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Good time to buy Flo wheels?
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I see there's a sale on Flo wheels and just wondering if it's a good time to buy them now or is there a chance there will be a bigger sale around Black Friday? Won't use them until next year.
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [mediocreat3] [ In reply to ]
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Their shifted their pricing strategy this year from never discount to always discount 20%. So, only buy when on sale. This is their first year with the new pricing strategy, so only FLO knows what they will do if and when with deeper sales.
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [mediocreat3] [ In reply to ]
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As much as I like my FLO 30s and 60 rims, for value, I would likely buy Hed or Hunt today.
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [mediocreat3] [ In reply to ]
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I am not exactly sure how the pricing works these days and what wheels you are looking at, but for rim brake bikes you can't beat the HED Jets. I tried the Zipp 404s and sold them to go back to aluminum rims. I just have the standard rims, but there are a lot of reviewers that say something along the lines of "the brake track on the Jet Blacks will make you wonder why you would ever need disc brakes".
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
I am not exactly sure how the pricing works these days and what wheels you are looking at, but for rim brake bikes you can't beat the HED Jets. I tried the Zipp 404s and sold them to go back to aluminum rims. I just have the standard rims, but there are a lot of reviewers that say something along the lines of "the brake track on the Jet Blacks will make you wonder why you would ever need disc brakes".

Have you ever ridden disc brakes?
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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Have you ever ridden the Hed Jet Blacks?

***
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [M----n] [ In reply to ]
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Nope
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [mediocreat3] [ In reply to ]
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mediocreat3 wrote:
I see there's a sale on Flo wheels and just wondering if it's a good time to buy them now or is there a chance there will be a bigger sale around Black Friday? Won't use them until next year.
Had the same dilemma and bought a set of Hed Jet 6 (disc) wheels for my road bike because the price difference was very little (20% sale on HED wheels a few weeks ago). Now I also wanted a disc for my new TT bike and there the price difference was night and day - HED was twice as expensive vs a Flo disc with aluminum brake track. So I got the Flo.

One observation however - the shipping method sucks. It's free but it's so-called Fedex Smartpost which means the wheels that shipped 7 days ago will take (per current tracking status) will take a total of 14 days to arrive as they're randomly traveling across the country it seems. (Not that big of a deal except more handing only increases the chance of damage in shipping).
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:
I am not exactly sure how the pricing works these days and what wheels you are looking at, but for rim brake bikes you can't beat the HED Jets. I tried the Zipp 404s and sold them to go back to aluminum rims. I just have the standard rims, but there are a lot of reviewers that say something along the lines of "the brake track on the Jet Blacks will make you wonder why you would ever need disc brakes".


Have you ever ridden disc brakes?

Yup. I have three bikes with disc brakes. Two Shimano (ultegra) and one SRAM. They have good modulation and work well in the wet, but the SRAM had a piston seize in the middle of a 100 mile gravel race and the Ultegra has an annoying occasional tick or rattle I can't get fixed, so they haven't been braking Nirvana by any stretch of the imagination.

My current road (EPS Record) and TT (ETap Red) bikes are rim brake It would cost me a fortune to replace them with electronic/disc (~$8000 a piece for Ultegra/Force). Add $1500ish for a disc/disc wheel. Another $1000 for a 90mm deep TT front and replacing my Powertap hubs. Next time I upgrade, I am sure it will be disc brakes because that is the future, but replacing what I have now with comparable disc bikes would be at least $20,000. Granted neither of my bikes will stop as well in the wet, but I ride the trainer when it rains.

$1200 for a set of Jet 5 Blacks sound like a heck of deal if you get 98% of the functionality of a complete bike upgrade.
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [FatandSlow] [ In reply to ]
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FatandSlow wrote:
As much as I like my FLO 30s and 60 rims, for value, I would likely buy Hed or Hunt today.

As a UK resident I recently came across Hunt and am really interested in their wheels for a new bike build. On paper the rims look really good but are priced similarly to comparable rims so its not a surprise. What I can't figure out is whether the low price of the complete builds reflects the use of cheap hubs. All the wheels have own branded hubs and there is little information about their durability/quality. I think of hubs like bottom brackets. The super fancy options are totally unnecessary but I don't want to have to be servicing shot/creaking parts every 3-4 months. Dependable hubs are widely available and I would rather spend a bit more on something that just works rather than something that requires constant attention.
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [scott8888] [ In reply to ]
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scott8888 wrote:
What I can't figure out is whether the low price of the complete builds reflects the use of cheap hubs.

It doesn't take much money to get a reliable hub. Heck, even the adjustable cup-and-cone hubs used in wheels that go for $40 will usually endure a reasonable life, they just have a chance of pitting instantly and remaining rough forever.

