Does he need the money, or can his parents (other people) support him financially.

Because, he is 23 minutes slower then the pro's and he is not a fast swimmer. So it will take a long time to close those gaps and you have to be a top pro to earn money (ask Thomas).

But if he does not need the money, why not...

Shoot me a message if you want to chat about my decision to race pro this year. Yesterday was my first pro race and let me tell you that was something else. The swim is massive. I missed the big group at the turn but wasn't too worried since I had a few guys around me but that quickly ended. But the train of 15 guys put out some solid efforts and were rolling. I learned a lot yesterday and hopefully I can make some adjustments for my next race. But having my first pro race with that caliber of a field was fun and very humbling.

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Twitter - Instagram

Go pro. Clearly he is better than the rest of the age groupers. If this is a consistent result then why spend it in the AGers? If he gets 20th in pro he will be making as much money as he will with 1st in age group all around. Makes no difference - just better talent to race against. Might push him to be better or might destroy his morale; depends who he is as a person.

Seth R?

Probably shouldn't. Get more experience. Especially looking at some of his previous results like WC 70.3 last year.

Serious question but, why not? I mean as long as he knows he won't be competitive he could save money on registration signing up for his pro license, right? He has a good run but will get buried on the swim/bike.

One of the biggest things that AG --> PRO athletes do not take into consider when it comes to race dynamics (of course the swim is mentioned above) is ...

1) If you do miss the swim, the possibility of riding by yourself the entire time
-- and if you do have athletes around
2) The inability to slipstream to pass on the bike in the pro race ...

With that mentioned, times / effort expended take a hot when you move up

In the end it depends on his goals racing as a "pro" ... unless he has room to alter his training to improve swim / bike he may find is race times actually suffer slightly with different race dynamics / rules

EDIT ... should add, he still has time to improve because of his age but at some point he has to take the leap of faith .. with a plan

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

This all depends on his goals.

Why does he do the sport? If it's for self improvement, getting better everyday, and following the process, then he's clearly not fast enough. If he races > 2-3x ironman 70.3 races a year or > 1 ironman a year, it might be worthwhile to race pro for the sake of financial savings, since it's ~900$ to race as many pro ironman races per year. But if he's racing less, then just compete as an AG, makes no difference.

If he's doing the sport for the fame and recognition, go ahead and race pro. His social media will blow up for a bit, impressing the people who are ignorant on the subject. But it won't help him improve.

My two cents. His swim isn't where it needs to be to mix it up in the pro race and thus I would recommend he sticks to the amateur ranks and continue to develop as an athlete. His result is good for at least this calendar year so he doesn't need to decide right now. Happy to provide more details but if it was me or my athlete, I would tell them to keep developing and working on that swim.

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Thanks for the recommendation. I did respond below fwiw. Also fwiw, there are very few pro athletes who don't have at least at least one side gig. My guess is that in the next few years there will be even less.

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As a middle/back of the pack pro I can shed some light. I decided to take a pro card because I love head to head racing, which is getting harder to find in AG racing. Also, I felt quite uneasy in a couple of 70.3's when I started in one of the last waves and had to pass hundreds of other athletes on the bike.

In reality my contribution to the pro race is as swim start photo filler, I don't see the tops guys again after the gun goes off. But, in every race I've done I've had guys to race against. I don't rely on triathlon to support myself (and given my results just as well!), but the few times I've managed to earn a paycheque it's been pretty awesome. Also, I was never drawn to 70.3WC or Kona (mostly because of drafting issues), and never took slots of either as an AGer, so I didn't have that to consider. In my experience if you're motivated by competition then taking a pro card can be a good idea, but if you're motivated by KQ/results/podiums/etc your athlete may want to hold off.

FYI I 'earned' my elite card at Ironman Canada in 2015 and took it at the start of 2017.

Not in any great detail but can you talk about some of the learning points and adjustments you will make to prepare for your next race. Which one will that be btw?

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Thank you all for the good advice, what I has hoping for. Initially I was super excited for him to qualify for pro card, but got to thinking how it would likely be best to develop a bit more (obviously in the end its his call what he does). His swim and bike for sure need some substantial improvement (run to for that matter) to mix it up in pro races. Will be interesting to see how he progresses regardless of his decision, things really have started to come together for him.

Take it. Why not... Ultimately, it's just sport and we do it because we love it so there's no point having regrets. You never know when a change in life circumstances could mean the opportunity goes missing.

I'm firmly only a middle of the pack pro but had a few semi decent results and a couple of 70.3 bike course records to boot. Racing in the pro field will only drive him to newer heights if he can accept that he likely won't be at the pointy end right away. No need to give up the day job just yet, but why not give it a crack.

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Coach at Scientific Triathlon
http://www.scientifictriathlon.com

Well first off I knew that the swim is important to get into a group but I wasn't confident in my swim fitness to really mix it up. And that is one mistake I made. I started off in the back to the left to try to find feet. If I were to know that I was about a minute down to the big group I would have tried to get in that group. I just had no clue what my fitness was at that level but when I realized I was swimming with Matt Russell and not pushing it crazy hard I knew I was swimming well.

But the biggest thing is just how fast the guys in a big group can go. And how many watts they have to push. Talked to another pro who made that group but got popped at mile 30 said he was averaging 350-370 for a lot of that time. I don't think I would have been able to stay with that too long but even if I tried for the first 10-15 miles it would have put me ahead of where I was then I could have maybe ridden with a few others who got dropped or finished the bike at my pace.

