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Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55
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Back in my 20s I ran 17:40 and similar but I think I am not that far off now that I am 55. Yesterday I narrowly missed going sub 18 by hitting exactly 18:00 according to Strava and Zwift, but it wasn’t that I ran out of gas, I simply started too slow and did not push up fast enough.

2 weeks ago I raced a Zwift 5k with fellow STer Luke Ehgoetz and although I started even slower I ended up with an 18:01.

I felt great after both of these races and after that previous one I ran 27 miles two days after. It seemed each time when I raced I was able to push hard at the end but the time kept slipping away.

Basically I started at 5:57 pace and then up clicked each km by one click. Then after 3k, I up clicked at 3.5k, 3.75k, abc then starting at 4k every .1k. And I was not struggling.

So start maybe a bit faster and then right away up click every .5 until 3.5 any then faster and faster
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Super at 55 years old, and also considering you spent a decade+ being totally out of shape. This is all very inspiring. I hope to take my 5km down to 21.59 in the spring also in the 55-50 group. My last benchmark was 22:29 which was a big achivement after starting back too running last year after a 4 year hiatus.
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Totally out of shape for a decade is likely not very accurate, but not being in good shape for 6-7 years is true. But my volume has steadily gone up the last 3 years. And I try to balance endurance and speed
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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That's great! I am 56 now and I have been chasing sub 18:00 for a while. My best was 18:17, on a road race. I don't think time (age) is on my side anymore...
From what you say, seems that you are doing yours on a treadmill, right? If so, it's a bit different than a true road 5k.
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert wrote:
Totally out of shape for a decade is likely not very accurate, but not being in good shape for 6-7 years is true. But my volume has steadily gone up the last 3 years. And I try to balance endurance and speed

Hey on ST if you are not at race weight for at least 8 months per year, then it counts as totally out of shape (at least this is my excuse on Covid19 year) !!!
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert wrote:
Back in my 20s I ran 17:40 and similar but I think I am not that far off now that I am 55. Yesterday I narrowly missed going sub 18 by hitting exactly 18:00 according to Strava and Zwift, but it wasn’t that I ran out of gas, I simply started too slow and did not push up fast enough.

2 weeks ago I raced a Zwift 5k with fellow STer Luke Ehgoetz and although I started even slower I ended up with an 18:01.

I felt great after both of these races and after that previous one I ran 27 miles two days after. It seemed each time when I raced I was able to push hard at the end but the time kept slipping away.

Basically I started at 5:57 pace and then up clicked each km by one click. Then after 3k, I up clicked at 3.5k, 3.75k, abc then starting at 4k every .1k. And I was not struggling.

So start maybe a bit faster and then right away up click every .5 until 3.5 any then faster and faster

are you doing this on your treadmill at 1.0-1.5% gradient?
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Michel08] [ In reply to ]
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I ran 18:20 and 18:24 outside on a course where I had to do a 180 turn
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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Yes I usually have gradient up. But that is not the difference in my view. The advantage of a mill in my view is that you you are not blowing your wad early. And you can push harder and your body has to follow or fall
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert wrote:
Yes I usually have gradient up. But that is not the difference in my view. The advantage of a mill in my view is that you you are not blowing your wad early. And you can push harder and your body has to follow or fall

but that's what makes a 5k so fun...! (pink, or not pink, depends on how the last 5k went! ha)
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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i think that's pretty damned good. i ran a bunch in the 18:20s on the road when i was 54, and a 38:08 on the road. that's going to win either the 50+ or the 55+ most of the time. if you get down to, say, 17:45, and you're 55+, that's a very rare ability at that age. enjoy it while you can ;-)

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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True. I love catching folks who started too hard. :-)

My biggest enemy (and friend) his year has been total load. With almost 80 miles of running a week and 160 miles of cycling average a week. For non of these 5k events this year I was ever decently rested / fresh. Right now I am tapering for a 12 hour race on December 12, and I pulled the volume back some, but the intensity up. This week 2 hard structured bike workouts, 1 structured run workout and this 5k race yesterday in addition to 2500 yards of swimming and 35 miles of cycling that day.
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Those are strong times. Its amazing how fast some of the times over 50 are with 55 year old 10K world best of 31 mins by Martin Fiz and Ed Whitlock running 37 min 10K at age 73. It does seem that fast times are still possible over 50 but very athletes care anymore or want to or can compete due to injuries anymore over 50 so its a very limited field to compete against.
Last edited by: pokey: Dec 4, 20 7:52
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [pokey] [ In reply to ]
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pokey wrote:
Those are strong times. Its amazing how fast some of the times over 50 are with 55 year old 10K world best of 31 mins by Martin Fiz and Ed Whitlock running 37 min 10K at age 73. It does seem that fast times are still possible over 50 but very athletes care anymore or want to or can compete due to injuries anymore over 50 so its a very limited field to compete against.

