warranted. But he was on here asking if anybody had numbers. That was the entire point of the thread. He was asking for the truth. So the sarcasm was pointless. Of course he knows that looks do not equal numbers. Why would he be asking otherwise?
Last edited by: JoeO: May 11, 08 19:40
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis any drag #s? [madracus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's worse than the TTX and the P3C but we are talking about a very small amount of time over an IM. Like a minute or so IIRC.

And then, there is something that is somewhat immesurable like the power transfer you get on the Guru that FELT to me much better than the P3C.

Plus, if you can ride in a more aero position on a guru than on a P3C, then you can win with it.
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis any drag #s? [ivansie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
COOOL bike, the paint job is elegant and looks fast, that bike is a clear statement that aluminum will never die, I love carbon but alu is just great. I'm ridding a Specialized Transition, the alu E5 model, and I love it, I just wish it had the steeper angles of my broken carbon bike. My coach advised to get a road bike to train and keep the old Transition for racing, he is the type of guy that smokes everyone in an old road bike. I bet the Trek does it too joeO!

Any way I want to follow my coach's advice but also I would love to have my nice bike again (I'm a guy who loves his gadgets), and until 2 days ago I had my eye on the P3C but then I saw the post with the new magis http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; and all has changed... because I'm thinking that with my shorter than average torso and good elasticity the custom geometry with a steeeep angle, short top tube and short head tube could work like a charm, more so than the P3C I'm guessing!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Every morning a gazelle wakes up knowing, it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed...
Every morning a lion wakes up knowing it must outwit and outrun (at least) the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death...
It doesn't matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up, you'd better start running.
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [madracus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Well all I'm saying is that I don't want to put a good amount of money in a frame that performs poorly in the battle against wind. Because I have the money to buy the P3C, the Specialized Transition and the Felt, they are all in my price range of 3 to 3.5k (frame only, I have the parts from the borken bike)...

If you're basing your decision on drag numbers, I'm curious as to why you include the Transition in that list?

I only say that because there's just as much "hard data" on the drag of the new Transition out there as there is with the Guru Magi...in other words, "nada" (that I'm aware of anyway).

I also find that to be a bit puzzling...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis any drag #s? [madracus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've got a Chron'alu, and have no doubt the Magis looks great, but as other posters have said, the real reason to buy a Guru is the custom fit. I've got short torso, long legs and long arms, and so went custom, also because I like the idea of riding a bike made for me, instead of off the assembly line, but I keep bikes for many many years. The two things I don't like about the Magis, the dropouts look vertical, makes for sense to be horizontal for tight fit with seat-tube and wheel, no? The head tube is pretty plane, thought easy aero savings could be had with more shaped head tubes.

------------------------------------------------------------
some days you're the windshield some days the bug
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis fit vs aero [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes Tom you are right, I included the Transition because I was searching for Transition numbers and it was in my head, it was one of those "LAPSUS" (I bet it's not even spelled correct!) moments. I would love to have numbers on the Transition because I'm riding and old one now and the quality is good so I'm guessing that the new one must be better. All I found on the Transition was Tom Demerly going hard on those sharp angles, slopping top tube and rear brake cable sticking out. But it's only his opinion (sounds like a logic one I must say) no data to back it up. I'm not qualified to comment on how aero one frame is, less so to compare one against the other, but the magis to the untrained eye looks better than the Transition, but then again is not easy because one could say that the Felt looks as good as the P3C but we have hard numbers that say it's not (for me the difference is so small that they are equal). But really what we need is some one like Mr. Cobb to publish all of his findings so we can separate the bikes that go as fast/hard as you trained, and the ones that require more training to go as hard/fast as you would in the other ones.


unclerock Those two things were on my mind too, but I'm thinking that if the overall performance of the frame is close to the top bikes, I'm well served. A friend bought a Scott Plasma a few years ago, and was very happy. But then the airline lost his bike for his big IM race. To make the story short he rented or borrowed a Cervelo from a guy that was feeling sick and was not going to race (go figure), and his bike split that had been in the 6:20 park for years dropped to 5:55. and the bike leg was Wisconsin! Many things come to play when you have such a great race day, but lets say the bike did play a roll, large or small is very debatable but it did make a difference. He now rides a Cervelo... but did not sell the Scott! If so much information is out there for manufactures to use, and for consumers to make better choices why buy a bike that will slow you down? But as you said the custom fit part is so tempting that I just want to make sure that the rest is not so far away. Bike manufactures must understand that serving the triathlon community is not going to be as easy as they thought, they either come out with fast bikes or stay with the draft legal and road crowd.

I've never won a race... but I will some day! so I must be ready!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Every morning a gazelle wakes up knowing, it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed...
Every morning a lion wakes up knowing it must outwit and outrun (at least) the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death...
It doesn't matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up, you'd better start running.
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis any drag #s? [madracus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks. I like the non-busy looks and black is always trendy :)

Thats why I am selling my road bike which was black with a little yellow/silver and going with a mostly black bike with some minor red/silver. Easier to match with clothes too :) for the ones that care about that sort of stuff!!!!

I had a Cronalu previous to this bike which was full Alu. The Trilite has a carbon rear triangle. To be honest ride quality is pretty much the same. I have ridden several full carbon tri-bikes (no need to name names) and didnt find any noticeable ride quality improvement even for 30-40 miles (it was not your normal ride around the block shop demo). I think the magis is close in geometry to the Trilite and probably tube shape is also similar (havent seen one in person).

Peace

______________________________________
"Bros b4 Hos, man" House MD

Team Aquaphor 06-08
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis any drag #s? [ivansie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Similar tube shapes for the front triangle, but completely re-designed rear end. The bike does share a number of cosmetic traits as the Trilite, and we did it on purpose as it's a great simple and clean design.

Michel Somogyi
Sales Representative
Guru Bikes
Quote Reply
Re: Guru Magis any drag #s? [Guru Bikes] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Agree with you, it has a very timeless look. Do you have any technical information on it regarding aero profile and why the redesign versus the trilite.

Peace

______________________________________
"Bros b4 Hos, man" House MD

Team Aquaphor 06-08
Quote Reply