I was really pissed about my bike split and thought I ran like crap because it felt painful, and was slower than I wanted, but then looking back I had the 13th best run split and a much better swim than I think I had in me. That course, to me, was nothing like it looked like on paper.

So moving forward I think I will have more confidence in my ability to mix it up in the swim then hope to hang on a bike group for as long as I can without completely trashing my legs and killing them for the run.

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Take it... He can post on social media and brag how they are pro. Like many he can swim solo way off the back, bike solo way off the back and run solo you guessed it way off the back. Unless they have a goal, dedicated and willing to invest and sacrifice then it is pointless and from what I have seen leaves people mentally broken and pulling out of races because of how far they are behind until they ready.

Pro rides in a 70.3 can be like that on rolling courses in big groups. However, there is a lot of soft pedaling too in the 150-225 range. Again, just the nature of the courses and making sure you are 12m but not 13m. Nobody but Starky, Weiss, Sanders etc are pushing sustainable 350+ but there can be an awful lot of watts spent early. I think this is one great difference between pro and ag racing and why you tend to see a lot of poor runs among pro males. There are too many big power spikes and that is not a efficient to ride and then run.

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harsh but fair.

The top AGers in my area that have gone pro have not really done much. They've had some cool experiences, travelled and will have some great memories, but what is it they want to achieve? They won't any money, they won't win any races and they'll probably struggle mentally and physically. My mate who was fastest AGer at an Ironman (I don't want to divulge his name) was an hour slower than the pros. And he was training like a pro. He's just turned pro, but he's not going to get anywhere near these guys. So really the only benefit is he can say he is/was a professional triathlete. If I was in his position, I'd probably do the same, it would be pretty cool for a year, but yeah I can imagine going pro would leave a lot of people broken and cut short their triathlon careers.

Is he working? Paying reasonable tax?

If so hands down yes for tax advantages (depending on the various laws in your state etc)

Everyone has the absolute right to be an independent contractor or start their own business.

No laws stating that you have to be good at it😀

Maurice

What part are you from? It really is hard for any AGers to go pro and have success. By definition they are usually grinding their way to the top in most cases and only have so much ability to eek our further gains - the low fruit is gone. The real stars of the sport usually have skipped much of the AG experience and just kind of land pro right away. I think back to Gwen's first race, a local prize money race and she beat some pros and ran the fastest split of the day, male or female. Probably was one of her last AG races. When I think of AG athletes I have talked to and that were on the fence there are two that come to mind that I was like "yep, he is going to do well". One was Matt Hanson and the other was Clay Emge. It has been fun to watch and exciting to watch Matt progress and Clay went back to the AG ranks and just whoops up on everyone.

At the end of the day I was a grinder doing 10+ Ironmans as an amateur. What I remember most is racing in Kona an age-grouper and then being lucky enough to make it back as a pro. When you are growing up in the sport sitting on the trainer watch the NBC and you develop idols and then you literally line up on the same start line as them that is pretty surreal.

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Oh totally. I should have mentioned he also said when they hit hills they’d have to coast/slam on brakes to stay out of zone. So for anyone similar to me there’s the question of what’s the best race strategy? Try to stay with the pack but maybe kill run legs or back off and hope they don’t get too far ahead to run a few of them down?

I came off the bike in 30th I think and ended up passing 4 with a few more a minute further ahead I believe. It was a good strategy for me for my debut but as I race more I plan/hope to be able to make a pack and see how it goes.

Yesterday at the start of the run I wanted to quit because I thought I was being too selfish to wife and daughter giving the time to just be that far back, but now I want to race more to get more experience to see what I can put together.

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One of the things I like to look at is their strength and weaknesses. For me if you can’t swim in group at front (and I mean any of the front groups, whether front/chase 1, etc...just not off the back from the start) it’s going to be a long lonely day for them. But if you can swim and your run suffers you are atleast “in the game” longer.

I’m not much for one of these “your embarrassing the pro ranks” unless you totally got the pro card at some off the wall race (that's becoming less and less applicable these days). A quality coaching friend of mine who has coached a good amount of pros always sorta goes by “replicate it as AGer” for his rule on taking it or not. Then you atleast can showcase your ability on more than 1 occassion.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Part of your calculation for him is what kind of person is he? Is he prone to getting demoralized when he has a bad(or perceived bad) race? Or does it light a fire in him and he just works harder(and hopefully smarter)? If the former I would say wait and let him enjoy some more big successes in the small pond. It could be a very long time(if ever) that he has any real success in the big, bad ocean with all the sharks just waiting for lost minnows.

But like others have said, swimming is the most important thing right now with his bike/run, so make a break through there first and then go for it...

I also was wondering that same thing. I was second behind seth. This was my first 70.3 and took it a little too easy on the run. Im curious as to everyones thoughts as well. Only 22 so I know its early in life but im open to all feedback!

All comes down to your goals. The race is in the pack, the podium is in the pack, a top 10 is in the pack. That is something you just have to get used if you want to be there. The reality is there are very few guys who are strong enough break away from big groups like that in pro races and if you aren't strong enough to stay there you are going to lose big chunks of time on the bike. That is the one thing about pro racing, you just don't have other age-groupers to hide behind, slip-stream, and use as carrots. Out-of-site, out-of-mind is a term for a reason.

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