Whether the hubs are reliable has little to do with wheel cost, and more to do with engineering sanity and compromization. Zipp has one of the more questionable hub reliability records out there, even though all their wheels are top dollar!
Last edited by: HTupolev: Oct 1, 19 1:57
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [FatandSlow] [ In reply to ]
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Of course the OP could buy my set of FLO 30's, currently for sale in the classifieds, for a very nice discount. Even if to use simply for training, as a nice compliment to any other race wheel.
Yes, shameless plug. Haha

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t_P7046191/#p7046191
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [caamano] [ In reply to ]
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Ask Hambini :)
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [mediocreat3] [ In reply to ]
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Swiss Side Hadron Classics are on sale for a song right now. Same rim as their more expensive "Ultimate" model, just a lower level hub (DT Swiss 370-based with stainless steel bearings instead of DT Swis 240-based with ceramic bearings) and spokes (DT Swiss Aero Comp J-bend vs DT Swiss Aerolite straight pull).

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [Mario S] [ In reply to ]
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Mario S wrote:
Ask Hambini :)

Post of the week! And it's only Tuesday...
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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Jet 5 Blacks from MBS is probably the best wheel value out there for a wheelset. To me, the nominal extra money (maybe $100) over a Flo set is worth it for the brake track. I very rarely ride in the wet, but in wet or dry, stopping matters to me. And, as long as I own rim brakes, I want to be sure I have excellent stopping power. When looking at discs, you can pick up a used Flo disc for maybe $400ish where HED might cost $200-$300 more for a non-black version and ~$500 for the black version. It is harder to justify the extra money that the HED costs for a disc.
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [HTupolev] [ In reply to ]
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HTupolev wrote:
scott8888 wrote:
What I can't figure out is whether the low price of the complete builds reflects the use of cheap hubs.

It doesn't take much money to get a reliable hub. Heck, even the adjustable cup-and-cone hubs used in wheels that go for $40 will usually endure a reasonable life, they just have a chance of pitting instantly and remaining rough forever.

Whether the hubs are reliable has little to do with wheel cost, and more to do with engineering sanity and compromization. Zipp has one of the more questionable hub reliability records out there, even though all their wheels are top dollar!

It really all comes down to how much 'optimization' people are willing to deal with from practical point of view. Some of the super high-end hubs, like the Tune, or some of the older Zipps were going for EVERY possible performance advantage - including weight - which means tiny-size bearings (often paired with non-contact seals and light grease for tiny fractions of rolling efficiency). The fine print is that they don't last... often requiring multiple bearing changes a year, which I know from experience. It's truly a design idea that's mimicking high performance cars i.e. Ferrari owners know a thing or three about high maintenance costs. Doesn't mean it's a bad hub (or car) - just has a very specific design intent.

I haven't used any of the newer Zipp hubs past about 2013 or so - but I've heard that they've increased bearing sizes (and hub weight) - which I think is a very smart choice for their average customer. Most people say they want every possible advantage, but what they really mean is that they want to buy some speed and good looks without increased hassle or maintenance costs.
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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gregk wrote:
HTupolev wrote:
scott8888 wrote:
What I can't figure out is whether the low price of the complete builds reflects the use of cheap hubs.

It doesn't take much money to get a reliable hub. Heck, even the adjustable cup-and-cone hubs used in wheels that go for $40 will usually endure a reasonable life, they just have a chance of pitting instantly and remaining rough forever.

Whether the hubs are reliable has little to do with wheel cost, and more to do with engineering sanity and compromization. Zipp has one of the more questionable hub reliability records out there, even though all their wheels are top dollar!


It really all comes down to how much 'optimization' people are willing to deal with from practical point of view. Some of the super high-end hubs, like the Tune, or some of the older Zipps were going for EVERY possible performance advantage - including weight - which means tiny-size bearings (often paired with non-contact seals and light grease for tiny fractions of rolling efficiency). The fine print is that they don't last... often requiring multiple bearing changes a year, which I know from experience. It's truly a design idea that's mimicking high performance cars i.e. Ferrari owners know a thing or three about high maintenance costs. Doesn't mean it's a bad hub (or car) - just has a very specific design intent.

I haven't used any of the newer Zipp hubs past about 2013 or so - but I've heard that they've increased bearing sizes (and hub weight) - which I think is a very smart choice for their average customer. Most people say they want every possible advantage, but what they really mean is that they want to buy some speed and good looks without increased hassle or maintenance costs.

A bit off the OP's question, but it would be cool to know something about the effect of grease on bearing life. If I remember correctly, the majority of the wattage savings of high-end bearings is more the grease and seal, rather than the really fancy bearing material. So a quality steal bearing, non-contact seal and something like the Ceramic Speed TT grease is about what you would get with the $500 Ceramic Speed bearings. Ceramic is more durable, so does the steal bearing life really suffer with the TT grease? Are the differences in wattage losses still measured in the 100th's of a watt?
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
gregk wrote:
HTupolev wrote:
scott8888 wrote:
What I can't figure out is whether the low price of the complete builds reflects the use of cheap hubs.

