As someone who doesn't live in the US I'm absolutely astonished at this thread. I can't imagine going for a run and having to be armed. I'm sure any other European reading this thread will be just as staggered as I am.

they're all too expensive now anyways :)

prices have quadrupled in the past week.

As someone who doesn't live in the US I'm absolutely astonished at this thread. I can't imagine going for a run and having to be armed. I'm sure any other European reading this thread will be just as staggered as I am.

That's the thing - there is your opinion, that is shared by almost every person in every other democratic country on the planet( which I share as well), that this whole gun thing is absurd, and then there is the opinion of the pro-gun crowd in the U.S. and they are absolute polar opposites of one another! In their view we have this completely and totally wrong, and all the countries, and the billion+ people in them, and all the statistics, and all the evidence, are all wrong as well. It's one of those frustrating win/lose or lose/lose discussions.

As to the topic at hand - for some, being armed when they train, is something that they obviously, consciously think about or are concerned about, but for others, myself included, in 30 years of training in all sorts of strange places all over the world, it's, not even the last thing on my mind, it's something that I have never thought about!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I stopped at the local gun shop Sat AM. Inventory is demolished and he is not price gouging, really he's not. Nothing fit my budget since I'm saving for a wheelset. I'm happy with my duty pistol (9mm) and target rifle (22LR), no doomsday preppers in this house!


To the point of carry while training: I guess I'm fortunate to have lived, and presently live, in low (perceived) crime areas. We've all been called names because of spandex and what we do, however that's no reason to carry. Maybe if yo're in Dorchester or Mattapan, MA you have a different perspective! I'm in the burbs and just go ride & run.

Even if you carry sub-compact, where the heck to you conceal it? Belly band as noted above, inside waistband where it get sweaty and nasty? I can't thing of a practical method. Do you practice drawing from that location so you are proficient at it, especially under duress?

Hey, aren't we all Superman? Faster than a speeding bullet?

Merry Christmas, Everyone

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If you're going to kick a tiger in the @$$, you better have a plan to deal with his teeth.

Sounds reasonable, especially given you're only licensed to carry concealed.

I'm a bit surprised though about the "invites more aholes" bit, though. If a gun is supposed to reduce the amount of conflict on the road and de-escalate encounters, I'd think that most people (especially on bikes) would want that gun front and center so drivers would think twice about harassing or cutting them too close, as lethal encounters post-facto off the bike are so rare compared to getting killed by getting hit by the car or by an aggressive driver that you're essentially taking the gun factor out of the equation completely in terms of reducing the most likely (by far) situations where you'll get killed while on a bike.

I'm a bit surprised though about the "invites more aholes" bit, though. If a gun is supposed to reduce the amount of conflict on the road and de-escalate encounters, I'd think that most people (especially on bikes) would want that gun front and center so drivers would think twice about harassing or cutting them too close, as lethal encounters post-facto off the bike are so rare compared to getting killed by getting hit by the car or by an aggressive driver that you're essentially taking the gun factor out of the equation completely in terms of reducing the most likely (by far) situations where you'll get killed while on a bike.

I can see it now - X-Lab or Profile coming out with a carbon fiber gun mount for the handle bars. Perfect! :)

I guess it would be too much to ask for motorists to just respect the safety and lives of others who share the road with them, and abide by the rules of the road.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

x-lab 'cannon wing' has a ring to it. Light, carbon fibre, aero, can even mount between the sonic/turbo wing chimp cages. Has handy attachments on it for the air strykes and x-nut.

This is exactly my experience as a former serviceman. I don't want to go near weapons any more. No thanks.

Of course they're not scared, they're criminal thugs.

david,

In the US our military often carries firearms in a condition 1 state with a round chambered, safety on and ready to fire. It's not nearly the danger you make it sound in your military experience. I carried in condition 1 for years with no issues. Most firearms accidents are due to a lack of training and intelligence. The same lack of intelligence that can get you killed in any number of ways.

I've never even had to point a firearm at a human being much less use one to defend anything. I don't think being prepared to do so if necessary is such an evil thing though. Firearms are not evil, governments are evil. Look at what Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Polpot did right after they disarmed their populations.

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You will remain the same person, before, during and after the race. So the result, no matter how important, will not define you. The journey is what matters. ~ Chrissie W.

Couldn't Have Said It Better...

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Aw, quit being such a killjoy! It feels so good to look down your nose at others, doesn't it? I'm better than you because you believe differently; my country's better than yours, blah, blah, blah. There has yet to be one iota of effort to understand what may not be one's point of view here. No surprises there.

