I always find it funny honestly. Here's the thing: People moan and complain when I don't review enough devices. People moan and complain when I don't review them fast enough. Some people moan and complain about the fact that reviews are too long. And then yet others say that I've missed all these things and that they weren't detailed enough.

And then people think that's going to be free. Seriously, it's not. I do everything I possibly can to remove bias. I don't take ads from companies I review (I go out of my way to block them). I ship products back to the companies after the review. I don't take the luxurious paid PR trips from companies that everyone else in the industry does (I pay my own way, every time). None of which most magazines tend to do, nor other review sites.

Can you support the site via Amazon and Clever Training? Yup. Do you have to? Nope.

But here's the thing: Ultimately, I'm not going to do this for free. While that's fine if you're reviewing one watch a year, and answer five questions a day - it's not practical when you get 100-300 e-mails and questions a day with everyone wanting an answer, plus reviewing products well beyond what any other review on the internet does...oh, and still having a full time day job.

As for GPS accuracy - I've published every FR920XT workout I've done, and sometime later tonight I'll have published all the raw workout files along with second/third device files from all those workouts. You're welcome to dig through those and see where things don't line up. And as much fun as it may be to go and find a short 400m route somewhere and measure distance on it - I continue to find that longer routes create more realistic accuracy representations. Which then opens up the Pandora's box of impossibility that comes with trying to both measure something and run with it on the same course the exact same way even though everything from day to arm swing and clouds are different. Thus why I've largely moved to having 2-4 devices at once and looking for agreement.

As for the most accurate GPS to date, again, I'm basing that on the fact that the tracks are near perfect on most of my runs (scary perfect), as well as the fact that it's agreeing with numerous other GPS devices. I appreciate that folks want to go out with a wheel (which I have two of), but there's a lot of aspects where that actually breaks down from a practical standpoint. If you run with a wheel, it skips, thus over time causing distance issues. If you bike with a wheel, that's fine, but that doesn't get you either the speed or the arm-swing or human body blockage. If you walk the course with a wheel and then go back and re-run it, it's incredibly difficult for all but the shortest of courses to get the exact same track repeatedly.

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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

In my case, I rode a bunch of winding loops in the woods where gps accuracy is reduced and I rode the loops several times with two devices. I've always seen significant offsets from one loop to the other in the woods so pretty clear the accuracy isn't that great in that situation. One device had consistently larger offsets between each loop than the other. Repeatable, consistent and the device with the closer match between each loop always came up with a longer distance as the less accurate device missed more of the small winding turns. Works for me. I would never just go for a run or ride a loop and assume that one device was more accurate than the other without some clear indication of where the error was coming from. Given that I find accuracy is generally fine when the device has an unobstructed view of the sky, it's not unreasonable to test the device in precisely the kind of situation in which accuracy is reduced. My point is that there are ways of measuring gps accuracy that aren't that hard.

Whether you like the reviews over at dcrainmaker.com or not, at least you know where he is coming from. Which is more than can be said for some of the negative posts you read about the devices, whatever the brand, in forums.

As far as accuracy is concerned, any of these devices that get better than 15 m accuracy (three metres with WAAS) that Garmin suggest (http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/) is good. In reality I've found better than 5m in clear sky conditions without WAAS on the 910XT.

As an aside, I've just done a bit of work for a pilot study using a number of 910XTs, 310XTs and one FR10. We walked a wheel 3 times around a track that was 2750 m long and essentially free of any overhead obstructions. Without exception, very GPS reading was between 2% and 4% above this. We felt that there should have been a range of readings above and below the wheel measured distance - normal distribution and all that.

Does this indicate that the data is being manipulated to compensate for the inherent lack of precision in the devices? We don't know and it was not a focal point of the study - we were looking at the data flow more than anything else. It was only a small study using a convenience sample and there were only 60 activities and it was only Garmin devices. However, the results have given us some food for thought and we are looking now at a larger study using a wider range of devices.

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

+1

Ray does a great job and a great service to the community in his reviews. He is quite transparent, that he receives nothing from the manufacturers and returns all devices. I don't think anyone out there has used and evaluated more devices that Ray, if he says it does something the best I take his word for it. This is not a full time gig for him, he does this one the side for fun. If you look at the extent of his reviews I'll bet he makes way, way less than he does at his day job. I have sent many people to his site and encourage them to use his click through to Amazon as I have done.

I'm glad you paired with Clever Training. That saved me $50 on my soon to be coming 920xt. The only reason I purchased it was due to your review. I don't think most people would care if you got free units from Garmin as long as your reviews are honest, so that is your personal decision to keep a distance from the manufacturer.

It doesn't really matter if they are honest, the appearance of honesty is also important. Those that will be inclined not to trust Ray would use the appearance of impropriety to bash him further.
(In no way suggestion that Ray is dishonest)

With the accuracy and the battery life trade-off, can in the same workout the watch go from the super 1s tracking to the more battery friendly "smarttrac"? This would make using it for a 100 miler possible if you knew for like 15 miles the track was gonna be pretty straight you could turn it to smart-trac and save some battery life in the hopes of it lasting over the 24 hour total?

Not within the same workout, as it's set on the activity profile.