It doesn't take much money to get a reliable hub. Heck, even the adjustable cup-and-cone hubs used in wheels that go for $40 will usually endure a reasonable life, they just have a chance of pitting instantly and remaining rough forever.

Whether the hubs are reliable has little to do with wheel cost, and more to do with engineering sanity and compromization. Zipp has one of the more questionable hub reliability records out there, even though all their wheels are top dollar!


It really all comes down to how much 'optimization' people are willing to deal with from practical point of view. Some of the super high-end hubs, like the Tune, or some of the older Zipps were going for EVERY possible performance advantage - including weight - which means tiny-size bearings (often paired with non-contact seals and light grease for tiny fractions of rolling efficiency). The fine print is that they don't last... often requiring multiple bearing changes a year, which I know from experience. It's truly a design idea that's mimicking high performance cars i.e. Ferrari owners know a thing or three about high maintenance costs. Doesn't mean it's a bad hub (or car) - just has a very specific design intent.

I haven't used any of the newer Zipp hubs past about 2013 or so - but I've heard that they've increased bearing sizes (and hub weight) - which I think is a very smart choice for their average customer. Most people say they want every possible advantage, but what they really mean is that they want to buy some speed and good looks without increased hassle or maintenance costs.


A bit off the OP's question, but it would be cool to know something about the effect of grease on bearing life. If I remember correctly, the majority of the wattage savings of high-end bearings is more the grease and seal, rather than the really fancy bearing material. So a quality steal bearing, non-contact seal and something like the Ceramic Speed TT grease is about what you would get with the $500 Ceramic Speed bearings. Ceramic is more durable, so does the steal bearing life really suffer with the TT grease? Are the differences in wattage losses still measured in the 100th's of a watt?


I don't have any hard data on-hand, but I've seen/heard info over the years that backs this up (the part in bold above). Ceramic balls are chosen because they can be made super-DUPER round, compared to steel balls that can only be super round (technical terms here, obviously). That extra bit of duper roundness can gain you a little bit, but it's a ridiculously small amount. You can supercharge the gains, however, by going with light non-contact seals and using a small amount of thin grease or oil... and my experience with bearings tells me that this is actually where most of the gain lies (and even at that, we're talking something like a watt total for the whole she-bang). Give a spin to some of the Phil Wood extreme-version bearings with extra-heavy seals and thick grease (great for cyclocross or commuting), and you can actually feel a big difference with your fingers. We gave these to some of the cyclocross teams for training purposes circa 2007-2010, when I was managing Zipp athlete sponsorship.

The other fine print is that there is a wattage cost to a bearing that goes bad and is contaminated. Say you gain 0.8 watts by going ceramic (with light seals and grease)... people assume that their expensive bearings are at least as durable as cheap bearings, but they actually get dirt in them more quickly. I saw some data on it somewhere (wish I could remember), but it's also common sense that it's a net loss when that fancy bearing gets contaminated (i.e. you lose more than the 0.8 watts you gained).

You also said "Ceramic is more durable"... this is a 'yes and no'. Ceramic ball bearings (i.e. the loose balls inside a cartridge) are stronger than steel ball bearings - yes. But those ceramic balls are usually paired with steel or stainless steel races - a material that's softer than the ceramic ball bearings. Especially in the case of cheap ceramics that aren't perfectly round, the total system is less durable than an all-steel bearing, because the super hard ceramic balls (ha!) can chew up the comparatively softer races. So, a steel cartridge bearing shouldn't suffer any more with thin grease than a hybrid ceramic cartridge - and may be better off.
Last edited by: gregk: Jun 2, 21 10:43
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Was the 14 day free shipping from Flo or HED? Thinking of getting new front wheel but race is less than 3 weeks away.
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [Kenny Hines] [ In reply to ]
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Kenny Hines wrote:
Was the 14 day free shipping from Flo or HED? Thinking of getting new front wheel but race is less than 3 weeks away.
I would contact FLO directly about getting the wheels on time. When I bought my FLO wheels, I had a race on a deadline, and Chris made sure to get them to me on time. Ditto when I bought my HED wheels from My Bike Shop. They were excellent in direct communication.
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [mediocreat3] [ In reply to ]
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FYI...The standard (non-black) Hed Jet Wheels are now 15% off for the month of October. Price reduced on their website and local dealers should honor the price as well.
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [Kenny Hines] [ In reply to ]
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Kenny Hines wrote:
Was the 14 day free shipping from Flo or HED? Thinking of getting new front wheel but race is less than 3 weeks away.
That's from Flo. Website says 2-7 days but the reality appears to be much longer.
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks!

Also, I have now dealt with both HED and FLO customer service. Both are super helpful!
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Re: Good time to buy Flo wheels? [mediocreat3] [ In reply to ]
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Up to this point, they have always listed a 20% coupon code on their podcast. Can’t remember the code from the top of my head, but their podcast catalogue has a lot of good content. Even if you don’t end up buying FLO wheels or needing a coupon code the podcast is definitely worth checking out.
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