Haters--feel free to live in a country/state/city that supports your worldview. And if someone asks a pragmatic question related to something you don't practice, feel free to leave it the frick alone.

Packers--On the occasions that I pack, I use a "Merlin Pack" with the gun inside a freezer bag to prevent sweat damage. If I needed it, which, thank God I almost undoubtedly won't, I could have it out in seconds. And the ONLY occasion for that would be an otherwise unavoidable threat of grave bodily harm to myself or another innocent. NOT to intimidate dangerous asshole drivers, or anyone, for that matter. ONLY TO SAVE A LIFE.


Me too, all of the above. And I worked with gang kids before med school. One of whom got ahold of my home address. . . That was the first time it crossed my mind that I might want to own a gun. Later, I was in med school in Cincinnati, OH during the riots, with my wife and then 15 month-old. I was glad I'd already thought the gun ownership thing through and purchased. Granted, this is not the reality of day to day life, but there are perfectly legit reasons why a rational person would conclude that CCW is both a viable and reasonable option. A friend of mine who was a SWAT MD concurred that not only was there danger afoot, but no help. A couple of funky interactions on early AM runs with late night gangsters and partyers made me contemplate carrying during some runs/bikes.
Hey, feel free NOT to carry. Doesn't matter to me.

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Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

Not getting in the gun discussion BUT I would NEVER move because someone wanted to take my freedom away. You said move if you were not safe, when does the running from this problem stop.

Excellent post and I totally agree. To each his own choice. It's not only so called "shitholes" that one has to worry. People have been targeted by the white pickups both in Clermont FL and Madison, WI. While not looking for trouble, being naive is to invite issues.

I think it's sad that a school shooting by a madman has turned into a nationwide debate on guns, where the true issue on the lack of help for mental issues goes untouched.

I definitely agree that CC is a good thing when riding remote areas at times. Beretta Tomcat is a small but effective choice.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

My first post in this thread - amusing reading for sure.

Remember, this is a triathlon forum and the demographics of mostly white, middle to upper class individuals living in supposed "nice" areas.

The posters simply say "move" if you feel unsafe, yet most of the world from areas in the middle east, latin america, southern asia or most of central africa simply can not.

Yes, the US has an odd love affair with guns - most boys played with them as toys since birth, cowboys and indians, etc. Definitely part of our culture. Trying to rationalize it any other way sounds ridiculous to most non Americans, but that is what makes us unique and there is no place on earth I'd rather live and I've put my life on the line saying so (well, the Mrs. and I sure love the south of France) ;-)

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

We have plenty of guns in circulation in Canada as well, about 1/3 as many per capita. In smaller towns where hunting is popular I'm sure the per capita ownership rate is similar to the US.

Most Canadians also have the right to bare arms and to bear arms. Bad guys shoot each other around here but they mostly keep it amongst themselves and leave the rest of us alone.

I've traveled to most US states and never recall feeling less safe than in Canada. Although I wouldn't go running though parts of Washington DC.

People that feel the need to run with guns in the US could use all the same justifications to carry in Canada.

I'm so glad I don't live in the US. What an Fd up country.

Arguing about how you shouldn't change an amendment to a constitution. An amendment. An outdated amendment designed as a check on the federal government by the states nothing to do with individuals rights. Why is it that Canadians better understand the US constitution than Americans?


Along the way the US "democracy" has deteriorated into even more of a joke where money and special interest runs everything. Yet people don't seem to notice or care. You can't have a proper debate about the merits of gun control because all the politicians have been bought and paid for by the NRA. There was an interesting article on Bloomberg last week on how the NRA had suppressed studies on the effectiveness of gun control because obviously it works. I'm not sure why you think you should be focusing on loosing your "right" to arms? Wake the fuck up. You can have all guns in the world (you almost do), it isn't going to make you safe or stop the people from loosing all control over the policies of "your" governments.


Governments don't have to be bad. But when they are sold to the highest bidder, you might not get the optimal results.


I think the Americans' love of their country is a bit like Whitney's love for Bobby Brown.

Wow, I think I just vomited a bit. Your (stikman) uninformed response (paragraph 2) is so typical of the anti-gunners. Can we get back to the OP's topic already?

OP: I have not carried while training, but if I lived in an area that I felt threatened I wouldn't hesitate to. And I suppose my only worry would be crashing on the bike...wouldn't want to risk scuffing one of my guns;-)

I knew several who carried because of the pit bulls in rural Tennessee. I went so far as to get a permit but I never purchased a gun. I have young children and was more frightened of my children being injured or worse than I was with the pit bulls.