It's def not that they don't care anymore, it's just that arthritis and other health issues take them out before they can even compete at that level.

The WAVA tables for age-adjusted performance are useful, but ONLY if you are one of the lucky ones at 50+ to not be prematurely felled by arthritis (super common, essentially expected) or other illness (like cancer, etc) before you can achieve your goal. Then there's also the other huge age-related limiter than young people totally overlook, which is increased sleep disruption. Doesn't happen to everyone, but I'd wager to say at least the majority of 40+ yr olds have significantly disrupted sleep, compared to their 25 year old selves. It's actually my main limiter, despite sleep studies, CPAP,etc.
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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This post is very inspiring, thanks.

My PB 5k in college as a runner was 15:37 and remember going under 16 often.
30 years later
I just started training again 18 months ago for triathlon running low volume 2-3 days a week.

I can run under 20 minutes, but feel running under 18 would take a full time dedication block of months of track and speed work. Also eliminating most of bike and swims.

Its crazy how much VO2 is lost as we age and how hard it is to build it up. Compounding the issue is injury and recovery times.
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [pokey] [ In reply to ]
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I am mostly running / racing longer trail races now with 20 to 30km being my sweet spot, but have done events as long as 50 miles and placed well overall in all of them. I am however lucky that I have a nice treadmill at home, plus a super nice workout room where it doesn't matter at what time I run or ride. Plus I currently have the luxury to train more than most folks my age.

But I have to be careful, I tore my left meniscus twice and have dealt with various injuries that started in my mid 40s. Prior to that nothing. Now I make sure that I balance out my training. Most of my cycling is running recovery, and when I run I avoid running on the streets.

My training is also smarter now. 2 to 3 high intensity workouts a week, and the rest reasonably mellow. That has allowed me to pretty much negative split any race I have done recently. That will actually also be my goal for Boston, where the terrain will be unfavorable to that quest.
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Looking to start a comeback as well after a layoff. Can you give some input on how you built back up. Treadmill times now very slow. I. am trying to ignore pace and memories of the glory days.
Thanks
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [smallhips] [ In reply to ]
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I ran 17:46 in 1999 at age 34 and had a couple more sub 18 around that time. But back then I was mostly focused on cycling and only ran here and there.
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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great job. there are plenty fit >50 guys out there but this is very impressive. I didn't start running until i got into my 40s. needed to lose weight and get in shape. was always an athlete but never a runner. did my first 10K in 2012 and improved a bit every year all the way down to 40:04, just missed <40. it was hilly course so there's that. then last year at 50 I did crack 19, with an 18:51 and win in local July 4th 5K. that hurt worse than any other physical activity and I've completed 7 IMs. just so hard to go fast. wish i had some of that track background muscle memory. I think it would take quite a bit of training to try to go <18 at this point but good to know it's doable.
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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I wouldn't say that your story is inspiring. I'd say it is sobering! Doing 3 speed sessions a week - zone 4/5 for me, would wind up in a lot of broken parts, not running, and getting fat. At 57, I'm trying to find that sweet spot of intensity versus duration. I do LOTS of hills at varying degrees on intensity (the t/mill is great for this) but I am unconvinced that hill training has any physical adaptive value. I think it does have some mental value. Experimenting this season with my modified version of the 100 runs challenge. Suspect I would do a 21 5 k right now.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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I think your issue is pacing, not fitness. You clearly have the fitness to run sub 18, which is great for your age. I have a close friend who is 55 and runs close to 16:30 for 5k. He never runs the first mile slower than goal pace. He always goes out with the leaders in his age group, or anyone over 50, and tries to hang out. That seems to work out really well for him. 10k is a different story.

I think if you tried to run 5:48 pace from the start, you will finish comfortably under 18. Good job running that well at our age.
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Pieman] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with you and have cautiously approached the pacing. Plan is to run another on December 21 with more focus and other fast runners around.

In that 5k I was 9th to start with but moved to 5th quickly and then reeled in all but one - who was well out of reach
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert, that's a smokin pace. You are blessed to be able to run at that speed and also to be able to do 3 quality sessions per week at 55. Are you swimming and biking too? I couldn't keep SB going if I was going to put in that amount of running and 3 hard work run sessions per week.