Fwiw, and not that it helps you're specific case, but others might be interested...You can do this on a mulitsport profile, and have different recording rates per each activity profile.

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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

Ditto. I couldn't find something on his web site and posted here and he quickly sent me in the right direction. His reviews are fabulous for consumers of technical triathlon/running/swimming/biking products. Since no one here pays for his insights, I'd say the value of his reviews are at least above zero. ;) Probably quite a bit higher.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

i wasn't saying you're dishonest or a bad person. i get it that you don't need to do this for free. certainly don't owe any of us anything. all i've said is that you make money - no idea how much or even if you're break even - and that inherently creates bias. it's fine for people to be okay with that fact but people ought to have open eyes.

I think is funny is that people argue that your partnership with clever training removes *any* bias. one could argue that it makes you indifferent to specific manufacturers but it does mean that you benefit from the sale of products. here's an analogy. Theoretically, Charles Schwab doesn't care if you buy AAPL, GOOG, or any other specific stock. But no one would deny that they want you buying stocks (yes, they make money from selling stocks, but no one makes money in a bear market). the virtuous cycle of stocks going up, people making money and buying more stocks is a reliable formula. inherently, though, the desire for volume results in bias and certainly in favor of the biggest companies becaue those are the ones that can support the trading volume needed to make good money. no one hear would say that Schwab doesn't have bias but at the end of the day, they have essentially the same economic interest.

BTW, I read the site, like your reviews, but accept them for what they are. you admirably admit you're not doing this for free yet people will still say you're doing some kind of "service." then again we live in a country in which people just voted to legalize pot, raise the minimum wage AND Republican representation...

Have you ever spent so much time doing something that's for free (maybe 50% of your day), for many years...and still remained married?

I plan on using it for a 100. Really do not see the issue of just 1 min for the whole thing. At that pace it would still be recording at every 122 yards. I am fine with that, especially in the terrain that most Ultra's are done..........Oh, 24 for an Ultra is a sweet time.

So what are you really saying? You say youread the reviews and take them for what they are. So a simple question, do you trust them or not?

As someone who bought a V800, is there a general consensus as to wether or not the 920 is worth selling the V800 for?

I have no idea. For me I did not have a use for all the bluetooth, and personally think hr while swimming is not relevent. .....but that is just me.

That's what most triathles do tho... Who cares if DCR is doing it for free or not, seriously who cares! His reviews are phenomenal and that's the bottom line. We get to read his reviews for free and we should be thankful for that.

If you can sell the V800

Had my first error with the 920XT today. Was swimming and the device stopped counting distance. I thought it was user error and I left it in rest mode or something. I tried to correct distance with "Drill Mode" and it wouldn't even add that distance in. I then started swimming again and it still wasn't working. Stopped and "saved" the device and it just got stuck on "saving". It just stayed there with the bar moving like it was thinking. After about 10minutes (I kept swimming while it was doing its thing) I just restarted it by holding down the power button for about 20secs. The file was actually saved, so I didn't lose the data.

This is the first "error" I have had with the device and I have been using it for about 4 weeks now.

- I updated the newest firmware a few days ago.............

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Which is why I'll wait a few months until they get all the bugs out.....

My 910xt probably has 3 months of life in it. ;)

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Well the 910XT is far from perfect when it comes to swimming. I would get a 920XT as soon as you can, the swim mode enhancements and the live tracking alone are worth dealing with a "few bugs", mind you, I said in 4 weeks this is the only problem I have had. I have my 910XT still, but have not used it since.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

I also have 920 for 4 weeks. So far so good, zero problems!

I have used the 910 since in came out in 2012. I swim 5 days a week. I have never had my swim off, ever.

Depends what you want.

The battle of "Most features" has clearly been won by Garmin. No question.

What do you want the watch for?
How reliable do you care it is?
Do you want to wear it as a daily tracker, and do you care what it looks like?

I would think for most triathletes that the 920xt would be preferable...

But wait until a lot of 920xt are released and see if there is bitching and moaning. Honestly, there is a lot of bitching about the V800, but some people are comparing it to the almost mythical 920xt which most of us haven't used yet. Kind of like comparing your girlfriend to some mythical girl you have never met, but seen in a movie lol...

For me, personally the biggest point against the Polar is there incredible lack of software development and their slowness in delivering information to customers.
The biggest issue with the 920xt is that I don't think I would ever wear a watch that "Clownish" at work, but if wearing it all the time doesn't matter, I would go Garmin.

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Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!

I can't wait for my 920XT. My 910 has been acting funny for months now.

On a recent 3.7 mile run, I apparently gained 62,720 ft of elevation.

On a positive note, I look like a beast on my Garmin connect profile lol. I should be smashing Kilian Jornet and Sage Canday at MUT!

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"Just don’t abandon everything you’ve ever learned because of something someone said on the internet." - Eric McGinnis

Ray,

This is what I was talking about on the podcast. Jackasses like this would infuriate me. You've done everything imaginable to be as unbiased as possible. How you keep your composure is beyond me. Is there a away for you to block ingrates like this from using your site?

Denali,

What the fuck does this have to do with pot, minimum wage and republicans? You strike me as the type of person that just likes to type.

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