I do carry pepper spray and have used it on more than one dog.

I support the 2nd amendment but for me personally a handgun is not the best solution.

That is an interesting opinion Mike. Thanks for your comments. Awesome how the "rest of the world" knows about Whitney/Brown, the NRA, lobbyists, and Bloomberg.

I'll be sure to make note of them.

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

I love this idea. What city was the training in? Do you remember what brand of flashlight the instructor recommended?

Good grief, where do you live. I've read one or two stories about women being abducted, but thankfully I've never personally known anyone, male or female, who has been abducted and killed while running, biking, or anything else.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

I don't think so. First, that Hell Fire missile would have to be launched by an American against an American. Sure, if I'm holed up with 100 loyal followers who look to me as a messiah in some place like, say Waco, then that might very well be the way that scenario ends (or something equally as fatalistic). But the government engaging in open warfare against its citizenry (as is currently taking place in Syria) is another story altogether. I would venture to guess most of our good and loyal troops would not engage in that behavior but would join the "resistance" in a civil war scenario.

Further, there are over 300 million people in the US. There are estimated to be at least 270 million guns in the US owned by private citizens. I'd say that probably makes for about 100 million armed homes(but that is a WAG estimate). For the most part, the government does not know where these guns are right now. Those numbers would make any tactician pause. The US military only has about 3 million guns and all the combined police forces have less than a million. There are only about 1.5 million active duty military out there.

I'm not suggesting that any of this is even conceivable to our modern way of thought. Civil war, in America, really? That is not the point. The point is that the intended purpose of the 2nd amendment was not to protect a man's right to defend his family from intruders. Of course, no one 200 years ago EVER questioned that right. The point was to place the ultimate check on civil authority in the hands of the people. If the 2nd amendment protected anything, it protected the right to right to own the same types of weapons as the government. In 1934, when the Feds passed the National Firearms Act requiring the registration of all machine guns they did so through a revenue measure ($200 transfer tax). That legislation and that $200 transfer tax still exist today. In 1934, EVERYBODY knew you could not simply BAN machine guns, you could only regulate them through a tax. Of course, by 1986 they figured, hell ya, you can ban a machine gun and they outlawed them all (except grandfathered the lawfully registered ones - today, a $700 M-16, which is lawfully registered and transferable is worth about $20,000 due to the laws of supply and demand).

Clearly, time effects how we view our protected liberties and what reasonable limitations may be placed on them. Whether the 2nd amendment was a wise inclusion into the Bill of Rights is a question which should be openly debated. It would be refreshing if the debate did not needlessly devolve into ad hominem attacks of those who have no particular love for or trust of government. Those people would have been well understood and well represented at the constitutional convention and, but for the inclusion of the 2nd amendment, there would be no constitution to ratify. It was something that the framers thought about pretty seriously and it was a deal breaker for them.

I think in light of any discussion on the reasonable limits of our 2nd amendment rights, we should look at the reasonable limits on our first amendment rights as it relates to violent messages. I'm not suggesting any causal connection here at all. Rather, I am suggesting there is a slippery slope and it may be easier to see when we discuss the issue of censorship to help insure our personal safety rather than when we discuss the issue of disarming the population.

What is unthinkable today is largely unthinkable because of the conditions that exist today, including the status of an armed population. If we were unarmed (and don't tell me about "sporting weapons, because that is not really what this discussion should be about) how many generations would it take before it would be concievable that the government could become tyrannical, only really controlled by a handful of wealthy families, and no longer accountable to "The People." I don't know, but if 'The People" are disarmed, the only thing keeping the government and whoever wields its power in check will be a piece of paper.

I sometimes run with a can of Pepper Spray. I have been bitten twice by dogs and it can be pretty spooky sometimes running at 5:00 am while it is still totally dark. I do not "carry" on my bike, even pepper spray. I am not paranoid about protecting myself and know I am most likely to be shot by one of my own firearms (for which I own more than my fair share to put it in the vernacular). That is why my firearms are well secured. That is also why, as my children grow, they are each learning to respect and use them. They are certainly much less dangerous (statistically speaking) than the automobiles they will be driving soon. OMG. I hope I can get them to respect the power of an automobile traveling at 50 MPH as easily as it is to get them to respect the power of a firearm.

(edited to actually answer the OP's question)

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Panabax

We’ve heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true.—Robert Wilensky

Hahahahahahaha...love it.