At 58, I can manage 1 quality speed session per week, I could maybe add a second hard work out but I would have to back off the biking to do so. And since I started running and endurance sports at a late age of 47, I have no young age PRs to compare. I am just trying to hang on to my current speed as long as I can and not get injured. 5K PR 20:40 4 years ago. Ran a 21:01 on same course last week, injury free, so I'm satisfied.

As others have said, keep at it, you'll wiggle your way to sub 18. Find yourself a flat outdoor 5K with no 180 turns.

Tim Shea

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Blog: https://swimbikerunrinserepeat.wordpress.com
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [plant] [ In reply to ]
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plant wrote:
Looking to start a comeback as well after a layoff. Can you give some input on how you built back up. Treadmill times now very slow. I. am trying to ignore pace and memories of the glory days.
Thanks


I had basically quit running and given up all hope of running at exactly this time in 2018. I had a phone call with slowman about 100/100 and he asked me if I wanted to run it and I said, the entire running this is demoralizing because every time I try, after 5-10 steps my left leg curls up in an uncontrollable cramp (like a calf cramp when yuo are paying soccer). This was from a disc injury in 2015. I had pretty well become a full time swimmer because that is all I could do. In 2018 I did my first swim races and then things were improving and I just got back into biking and got run over by a bus literally 3 weeks after getting on the bike.....

....so I spent the summer of 2018 just recovering from that, but after that call with slowman he said, "I bet your running days are not over", so I said, "OK, let me use 100/100 as 100 days of rehab" Maybe I can try to shuffle at 4 mph on the treadmill without a leg spasm every 15 seconds and I can go from there and maybe if I can get this stupid body under control, I can build up to a 2 min run, then 2x2min, then 3x2min....and so on with walking breaks holding the rails on the treadmill.

So I started with 10x15 seconds on, 15 seconds walking holding the rails, then 10x30 on 30 off. This got me up to 10 minutes total motion with 5 min jogging at 4 mph (which is a fast walk)....then 10 min session 2x per day. then 1 min on, 1 min off for 10 min 2x per day....then I increased it to 4.5mph, then the 10 min session became 15 min twice a day. Then some of the 1 min stretches I "surged" to 5 mph.....then I extended some to 2 min and went 2 min on, 30 seconds off....then eventually I did some 20 min sessions. By the last 4 weeks of 100/100, I was doing 30 min sessions still 2 min on/30 min off, then I went for 5 min on 30 seconds off, then added surges to 6 mph....eventually I got to 3x10 min on, 1 min off and then I brought speed up from 4.5 mph gradually to 6mph (when it felt like I was jogging).

In the last week of 100/100 2019 I ran 30 minutes outdoors without stopping.

1 month later I was on business in Berlin wiht no pool access and ran every day 45-60 min (keep in mind, I was fit from swimming 1200km per year). By July I did my first Olympic tri and did 5 more during the summer splitting between 51 and 48 minutes for 10km for all of them (at age of 54) and I won our local tri series in my age group (thanks to the swim and a bike of a 25 year old). By last fall I had not broken 24 minutes in the 5km yet (even though I did 48.xx 10km split in tris....issue was not cardio, just applying force with my bad body parts). By the end of summer of 2019, I was running 40-55km per week and off that I did a half IM (finished second in 50-54 age group as a 54 year old) again thanks to swim and bike....my run was 1:53)

Anyway, that's the story. Herbert has been encouraging me on the sidelines with my run progressing. Now I am down to 22.29 and next week I will have crossed he 3000km running point for the year, my most running ever in 15 years.

I believe I can get my 5km below 22 and my Olympic tri split to 45 min and half IM split down to 1:45 on the trajectory I am on. I am also 8 lbs over my race weight with all the swim and weights I am doing. Just shaving down 5 lbs will help me a lot on run speed.

Really I am itching to do our local Olympic tris next year (swim heavy vs half IM) because my swim is very strong now as is my bike and my run will be solid for 55-59
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Dec 4, 20 11:55
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [IL2tri] [ In reply to ]
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I try to do 2 hard runs and never more than 3 (2 workouts and a race) and sometimes just 1

I bike on average 160 miles a week (so far just under 6,000 miles) and swim 2 times a week, usually 3 times a week
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Re: Going sub 18 in a 5k at 55 [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Sub 18 at 55 is pretty friggen good!

Then there is this other level - pretty mind blowing on several levels:

https://www.runnersworld.com/...rathon-world-record/

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